Merchants : how to (get 20,000 florins a turn)

[Vlad The Impaler]

i tried to use a merchant. as is written in the description he must travel to distant lands and increase commerc & stuff. i play as a spanish and i travel with my merchant to byzantium and then to russia but no town/city,castle , anything wanted to have any kind of interraction with my merchant. i tried with allied pt trade treaty factions but no result.
so, how the merchant could be used?

[Lusted]

You put them on a rescource and they start trading it, if you have more than 1 merchant on a type of rescource you get more cash.

[econ21]

Are merchants worth bothering with? The resources around England early on promised only 3-7 florins per turn - what's the upkeep of a merchant, 100 gold? Plus my merchant was "killed" by a French one early on, so I gave up on them. Any tips/experience from others?

[Maizel]

I think erchants are upkeep-free

[Debe2233]

While playing as Scotland (och aye and jimmy lad and so on and what not) i found the tin deposites in cornwall (Southwest Britan) to be worth about 38 per turn, whole not amazeing the amount goes up with the experience of the merchant (i was getting 70 odd at 4 merchant skill i think)

And i've "heard" you get more cash if you own more than 1 type of resource (there are two tin deposites in cornwall and one in ireland)

[Divine Wind]

Merchants cost 550, and their upkeep is 0.

So far playing as England (turn 88) I have around 6 merchants, all paired up in twos and sitting on the same resource in the same provinces. I have two in western france trading with wine, two in north east france trading with silk, and another two in HRE trading with iron. With each two im making about 60 - 90 florins a turn, depending on their level of experience.

I did have a guild in one of my cities that gave a bonus for two of my merchants (they both started on level four), I think it was the Theopalian (sp?) guild.

The best tradable goods ive found around England so far, is wine, tin, and silk.

[Rpkmann]

but is it worth getting merchants if they cost 550 and have to be replaced after they die?

[AlJabberwock]

but is it worth getting merchants if they cost 550 and have to be replaced after they die?

Heh, as an Economist, I find this thread compelling, but this question above is an interesting one that compels me to place another fly in the ointment of another thread...

If your merchant does not die quickly, the answer is clearly yes, so the main question would merely be one surrounding enemy agent action... Except...

Some may be aware there is an issue regarding "year" display and rate per turn and the relation to the aging of characters in relation to the number of "go's" or turns... CA, true to campaign promises has left the code open to manipulating this. If you alter the relationship between the year and turn , you can correct the odd Lazarus-like aging of characters, but there are conflicts that result as building is too fast and or the game too long... Although the Turk over at TWC has determined that the player characters age at a fixed rate to the number of turns, does the same hold true for merchants? If not , it would seem another issue that needs be handled if you want to correct the aging question or adjust how many years per turn go by and would also radically change the answer to the above post.

[Raises an Eyebrow quizically] Fascinating...

Al Jabberwock

[knoddy]

ok seeing as im aussie i dont have the game yet but im curious as to how merchants work. so a few questions
1. do u send them into enemy territory or can u place them on resources inside your own borders?
2. if u place them on someone elses resource, can that faction no longer trade that resource in that province?
3. does placing a merchant on another factions resource count as an act of war?


Cheers Knoddy

[Nebuchadnezzar]

A couple of good questions knobby. To expand on that

Can you place a merchant on a resource held by rebels
Does income stop if the resource is inside another faction which you are at war with.

3. does placing a merchant on another factions resource count as an act of war?

No

[Freedom Onanist]

Hass anyone got any idea how to improve your merchants so that they don't just sell out? My merchants always seem to be of a low value and cave in to hostile takeovers every time.

I have left a merchant on a tile close to "home" to build up experience - nada
I have sent a merchant out to the furthest reaches of the world to build up experience and valuable trade routes - nada

They all stay useless in the face of economic warfare. Anybody know what to do to make them a bit more like the boss rather than the apprentice?

