A little Idea...

[Filibustería]

Sorry for my english...
I was thinking in the possibilities than M2TW offers and I had an idea for a mod:

It takes place in the 1400's, featuring as main faction a still surviving and decadent Roman Empire, which didn`t fell before the barbarian invasions.
The Gauls, Germans and Britons would be independent, but they wouldn't have adopted the roman culture as they did in reality. Gunpowder and new tactics would be combined with the Ancient warfare.
here I made a Roman Soldier :


Eastern factions would have evolved too, Parthia would be a huge and powerful Empire, and a new Carthage would have been founded by intellectuals and aristocrats that hated Rome, transforming it soon in a significant power again...
The Roman Empire would have been largely reduced due to the invasions, but not completely lost.
I havent created other factions cause its useless unles someone is interested by my mod...
Here is the current map idea:

Perhaps some new carthage pikemen?


Im not a modeller, nor a skinner or scripter, but i want to inspire people into this idea, that can be used or even chaged a little to create a great mod.
Thanks

[caius britannicus]

Hrm, interesting. Oddly enough I have been developing a concept (over the last couple months) for a medieval 2 mod that sorta has the same idea. However it goes a little farther back in setting up the factions. I've actually written alot of the new history already and developed alot of the equipement. For instance here is a drawing from about 3 weeks ago:



I was alittle worried that my unique idea was now out in the open and I would have to work with someone else with a competing vision. Now I am wrestling with announcing an actual mod or still staying quite.

[Filibustería]

But do you think it could work?
What equipmenthave you developed?
Are those drawings yours?

[caius britannicus]

But do you think it could work?
What equipmenthave you developed?
Are those drawings yours?

Why couldn't it work. It just requires someone with experience. In the end my idea differs greatly from yours as I have rewritten the history alot including the factions that are in places like England, france, germany, eastern europe, africa and spain. I have reshaped religions and cities omitted historical characters or re-written what they did. Where as yours basically take rome before the barbarian invasions and just move it towards the medieval period.

Equipement wise I have basically been working through developing the evolution of alexandrian era greek equipment to the medieval era (thats what you see in the drawing, those are concepts for various greek inspired helmets). Currently I have started developing the roman medieval equipment based off early imperial and late republic arms.

And yes, the drawings are mine.... whose else would they be?

[Filibustería]

Wow it seems that you made a lot of work there, and those drawings are amazing! It would be much more fair if we respected your original idea and work.
But you said germany, england, france.
Do you think that if the roman empire hadnt fell, they would have been created anyway?
I mean, if the empire hadnt fell, the imperial system would remain, so the feudalism wouldnt have been created, cause the payment system wouldnt have mixed with the german one. I think,that the gauls, britons and germans would have confederated in three important semi-barbaric tribes, adopting new warfare methods but still remaining celtic and magical, threatening the roman empire constantly.
But i am no researcher, perhaps you have good reasons for putting those 3 countries, so tell me what you think.
In my original idea, i had planned the confederated germas as this:

Not that warhammer-ish, but somethimg like that.

[caius britannicus]

when I said germany, england and france I was referring to the locations not the kingdoms. The history I am developing is rather elobarote. For instance Britannia in my history is conquered by the roman empire in 115BC (which is an empire already, long story part of the histories) and held as a province until 750ish AD after a 10 year struggle with Northmen Invaders. Roman presence on the mainland however allowed the Northmens kingdom to flourish and by the start date of the mod would have under its control the entire island. The faction itself would draw its influence from viking culture however it would be modernized a bit with a bit of roman influence in it. This is the sort of thing I am developing for those regions. Its not so muched based in historical fact but more on imaginative what ifs.

[Filibustería]

Ah ok.
Could you paint-draw a map specifiyng the limits of the empire and the staring date of the mod according to your original Idea?
Thanks.

[caius britannicus]

I'm still in a wip, I've only developed brief histories for factions outside of the Roman and Alexandrian empires and even they are works in progress and subject to change. However I can put together something. This idea of mine isn't ready for production any time soon. Probably won't start tangible work (aka modelling, textures, maps and coding) until the spring and only if its a feasible project. Mtw2 is an improvement over RTW but I don't know exactly how modible it is.

EDIT: Heres my initial idea on starting locations for the Roman and Alexandrian Empires

[Murfios]

Don't you think Baabarians by that time be more organised? You know, you could actually replace that wooden shield with a breast plate of crude iron. It works better stoping bullets than the shield.

