A Song Of Ice and Fire

[a_b_danner]

Check out some of the threads on Diplomacy. It looks like we have a lot more options in MTW2 than in RTW. These could work out especially well for Banner factions, making them very unlikely to Rebel, or unlikely for a period of turns and then Very likely. Or even more importently, it would allow the player to play as a Bannerman, and make it very unlikely to get attacked by the Major faction (until you're ready to stab them in the back, of course).

Exampls;

if we're at war && he borders all our groups && his frontline strength is more than thrice as large as ours && his free strength is more than four times as large as ours >>> propose become protectorate


if we're at war && his frontline strength is less than ours && his free strength is greater than ours, then >>> conduct raids

if we're not at war && we are not his weakest neighbour && we are allied to him,then >>> minimal

if we have any settlements, and we are at the very start of the game, and target is not human (cannot trust humans) >>> minimal defense

if we're not at war && we're not at war with anyone else && we outproduce him && he is most desireable, then >>> plan future invasion

SPECIAL CASE EXISTS HERE IN CODE FOR FORCING ATTACK ON HUMAN IF AT PEACE WITH EVERYONE FOR TOO LONG (hard = 4 turns, normal = 10 turns, easy = 20 turns)

Not interested in factions that are not our neighbour, use defaults, may be overridden by forced/naval attacks

If we are allied and have only been allied for a short duration, no invasion set up, cannot force invade

From this threa;

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71792

[Eef]

This is a great idea for a mod -- the world of ASoIaF would fit in perfectly with M2TW. I have no experience modding, but I'm currently rereading the series for the third time, so I'd be happy to help if you need any aid on the conceptual side of things. I'd also be willing to find quotes from the series for loading screens, or perhaps write up a blurb for the screen where you choose your faction.

[k995]

This is a great idea for a mod -- the world of ASoIaF would fit in perfectly with M2TW. I have no experience modding, but I'm currently rereading the series for the third time, so I'd be happy to help if you need any aid on the conceptual side of things. I'd also be willing to find quotes from the series for loading screens, or perhaps write up a blurb for the screen where you choose your faction.

Well I was currently looking up the lannister and starks soldiers descriptions in the books. If you could find some and post them of the other factions(tully,Barattheon , martel,...) that would be welcome.

[The Wizard]

Good idea, though perhaps "Baratheon at King's Landing" is perhaps better incorporated into "Lannister" seeing as all Baratheon bannermen seem to either be part of the Highgarden host or with Stannis... although I admit it was unclear as to what happened to them following Renly's death.

And might I suggest we keep the East out of this? The military conflicts on either continent are entirely seperate, and the only way to do justice to either is to create an entirely seperate scenario/map for each of them.

Then there's the question: when does the mod start? Before Ned's death? After? Probably, but when after? The sides shift and change so quickly at times that one needs to be careful with what moment one takes as starting point.

P.S. You could also ask www.westeros.org if you could use their coats-of-arms, which are supported by GRRM as being more accurate than those of the publisher (especially House Arryn's).

[a_b_danner]

And might I suggest we keep the East out of this? The military conflicts on either continent are entirely seperate, and the only way to do justice to either is to create an entirely seperate scenario/map for each of them.

Then there's the question: when does the mod start? Before Ned's death? After? Probably, but when after? The sides shift and change so quickly at times that one needs to be careful with what moment one takes as starting point.

Keep the east out to start with. It could be added later as an expansion, as time allows.

In the RTW mod for westeros, there was a lot of discussion about the mod starting point (at least in the early stages, when I was able to participate). The general consensus was to start the day of the kings death. There was ongoing debate about whether to start factions at war with each other, or just make them dislike each other enough they will go to war soon.

One idea was to put Ned Stark as a lone unit adjacent to kings landing, or with a unit of Mounted and armored Sergeants - as if he were trying to make a run for it prior to being imprisoned. He would have to fight and sneak his way home.

[Eef]

I agree that the East should stay out of it, at least at first. Westeros will be enough work by itself, I'm sure, and we also just don't know that much about the eastern continent, save for the small part Dany's been across.

I did a little searching on the Martell's military (westeros.org is a great site for finding this sort of stuff). Due to its Rhoynar influence, Dorne is culturally very different from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. Their favored weapon is the spear, and they also make extensive use of javelins, both from horseback and on foot. Dorne is the only region in Westeros that makes extensive use of missile cavalry, harassing foes with their recurved bows. Dornish steeds are famed for their speed and stamina.

Dornishmen rarely wear heavy armor, preferring shirts of mail or leather. Noblemen wear shirts of interlapping copper disks. Dornish shields are round and polished.

The Martells would have a small navy, capable of defending itself but not nearly as large or powerful as some of the other houses.

So, to summarize in game terms:

Good light cavalry, missile cavalry, and spearmen. They'd have some knights, but they would be weak in comparison to most of the other factions. Lacking heavy infantry and strong heavy cavalry. Bonuses for fighting in desert, good stamina.

[Westeez]

Oh god, please tell me this is still alive.

