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Thread: England

  1. #61

    Default Re: England

    Currently playing my first game as England on m/m. I started with taking my army from the isle and taking York, Caernaveron (sp?), and Dublin asap. I made a move after York to take Inverness but the Scots already had it under siege so I moved on to Caernaveron. At the same time as that I took Rennes with my mainland forces and a few added units from Caen. I waited for missions to try and make some extra cash but I took Dublin and Rennes early because the Scots and France had guys on their way there.

    I made an extra diplomat so I could have one to negotiate with near my settlements and one to head south. The south one I used to do a few diplomatic missions from the nobles and ended up using him to form an alliance with the papal states and the HRE. HRE took an alliance with nothing extra, but the papal states took a little but of bribing. I offered them cash gifts when I could spare it, which they really seem to love as well as cash tributes and map info. After a few turns of doing this I formed a perfect relationship with the pope which was very helpful. Of course you can't forget to keep up with churches and priests as well.

    During this France got aggressive and started a siege on Caen. I took my units that were still in Rennes and positioned them directly behind the French and as soon as they were excommunicated I decimated them and moved to take Angers. The French army was decimated very badly after this so they sent in a diplomat to talk to my general and I negotiated a ceasefire in return for giving me Rheim, which they barely accepted.

    When the pope called for the first crusade I was in the middle of my war with France so I decided to ignore his call and take the consequences which weren't too bad at all because of our diplomatic relationship. About 10 to 20 turnws after that I recruited about 7 priests from Caernaveron and Dublin along with a stack of 5 cog units and shipped them to Africa while I was screwing around in Europe. Once there they were they started converting the muslims and their piety skyrocketed. Once the Cardinals started dying the pope was more than happy to replace them with my missionaries from Africa. When the pope died my cardinal was a complete shoe in. Now I have nearly free reign over anyone with less than 5 papal rating.

    Scotland proved to be the thorn in my campaign's side. They became aggressive right around when I sent the priests to Africa. During this time Milan had started a war with me and Scotland started soon after them. The Scots took York for a few turns and I took it back after mustering all my isle troops. They ended up becoming allies with nearly all my neighbors (Portugal, France, HRE, and Milan) so when I sacked Edinburgh they started to get pissed at me and eventually started to attack me.

    After taking Edinburgh the pope (this was still the original pope) told me to cease hostilities with Scotland because they had managed to keep a 6-cross rating. So I sent a spy to Inverness and kept my troops in Edinburgh while the Scots kept sieging it and being beaten back, and as soon as the ceasefire was over I rushed Inverness and wouldn't ya know it, my spy came through and I didn't need to siege it, I rushed the gates and killed off the Scots, finally giving me full control of the British Isles.

    During tthe Scot invasions I also had to fend off southern invasions by Milan and HRE, who turned on me after allying with Scotland. I was able to take Bordeaux, Paris, Bruges, and Antwerp, which has made me very financially secure. I'm currently in the middle of a four-front war with France, Milan, HRE, and Portugal, but with my pope I should have no problem with him interfering with my slaughtering.

    My biggest mistake was ignoring diplomacy with everyone aside from the pope. Of course I granted trade rights and was nice to everyone at first I let that go away and now I have a bunch of angry neighbors who are allied with each other. Luckily Spain hasn't allied with anyone except for the Moors (go figure) so I'm currently trying to secure their alliance and hopefully I'll be able to marry into their family to form at least one secure alliance.

  2. #62

    Default Re: England

    i like turtling as english and taking the lands on the french coast as a buffer for my island, and like econ said, just do what the pope and the council tells me, i prefer not to war monger and stay pretty peaceful unless attacked
    And when the brazen cry of achilles
    Was heard among the trojans, all their hearts
    Were troubled, and the full-maned horses whirled
    The chariots backward, knowing griefs at hand...

  3. #63

    Default Re: England

    Hi, I'm playing on the default M/M settings.

    My basic strategy has been based around the goal of having a solid advantage when the time comes to invade the new world.