Another Thing: I like the idea of Carthage being like a rebel empire that loathes Rome. Its so original.

[Filibustería]

Hey that map is great how did you make it???
Besides of Roman and Alexandrian empires, and northern-conquered britain, what other factions would it be?
I think you should include some real ones like turks, they could have perfectly conquered those regions whether the roman empire had fell or not....

I have a question..
Was Jesus born according to your story?

[Murfios]

you know, he could have been born, but not crucified because only romans used that punishment. Greeks actualy respected jew and would have found a logical explanation to solve the problem. Jesus could had just lived and died normaly. His religion would have been forgoten. If Jesus would to have existed, that could be an explanation.

[caius britannicus]

you know, he could have been born, but not crucified because only romans used that punishment. Greeks actualy respected jew and would have found a logical explanation to solve the problem. Jesus could had just lived and died normaly. His religion would have been forgoten. If Jesus would to have existed, that could be an explanation.

Indeed, what I have developed religion wise is fairly similiar to this. I don't delve into the history of christ but what I did decide upon was that christianity never really got anywhere past a cult following in israel. The romans never adopted the religion and so they maintained their pagan ways. The Greeks under Alexander eventually diefied him and he replaced Zeus atop the pantheon. However, to add some variety I have left Islam. Now some would say how did islam develop without a christian religion? What I have decided is that islam would have developed out of judaisim from captured Jewish slaves. I haven't fleshed it out entirely but thats the direction I am heading.

Hey that map is great how did you make it???
Besides of Roman and Alexandrian empires, and northern-conquered britain, what other factions would it be?
I think you should include some real ones like turks, they could have perfectly conquered those regions whether the roman empire had fell or not....

In my history factions outside of roman influence remain, however they will be slightly different. Polish and russian factions would exist, with slight changes along with a native iberian kingdom and arab west african faction. I've also thought of having the mongol invasion already occuring and in an attempt to secure its borders the Alexandrian EMpire has given the Mongols some of its territory in a peace agreement.

[Murfios]

Cant you start making this game for R:TW? Besides, MII:TW will need:
ABOUT:
3.1 procesor
1g ram
128 Video Card

And not many people will get it, that will make alot of RTW gamers unhappy and will continue to play it until they get money.

[caius britannicus]

Cant you start making this game for R:TW? Besides, MII:TW will need:
ABOUT:
3.1 procesor
1g ram
128 Video Card

And not many people will get it, that will make alot of RTW gamers unhappy and will continue to play it until they get money.

I'm done with RTW, it has far too many limitations and the more I hear about MTW2 the more it seems to fit my needs with this idea. Plus, as I mentioned production is at least 4 months away. By then RTW will be long forgotten.

[Antagonist]

Very interesting idea, if a little unorthodox. I must admit that I'm a fan of alternate history, fun way to combine real knowledge with imagination.

I actually made a small mod for Mount & Blade with a similar premise, I think it was too far out for most of that game's mod community, but it might still be up there somewhere. Reassuring to know that I'm not the only one who thought Romans with muskets might be an interesting idea...

Anyway, keep developing the idea and maybe it will go places. Good luck.

Antagonist

[Filibustería]

could this work for an Alexandrian Late XV Century Knight?

[NagatsukaShumi]

I must say I am very impressed by this idea and I think it has huge potential, I am infact a bigger fan of "make believe" modifications than I am historical ones because they are so unique, you go into the game completely devoid of any knowledge of the environment in these case and you come out as a real fan of the work, I would if I had the means and time convert my own works into Total War as I think they provide such an interesting alternative.

Hopefully this will come to fruition caius britannicus, I will certainly look forward to it.

[caius britannicus]

Its gonna be a task. Especially if modelling turns out to be an ordeal. Although the plan is to utilize CA orginal meshes and add the odds and ends to them instead of trying to develop original meshes. But that sort of thing is months in the future. Right now its all about developing the histories and concepts.

Fil: Its not a bad idea for a late XV century helmet. Part of the Companian Guard Cavalry maybe. I haven't really developed later armor as I am working right now to develop the earlier stuff. For instance here are some helmets from a few weeks ago (they predate the drawings I posted above) as well the top four are early thracian great helms designed to be used with the Companian Guard Cavalry:



The bottom two are infantry designs.