[Strappy Horse]

I've noticed that if I leave a merchant on the same trading resource long enough (must have been 20 turns at least), he earns up to a +3 on monopolist or something.
One of my other merchants gathered +2 as a gracious traveller, by, well, travelling.

[Vicarious]

I should be careful to throw criticism on my first posts on this forum, but I really think the moderators should be more active on merging threads and so on.

This post is also about merchants, and gives som advices:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=71833

But cutting to the case, I have the same problem. The merchants cost 550 to recruit but luckyily they have free upkeep. Anyway, sending my stack of merchants all over the world, my highest income so far has been 6 florins per turn... And you don't have to be an econom to see that this won't win you the game.

According to the other thread I see a few advices:
- 2 merchants on the same resource
- Merchants guild

[AussieGiant]

Advise given on the COM:

"oh btw: the farther away the resource is from your land, the more money it generates per turn

Im currently playing the english and i got a few merchants around Jerusalem and they're racking in about 80-100ish per turn, more than my merchants in england generates, even tho they have been there longer"

Econ can you get some of your dudes over there.

I seem to be playing vicariously through you at the moment. Hope you don't mind.

[econ21]

Econ can you get some of your dudes over there.

OK, I'm on it.

[R'as al Ghul]

I seem to be playing vicariously through you at the moment. Hope you don't mind.

A new game style: "Play by Message Board Campaign" or PBMBC.

[Jimmytwohand]

Merchants are definitely worth having but not in my experience in the early game. They are quite expensive at 550 and you are much wiser using that cash for building and conquest. Once you have a few secure provinces under your belt and a little disposable cash however they can rake in a tidy sum. I would advise to only start with merchants properly once you have a merchants guild. This normally gives them a bonus trait or two which increases their business acumen.

As an example i am playing with england and only started using merchants once i had a sizeable chunk of france conquered. I poured out 6-8 merhcants when i was flush and as someone else mentioned paired them up in my secure provinces where i had assasins handy to deal with any foreign merchants coming in. Particularly London for tin, Antwerp for silk and Angers for wine. Operating like this they will quickly get the monopolist traits and be boosted to +3/4/5 finance. At this point those resources are worth 30-40 florins each per year.

At this point it is not a bad amount of cash and they will quickly recoup their cost. However you can now send out your trained +4/+5 merchants to either explore more profitable reserves abroad or wage economic warfare with your enemies. The latter strategy will boost your merchants ranking even more making greater profits available. In the meantime you can replace your travelling merchants with fresh ones from your city with merchants guild helping towards the progression to master merchant guild and merchant headquarters. It may also turn out that higher levels of market like fairground or merchant quarter give a merchant boost too.

In summary during the early game merchants are a poor investment and only provide fodder for other nations to train their merchants. Once you have a secure homeland and guild however they can help reinforce your economic empire and destroy others trading as long as you are willing to give them some time to get up to speed. Definitely worth bothering with, just not right away. Build a secure empire, then strip it of resources.

[Vicarious]

Advise given on the COM:
I seem to be playing vicariously through you at the moment. Hope you don't mind.

You're quite a funny guy, aren't you?

Anyway, this has become a really useful thread. In my first campaign, I recruited 5 merchants that right now are earning from 1-6 florins each turn... Had I only listened to Jimmytwohand first..

[Quillan]

It really depends on who you are playing and what resources are near you. Playing Byzantium, there are 4 silk resources right around Constantinople (two on the east, two on the west). Even a beginning merchant was generating 30 or so florins a turn sitting on them. I've now got 4 merchants standing on all of them, even the merchants that began with a ranking of 1 are up to rank 7 mercantile now, and each one generates 52 florins per turn. This is all within 1 turns move of my capital, so how much would the silk resources around Baghdad be worth?

[alpaca]

From the manual:

Trade rights. Having trade rights with the faction that owns the resource a merchant is
trading increases the amount of florins generated.

Distance bonus. The further the closest instance of a trade resource is to a merchant’s
capital, the greater a bonus he will get to the trade income he will earn from it.