    As I have heard nothing about how that part of the game works I am proceeding under the assumption that fleets will need to sail across the european map first.

    Thus my plan is to capture the western coast of europe and blockade the straits of Gilbitrator with a massive fleet. To do this I shall endevour to annihilate the Scots, french, Dutch, Spanish, Portugese and Moors.

    Thus far I have played for 78 Turns, and controll 32 provinces. This gives me the bulk of Western Europe. I have also captured the rebel Island near to the Holy lands.

    Thus far I have destroyed the Scots, French and Milanese. I also assisted the Spanish to destroy the Portugese(Too tempting a turget).

    My initial moves.
    Focus on two front war. English Isles and the Ferench coast.
    Built up my forces and immediatly moved north into York. The Forces in Caen immediatly moved north east to capture the two coastal rebel Towns. I then kept these armies inplace at York and Antwerp. I then built two new armies to capture the town west of Caen and West of Notingham.

    Then I declaired war on the scots and forced them to fall back into Ireland. The pope threatened excommunication so I arranged a ciecefire.

    As I was preparing to move on Bordeax the French Besieged Caen and England entered into a war that has continued is one fashion or another up till the present day.
    I did then muster my forces and struck back against the French taking 3 Provinces in total but during this the Scots got the fool notion that they could beat me and declaired war. Appeals for a Ciecefire were in vain So I now was fighting a two front war.

    Not that it mattered. I always keep strong standin armies on my borders, or close by in case of need. Then, having earlier rejected the invitation to join my war against the french, the HRE broke our alliance and sided with the scots and the frogs!

    Their first move was to take Antwerp, successfully holding it against two counter attacks by strong forces. Mostly this was due to my lack of artillery and the inabillity of spearmen to capture held ramparts, even enmasse.

    The problem was solved by teching up to catapults.

    I finished off the Scots and began to expand into french territory untill once again I found myself attacked by Millan in the south and by the dutch at Antwerp in the North.

    It was during this time I sent a force to join in the first of three Crusades so far. My forces traveled by sea around spain into the Med and on to the holy lands. After taking losses from disertion they landed and marched on Jeruselism only to see the stout stome walls and sigh in disappointment (I didn't sent Catapults with them). So I moved them south and attacked the Castle there. And was swiftly defeated, my King leaving a yellow streak so long that its stench reverberated throughout Chrissendom.

    A quich application of "rent an army" fixed the problem of him having lost his and I was set to try again on a different target.
    In the end I sailed East and captured the Rebel island I had passed on my way to the Holy Land.

    I then decided to bring the fleet, my king, and his daughter back to England. They had scarcely made it back to Italy when the King, his daughter were killed by the Villanous Millanese on the high seas.

    Back in Europe I was able to rout the invading armies and moved my forces south and East in two frounts to take two vital HRE Fortresses, Push the French back into Spain and the Milanese back Across the Alps.

    Stage Two.

    With large areas of Western Europe under my control, I was uble to finally move south into Spain to exterminate the French. (French Popes to date = Two, so the pope hates my Guts). The portugese left a nice unprotected forts next door so I promptly took that too. I also moved west into Millan and via several well fought battles destroyed their millitary might. Constant sabotage my my spy of their Cultural Infastructure eventually leading to their final defeat when their last two provences were lost to rebels.

    Stage Three

    The Spanish the decide to attack me as well. When will they learn? Again forcing me to fight on multiple fronts. I have just completed the destruction of the Dutch forces between my and Poland, and have started to advance into the HRE once more.

    My next moves will be to Exterminate the Duch and HRE. And move South to Conquor Spain, Followed my North Africa.

    I plan to stop my advance east at poland but that will depend of wether or not they will hold off attacking me.

    And finally, at last, the Pope is ENGLISH!

  4. #64

    Default Re: England

    Ever since patch 1.1, Portgual seems obessed in invading the British Isles no matter what.

    I'm not exactly sure what's the best option because ever since then the Spainards, Portugese, and moors rarely touch each other, hence, Portugal is free to do whatever.

