Truces?

**frogbeastegg** · 11-11-2006, 23:56

Anyone else had a truce forced on them with no warning or input? And not by the Pope either - I was fighting an excommunicated faction.

Played a bit tonight. England VH/VH. All was going well. Scotland has attacked me; my smaller army held them off, and slowly ground them down. Scotland got excommunicated the turn after they attacked, and remained excommunicated. I killed their faction heir and best general in battle. The way to Edinburgh was at last clear, and they only had 3 tiny armies left. I paused for a couple of turns to shuttle some reinforcements to my battered army. Out of the blue, bang! I got one of those "diplomacy update" overviews at the start of the turn I was planning to march on Edinburgh. Mixed in amongst the usual X faction is allied to Y faction, z faction has declared war on B faction, I find that Scotland now has a truce with England. Excuse me!? That was the first I'd heard of it. I was not asked about a truce, or I'd have refused it. I had no separate announcement window telling me of my altered diplomatic status. If I hadn't read the report to see what other factions were up to I'd have missed it entirely.

Anyone know what happened? It was highly annoying, and utterly ruined my strategy.

**Varam** · 11-11-2006, 23:59

Did they maybe sign an alliance with a faction that you were allied with?

**frogbeastegg** · 11-12-2006, 00:09

Curses! It's been so long since I played these games that I had forgotten that the game forces peace on two factions if they both ally to a third party.

It's been years since I was last bitten by this feature.

Still, a pop up specific to my faction telling me my updated status and why it had occurred would have been nice.

Note to self: thus far allies aren't worth it. Either they attack you anyway (was allied to the Scots when they attacked me), or they stand about in your lands with massive armies menacing your lands (the French), or they bring your war to a screeching halt as soon as you begin to win because they ally with your worst enemy. Damn

I was hoping for better things from diplomacy and alliances.

**Varam** · 11-12-2006, 00:16

So that's what caused it? What a shame. I was really hoping for an option to break the alliance instead of being forced into a ceasefire this time around. Oh well.

**frogbeastegg** · 11-12-2006, 00:23

At a guess it is; I can't know for certain because my memory on the exact order of things is fuzzy from tiredness. I was allied to France, and at some point shortly before I quit the game Scotland became France's allies. I also know that close to the point where I quit France broke its alliance with me and dropped to neutral status. IIRC that was the turn after the truce was forced on me.

So I had my war halted for an ally I didn't care much for, and who dumped me immediately anyway to stick close to my enemy. Annoying, highly annoying.

**Parmenion** · 11-12-2006, 00:57

That's strange because I was expecting this sort of thing to happen and I noticed that it didn't. I am allied to both the HRE and France, yet they are at war with each other.
In the original game I would have been forced to choose which one to remain allied to.
A new feature perhaps?

**Bob the Insane** · 11-12-2006, 03:31

While having the unilateral truce forced on you like that is a bit odd, it is not as if you couldn't have just attacked them again anyway... Then the French would have to make up their minds as to which treaty they wanted to maintain...

Or could it have been a deliberate ploy by the French to generate an excuse for breaking their treaty with you or prevent you taking the extra land to the north? If they harboured ambitions towards your lands it would be a win/win situation for them...

Originally Posted by Parmenion

That's strange because I was expecting this sort of thing to happen and I noticed that it didn't. I am allied to both the HRE and France, yet they are at war with each other.
In the original game I would have been forced to choose which one to remain allied to.
A new feature perhaps?

The rules normally go like this I think:

If a faction is neutral to you then you can try to ally with them, except if the neutral faction is allied to a faction you are at war with then you will not have the option to ally with them...

If the neutral faction is at war with one of your allies and the new alliance is accepted then in forces a truce.

If two of your allies start fighting you are forced to chose between them.

But as we have all seen instances (I am sure I have seen this situation in RTW) where two of our allies are at war with each other and yet remain allied to you, then there has to be a logic error somewhere which appears to still exist in M2TW...

**AlJabberwock** · 11-12-2006, 03:43

"Ah yes! Zee old, uh - vhatever he zaid - uh, ploy"

**Horatius** · 11-12-2006, 03:47

Had it happen to me same situation, unlike you though I just attacked Scotland anyway since they did not regain communion making them fair game.

Fortune favours the bold.

**Quillan** · 11-12-2006, 08:01

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Note to self: thus far allies aren't worth it. Either they attack you anyway (was allied to the Scots when they attacked me), or they stand about in your lands with massive armies menacing your lands (the French), or they bring your war to a screeching halt as soon as you begin to win because they ally with your worst enemy. (Emphasis mine)

Funny you should mention that. I'm playing my first campaign as the Byzantines (manually unlocked all the locked factions), beat the Hungarians to Sofia, and then allied with them. Their army hasn't moved in the last 6 turns.

**Midnight** · 11-12-2006, 09:53

Had the same thing happen here. I'm the Spanish, and my French allies thought it'd be wonderful to ally with the Moors. Immediate, non-negotiable Truce.

The French have been standing around in my lands, too (when they're not guarding bridges so I can't get to rebel territories.).

**GFX707** · 11-12-2006, 13:15

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

Note to self: thus far allies aren't worth it. Either they attack you anyway (was allied to the Scots when they attacked me), or they stand about in your lands with massive armies menacing your lands (the French), or they bring your war to a screeching halt as soon as you begin to win because they ally with your worst enemy. Damn

I was hoping for better things from diplomacy and alliances.

I'm not pleased to hear that....I thought given 4 years since MTW they might have thought about fixing that. Oh well, another reason I'm glad I've held off buying MTW2.

**JoeyBritt** · 11-12-2006, 14:52

My guess is that the better your relation with an allied faction, the least likely they are to randomly attack you

**Faenaris** · 11-12-2006, 17:04

Originally Posted by JoeyBritt

My guess is that the better your relation with an allied faction, the least likely they are to randomly attack you

I agree. I have been an ally to the HRE for over 50 turns now and we share the same border. That particular city of mine has minimal defenses, yet, they have never touched it or even approached it.

A small gift of 5000 florins makes your ally really happy.