[AussieGiant]

OK, I'm on it.

Good job there Econ!!

Report in once you have recon'd the area.

I'll be at staff HQ if you need me!!

By the way Jimmytwohand...bloody excellent advice there old chap!!

Carry on Mercantiling...(I think that is another new word!)

[Vlad The Impaler]

tip: around timbouktu in Africa are some very good resources; 2 yvory and 1 gold. i play as moors and the region isnt mine yet.
the merchant that trade gold make 237 / turn and the two other that trade ivory make aroun 120 /turn
almost 500 gold/turn only with merchants
until now, almost 40 turns, nobody tried to assasinate or buy them

[Lusted]

Trade rights. Having trade rights with the faction that owns the resource a merchant is
trading increases the amount of florins generated.

So thats why my merchants went from making 120 a turn round Constantinople to 24 when war was declared.

[TinCow]

As England, I've maxed out my Merchants and have them all on wine resources in France and HRE. I am earning approximately 500/turn off of them.

I have also gotten the Merchant's Guild Headquarters in London, which seems (as far as I can tell) to give an automatic +1 stat to every Merchant recruited in my Empire, no matter where he is produced.

[Spendius]

According to the other thread I see a few advices:
- 2 merchants on the same resource
- Merchants guild

Is it the same resource or the same type of resource ? I can't seem to be able to put 2 merchants on the same resource...
Also, does anyone knows whether it is more profitable to put merchants in foreign lands with trade rights or on one's own land (distance to capital being equal) ?

[Quillan]

Directly, I think it's the same. Indirectly, it will work out better with the foreign merchant, providing you maintain trade rights. I moved one of my 7 finance merchants from the silk by Constantinople all the way over to the silk by Baghdad. After sitting there for a few turns, he picked up another 1 finance from knowledge of foreign customs. His profits are down now, though, since the Turks called a jihad and declared war on me.

[Vicarious]

Is it the same resource or the same type of resource ? I can't seem to be able to put 2 merchants on the same resource...
Also, does anyone knows whether it is more profitable to put merchants in foreign lands with trade rights or on one's own land (distance to capital being equal) ?

I was just reffering to another post in this thread:

So far playing as England (turn 88) I have around 6 merchants, all paired up in twos and sitting on the same resource in the same provinces. I have two in western france trading with wine, two in north east france trading with silk, and another two in HRE trading with iron. With each two im making about 60 - 90 florins a turn, depending on their level of experience.

When I read it now, I think he means the same type of resource not the same resource. Haven't got to check this out myself yet, since I follow the advice not to build merchants before I have a merchants guild.

[todorp]

IMHO the merchants are not cost effective at the current price of $550. When bought they are 20 years old and die at 60. In the normal 2 years per turn it is maximum 20 turns, because my mecrhants are killed much earlier. If I place them on a near by resource they make about $6 to $15 / turn.

20*$15=$300<$550

To get to a high income resource they have to travel tens of turns.

10*$30=$300<$550

I think the merchants were designed for 2 turns per year, because for 1 year per turn you will just get your money back if the merchant doesn't get killed.

[Amon_Zeth]

I think it's important to note that even if you eventually get the same nominal amount back from a merchant (550 florins), you actually incur a real loss. Why? Opportunity costs. For that amount of money, you could have put it into some other thing, like markets, roads, soldiers, etc., and gotten more out of it. So the real costs of the merchant is more than 550, because you have to take into account what you could have gotten with that 550 in the interim years. </economics major>

[therother]

I find merchants to be pretty good value. At the moment, my average merchant earns about 20-30 a turn, with 2-3 100+, but they make the most money from buying over foreign merchants. My 10 valour merchant makes a fortune this way. If you factor in the costs to your opponents of losing their merchant and his revenue stream, I think it tips the balance in favour of using them.

Also, when you are moving them abroad, you can usually go from one trade item to the next, so that there isn't that many turns when you aren't making any money. If a rival merchant happens to be sitting on the good at the time, all the more fun.