    Best option of course is to exterminate them but that's difficult without angering the pope and such.

  5. #65

    Default Re: England

    Difficulty: VH/VH

    Well, actually, I think it's VH/VH, but I can't remember. Is there a way to check?

    Well, I'm on turn 40 about, and I have 19 provinces. I think it's actually easier to expand on VH/VH than it is on Medium, simply because everybody just attacks you. I formed a marriage alliance with the French, and they betrayed me 4 turns later. They laid seige to Bruges - in revenge, I took Paris, Rheims, and Angers. Then I killed the king, and the pope told me to stop attacking them for a while. This was fine, because they attacked me again later, so I took their last royal town and their king.

    As far as the Scottish go, I foolishly let them sit while I took rebel settlements and dealt with the French. Then, they attacked me, so I was forced into some tricky battles. In general, engage (trick them into engaging you) large armies on the field. The enemies are a little more confident and skilled on VH and last longer in a prolonged melee, but it is a lot better than dealing with a huge force in a city. One of my favorite things to do is to win a battle against a huge army, and force them into a city. Then, lay siege to that city. Usually, another huge army led by a noble comes up to save them. Kill the ENTIRE garrison when they sally, and as much of the other army as you can. I wiped out both Scotland and France this way. In one battle against Scotland, I killed their King and Heir and their main force. While one army was engaging them, I sent a small strike force to enter their capital and kill the king - winning the battle was not necessary, but it helped.

    France was the first faction I killed, and then Scotland. Right now, I'm in a Pax Anglica of sorts, so I'm using it to build some of the more important buildings I didn't get a chance to build while I was building armies. I currently have the English Isles, the France-ish area, that little town next to Antioch (forget what it's called), and some towns in northern Europe. I'm waiting for the Danish to betray me.

    Somebody brought up this point before, and it's a good one. Even if somebody beats you to the first crusade, take one of the rebel towns around the Holy Land and build it into a fortress. You have a huge stack in there already, and probably your faction leader. This is very nice, because new nobles come to age there, so you have the makings of a very nice expansion force. Convert the populace to Catholicism to make the pope like you.

    Battles: I'm still working out a Medieval II mindset here, so much of my strategy is leftover from Rome. The trouble is that my spearmen aren't phalanxes. Oh well. Typically, the enemy tries to flank. Not a problem if you have lots of light and heavy cav to chase them off. Then, they're without cavalry, except for the heavy stuff they plan to charge up the middle. This is usually (stupidly) their general. My spearmen typically get pushed, and occasionally rout. Not a bad thing. Then I move my cav back in and squish the center assault. It seldom works out this nicely. Thus far, I've always been on the defense when fighting in the field, so this strategy works nicely. Haven't gotten longbows yet - when do those show up? Also Armoured Swordsmen would be nice. What buildings do I need for them? Also, again, does anyone know how to check the difficulty level in a game?
    Parmenion: "Were I Alexander, I would accept the terms of Darius."
    Alexander: "As would I, were I Parmenion."

    "Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
    - Stalin

    "Next time you stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face."
    - Malcolm Reynolds

  6. #66

    Default Re: England

    campaign: hard Battles: Very Hard

    I found it best to start the campaign by completing the missions and conquering the UK.

    I then established strong alliances with Spain and the Holy Roman Empire, thus surrounding France with enemies. Use trade rights, map info, and monetary gifts to gain good favor with them.

    Using these alliances and my 2 cardinal votes I got my cardinal elected. Note that it is extremely important to watch your cardinal's retinue and characteristics to elect a pope favoring your upcoming plans. The manual explains how to groom your cardinals.

    Using the pope and longbowmen France was unable to wage war on me or take my lone continental province of Caen.

    Ignore attacking present day France and instead join (or call) a crusade and establish a base in the east. Do your main campaign expansion here. This avoids all the problems with fighting catholics.

    I ended my long campaign by conquering the east coast of the mediterranean from the rich Egyptian provinces all the way into the Byzantine's empire. Remember the Mongols will pose an enormous threat in this area so prepare for them.