[Myrddraal]

This is a mamoth project, but it could be very cool. Good luck with it

[Filibustería]

Fil: Its not a bad idea for a late XV century helmet. Part of the Companian Guard Cavalry maybe. I haven't really developed later armor as I am working right now to develop the earlier stuff. For instance here are some helmets from a few weeks ago (they predate the drawings I posted above) as well the top four are early thracian great helms designed to be used with the Companian Guard Cavalry:



The bottom two are infantry designs.

Great designs, again!
You said earlier stuff. Does that means 1100-1200 AD or 600-800 AD?

[caius britannicus]

ya 12th-13th century.

[Murfios]

You know, mixing ancient greek phalanx formation military tactics and 12th century military tactics, it could turn out to be a ground-supported,heavy, long barrel musket tactics by a bayonet. in this case more like a spear. So, Greeko Fallango Musketeers could be firing, while being protected with a spike wall. THey would no be easy target for cavalry as other infantry.

Hoplon could be replaced by a chest guard. Heavy helmet could also be replaced, by a segmented similar looking helmet, this time made out of steel, not bronce.

[Filibustería]

You know, mixing ancient greek phalanx formation military tactics and 12th century military tactics, it could turn out to be a ground-supported,heavy, long barrel musket tactics by a bayonet.

It would be a good idea, but i thing that there weren't muskets in the 13th Century.

And oter thing... If there is no christianism, there can be no 13th or 15th century...

[caius britannicus]

With my histories, Alexanders empire brought increased trade from China. Therefore advances in gun powder technology arrived in europe several hundred years earlier. It is my intention to include muskets from the very beginning (or close to it) and then use them as the catalyst for stronger plate armored soldiers etc.

[Filibustería]

With my histories, Alexanders empire brought increased trade from China. Therefore advances in gun powder technology arrived in europe several hundred years earlier. It is my intention to include muskets from the vary beginning (or close to it) and then use them as the catalyst for stronger plate armored soldiers etc.

Oh, well then, could this work?


Reloading would be a HUGE problem, though.

[caius britannicus]

Heres a finished concept of a unit for the Alexandrian Empire:



Hypaspist 2nd Class. He is a member of the Homeland Guard, a division of the finest greek soldiers the empire can collect. Their sole purpose is to protect the greek homeland stretching from Illyria to Byzantium. They were permenatly stationed in Greece after the Roman invasion of 173BC in retaliation for the Alexandrian conquest of Sicily following the 2nd Greco-Roman War.

[Murfios]

It would be a good idea, but i thing that there weren't muskets in the 13th Century.

And oter thing... If there is no christianism, there can be no 13th or 15th century...

You are right. But we need to be based on real time dates to be comprehended.

With my histories, Alexanders empire brought increased trade from China. Therefore advances in gun powder technology arrived in europe several hundred years earlier. It is my intention to include muskets from the very beginning (or close to it) and then use them as the catalyst for stronger plate armored soldiers etc.

I had a similar idea in mind.

Oh, well then, could this work?

Thats exelent! One detail though, they cant be sitting while firing, its too unconfortable and they cant fire with precision now that they dont have proper support. To be able to reload, they could have a musket that breaks, reload it like a normal one, then flip it back on to make a long one.

Early on, the Alexandrian Empire could have adopted the firelance from china. The "Greek Fire Lance". Was Ghenjis Khan born it your History? If he was, he could have taken a part visible in the map.(If he had not died)

[caius britannicus]

"Early on, the Alexandrian Empire could have adopted the firelance from china. The "Greek Fire Lance". Was Ghenjis Khan born it your History? If he was, he could have taken a part visible in the map.(If he had not died)"

As I mentioned above, the mongols very much attacked. The Alexandrian empire hit them dead on. However, like in actual history the mongols cavalry was far superior to the heavy cavalry and pikemen infantry of the Alexandrian Empire. Several crushing defeats forced the Alexandrian Emperor to abandon territory and pay a tithe based on the empires yearly taxation to the mongolian Khans to ensure the empires safety.

[Filibustería]

[QUOTE=Murfios]
Thats exelent! One detail though, they cant be sitting while firing, its too unconfortable and they cant fire with precision now that they dont have proper support.[QUOTE]

You're right, but they could sit once they have fired to properly recieve the cavarlt charge.

[Throumbaris]

Caius i have to say i love fantasy stories like that and i would love to help with some concept art. Perhaps you should make a thread of this? Also are the armor styles equivalent to early until late medieval historic ones or are you matching different eras with different ages?