[5000]

i could prolly help out with the map, i still have all the files i did from a long long time ago, the tga files should still work the only thing that would need to be changed would be all the name references to provinces and such in about 4 or 5 different text files. i'll have some time the week after christmas, shouldnt take me more than a day or two, i'll post everything here, once i'm done, and you may do with it as you wish.

the map i have is only westeros, the eastern continent wouldnt be too hard to add and i wouldnt mind adding on for you guys in the future, i did some experimenting with rome and it was able to handle a fairly large map size, big enough for at least the western edge of the eastern continent. so i'd say its possible.
but my advice would be to start small, and see how it goes

[5000]

actually i'm going to hold off on the map, until you guys decide what factions to include, and which factions will replace the ones in game.

heres your list of factions:

playable
	england
	france
	hre
	spain
	venice
	sicily
	milan
	scotland
	byzantium
	russia
	moors
	turks
	egypt
	denmark
	portugal
	poland
	hungary
end
nonplayable
	papal_states
	aztecs
	mongols
	timurids
	slave

you gotta keep all the names the same, like poland will still say poland in all the text files but they will now reference your modified files that have say stark text, images and units. i think you may have been able to make a faction from scratch, not sure tho. if it was possible we didnt cause it woulda been waaay too much work. just tell me which ASOIAF factions you want to replace each of the above factions.

something to consider when changing out factions: in rome they had cultural groupings, i think there were 6 cultures, which affected building types and units types, that were allowed to be built. you might wanna look into that and see what faction belongs to which culture and make your faction changes accordingly. ie if you choose to have stark and umber you would want them in the same cultural/religious grouping as they would have similar units and buildings.

culture might have been replaced by religion, but i have no idea


shoot me an email if and when you get that figured out, or if you have any questions, i'm currently looking for all our old discussions from our forums, i had it backed up and i'm sure i have it, just having a bit of trouble finding it. it has tons of discussions on what to include what not to include and why. and lots of arguments, hehehehehe.


but consider the map taken care, i'd be more than happy it to do it, that is of course if you would like help on it

best of luck
-5000
westerostw@gmail.com

[5000]

i did find some text files of units and unit descriptions, that we were working on, if you want those

[a_b_danner]

Hey 5000, good to see you again (and your map). Hopefully someone with a bit of time on there hands can take a whack at this. If shouldn't be nearly as much work with the current MTW2, since most factions can be plugged in quite neatly to get a first version out. Once that is done, more work can be done on getting custom skins, banners, ancillaries, etc.

[Westeez]

As for the House of Stark, in the books they seem to resemble a 'Danish' type army the best. Lots of shock of infantry, but not as heavily armoured. Good fast shock calvary with high attack, but a lower charge and defense due to a lack of lances and plate. I also recall them being good archers and frequent use of Longbows.

[Eltharon]

Wouldn't the Ironborn be the Danes of Westeros? I'll have to check it, but even so, I guess the Starks would have some viking-esque units.

By the way, I can help out in any way except graphics/mapping, (I could probably do that with some practice, I've got Lightwave 9 on one of my PCs, if thats compatable) and i'm pretty free until January.

[Eltharon]

After fiddling around in my Westeros books, here's some information about troop strength, fleet sizes and army composition. This is taken from the Game of Thrones RPG and sort of approved by GRRM

1) Kings Landing has a permanent city watch of about 2000 Gold Cloaks. I suppose they'd be town or spear militia. From the surrounding lesser houses, it can summon about 10-15,000 men and has 50 ships in the royal fleet.
2) Dragonstone can summon about 3000 men and 400 heavy cavalry, but 160 ships, 80 of which are 100+ oars.
3)The North can summon almost 45,000 men, but summoning more then 20,000 will mean dire consequences in the winter. (Note: Remember that the story starts in the summer, and then will continue all through the years of winter. We'll have to mod that). Their army composition is about 4 footmen to one horseman. They have no fleet
4) The Greyjoys can summon 20,000 swords and have a fleet of more then 500 ships, but many are smaller longships that can't stand up to a true ship of the line. They have no real cavalry to speak of.
5) The Riverlands can summon about 45,000 men, but the divisions among the lesser houses lead to problems--the Freys like to sit and wai, and they hold 4000 men. They have a small river fleet and a ration of foot to horse of about 3 to 1
6) The Vale has comparable might to the Riverlands, minus the divisons among the lesser houses. They have a small navy in Gulltown. Foot to horse is 3-1
7)The Westerlands can call on 50,000 swords, including green boys and castle garrisons. They have an foot to horse ratio of 2-1. Its noted here that Lannister Pikemen are some of the best foot levy in Westeros. They have perhaps 60 ships.
8)The Reach (Tyrell) can call on 80,000 men with a foot/horse ratio of 2 or 3 to 1. They float 200 ships, all dipping more then 100 oars.
9) The Stormlands have strong castles, but only call on 30,000 men, with a foot/horse ratio of 4-1 or worse. However, their men are mainly veteran troops.
10) Dorne: 50,000 men. Good foot/horse ratio, but light spearmen and cavalry. They have a small navy (maybe 20 ships)


Hope some of this helps.

[iwantmyaccountdeleted]

Errr. Shouldn't we lobby to get our own subforum?

[Liu]

Subforum seems to make sense.

[Marcus Brutus]

Hi. I'm Marcus Brutus, from TWC, SCC, etc. I'm now the head of this mod, and
I will try to update this thread as much as possible as to our achievements. I'll make a following post with links to our more updated threads.

Thanks for your interest!
~Marcus & Westeros Team

[Marcus Brutus]

Now that I got my first post in, I can post links. So, here we are:
TWC thread
The first five pages or so is just bickering and whatnot, after that it becomes contructive. I've seen all these arguments before, with the Rome mod, so I was a tad harsh in quashing them. This thread is our main thread and will be the most up to date.

Westeros.org thread
This thread is our research thread, covering everything from cultures to faction selections. This has all be decided by now, but we're about to start unit discussion. Most of these posts wont make it to TWC, only the definitive ones after things have been decided will be pasted over.

Cheers!

[Jinnigan]

I would like to contribute to this. Is there an official forum or official thread or anything of that nature that I can look at?

[Marcus Brutus]

No, just those two threads. What area would you like to contribute in? Unless you have sufficient coding or skinning abilities, it's unlikely we'll take on new team members. However input and research is always welcome.

[Feldar]

Hey you.. where I get hold of this mod? I love Martin's series of novels - A Song of Ice and Fire and I would like to play it too.