  7. #67
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I tried playing England once, but have, well I wouldn't say failed, more like am stuck. I have blown 2, count em 2 armies trying to take down Caernarfon. That is mainly because I never get to exploit the power of the Longbowmen, because all my battles have been seiges, and my spearmen and billmen just absolutely get wiped out by even the Welsh Longbowmen although I can't help but be pleased ) . Man those defense bonuses are killer, but I gotta ask. How dya'll do it? Do you maintain seiges and just wait 'em out, that's how i did it in M1, or dya try to lure them out so you can effectively use your Longbows?
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

  8. #68

    Default Re: England

    Quote Owen Glyndwr: I tried playing England once, but have, well I wouldn't say failed, more like am stuck. I have blown 2, count em 2 armies trying to take down Caernarfon. That is mainly because I never get to exploit the power of the Longbowmen, because all my battles have been seiges, and my spearmen and billmen just absolutely get wiped out by even the Welsh Longbowmen although I can't help but be pleased ) . Man those defense bonuses are killer, but I gotta ask. How dya'll do it? Do you maintain seiges and just wait 'em out, that's how i did it in M1, or dya try to lure them out so you can effectively use your Longbows?

    Some people consider it a Bad Thing to use cavalry on sieges. It's not. It's tricky, but in small castles and towns, it's useful. Even though it's Lots of Fun to take out a castle with a small strike force, it's also not a Bad Thing to outnumber the defense by several hundred.

    You want to use Spearmen and Billmen if you have them (it's not a Bad Thing if you don't. Also be sure to have a few units of Mail Knights and Hobilars. Quickly engage the melee troops that are protecting longbows. This can be done by simply charging your infantry at the longbows, and then the enemy infantry will engage you. Or, you could charge some Hobilars at them and see if you get a few before you have to pull back. Go around the back of the Longbows and charge the dying nightlights out of them with Mail Knights. Watch out for spearmen, though.

    One strategy that I kind of did accidentally is to deploy at a part of the castle that has lots of buildings and a kind of crooked path in between you and the square, where the longbows are, and where the main melee might be. This minimizes their effectiveness. Be sure to give your spearmen leather armor or better.

    If you feel Really Confident, have two rams attack two different gates, each force consisting of some cav and infantry. This way, the enemy might split their forces. Or they'll leave one gate undefended, so you can do a lightning flank with one gate team. Have fun!

    Caveat - I haven't tried the last idea, but I think it'll work.

    Edit: You have longbows already? How? Caernafon is best taken out early.
    Last edited by pianonator; 01-08-2007 at 19:06.
    Parmenion: "Were I Alexander, I would accept the terms of Darius."
    Alexander: "As would I, were I Parmenion."

    "Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
    - Stalin

    "Next time you stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face."
    - Malcolm Reynolds

  9. #69
    Member Member Dead Knight of the Living's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I have a couple of items to discuss.

    First. I agree on the part about the Billmen. Maybe my brain is fired, but didn't someone post a mod to fix the Billmen. If they did and any of you know where or how to do it please let me know. I don't even recruit them anymore.

    Second. I haven't really noticed a problem with an "underpowered" cavalry charge. Though my cavalry doesn't really crash into the opposition like I'd like them too. They kind of pause right when they hit the enemy, but I notice the enemy lose a satisfying amount of people. Satisfying to me I mean.

    I just got the game at Christmas and only started playing it two days ago. I'm playing Hard campaign/Very Hard Battle.

    I've conqurered just about all of France except Bruges, Rheims and the city in the Southeast corner by Genoa. I forgot the name of it.

    I've conquered Ireland (but lost it to the Scots), but I"m now on the offensive in Scotland. I took Edinburgh and just assaulted Iverness.

    Here's a question for the crowd. My general died while I was assaulting Iverness. Immediately the battle ended and went to the Battle REsults screen. It was a defeat for me. So far that's the only time I lost a commander. Is that supposed to happen in this game? Your commander dies and you automatically lose the battle? That's horse droppings if it's true.

    Secondly. I agree with all the approaches to the English Campaign. Just wanted to throw a little tactic that I stumbled on accidentally that some of you might want to try intentionally.

    Scotland does leave you alone much at the beginning. Well, once they did grow a sack and decided to attack me I built up a full army and put them on a boat so Scottish spies couldn't see it.

    The Scots then assaulted York and took it. The Scots throughout the game I learned have one major field army and usually independent units or a minor field army wandering somewhere else. So, I sent my army on boats north of York and waited for the Scots to take York over.

    They did. I besieged York and forced them to attack me by waiting out the Siege. They ended up attacking me earlier (thank God/ 8 turns would've sucked) with their minor field army. I waxed them all. The Scottish military out in one simple fell swoop.

    I garrisoned York and went to Edinburgh and Exterminated the population. It was effortless. I then marched unopposed to Iverness where I had that little issue with my general dying. But in two more turns I'll be back there with 1500 troops to their 200 or so and I'll exterminate them easily. (My general will not engage in this fight).

    Then I'll march to Dublin which is guarded by a few units. Scotland... gone in a flash of light.

    This game is pretty good though. NOt as bad as I initially thought it would be; but it could definitely be much better if they'd fix the bugs.
    "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake."
    -Napolean Bonaparte-

  10. #70
    Member Member Dead Knight of the Living's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I have a couple of items to discuss.

    First. I agree on the part about the Billmen. Maybe my brain is fired, but didn't someone post a mod to fix the Billmen. If they did and any of you know where or how to do it please let me know. I don't even recruit them anymore.

    Second. I haven't really noticed a problem with an "underpowered" cavalry charge. Though my cavalry doesn't really crash into the opposition like I'd like them too. They kind of pause right when they hit the enemy, but I notice the enemy lose a satisfying amount of people. Satisfying to me I mean.

    I just got the game at Christmas and only started playing it two days ago. I'm playing Hard campaign/Very Hard Battle.

    I've conqurered just about all of France except Bruges, Rheims and the city in the Southeast corner by Genoa. I forgot the name of it.

    I've conquered Ireland (but lost it to the Scots), but I"m now on the offensive in Scotland. I took Edinburgh and just assaulted Iverness.

    Here's a question for the crowd. My general died while I was assaulting Iverness. Immediately the battle ended and went to the Battle REsults screen. It was a defeat for me. So far that's the only time I lost a commander. Is that supposed to happen in this game? Your commander dies and you automatically lose the battle? That's horse droppings if it's true.

    Secondly. I agree with all the approaches to the English Campaign. Just wanted to throw a little tactic that I stumbled on accidentally that some of you might want to try intentionally.

    Scotland does leave you alone much at the beginning. Well, once they did grow a sack and decided to attack me I built up a full army and put them on a boat so Scottish spies couldn't see it.

    The Scots then assaulted York and took it. The Scots throughout the game I learned have one major field army and usually independent units or a minor field army wandering somewhere else. So, I sent my army on boats north of York and waited for the Scots to take York over.

    They did. I besieged York and forced them to attack me by waiting out the Siege. They ended up attacking me earlier (thank God/ 8 turns would've sucked) with their minor field army. I waxed them all. The Scottish military out in one simple fell swoop.

    I garrisoned York and went to Edinburgh and Exterminated the population. It was effortless. I then marched unopposed to Iverness where I had that little issue with my general dying. But in two more turns I'll be back there with 1500 troops to their 200 or so and I'll exterminate them easily. (My general will not engage in this fight).

    Then I'll march to Dublin which is guarded by a few units. Scotland... gone in a flash of light.

    This game is pretty good though. NOt as bad as I initially thought it would be; but it could definitely be much better if they'd fix the bugs.
    "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake."
    -Napolean Bonaparte-

  11. #71
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Ok, thanks for the help, the english campaign was my first, and I think I was jes used to my powerful roman legions mowing down everyone stupid enough to get in their way (which was pretty much everyone considering it was the ai ) Yeah, I was a little slow to get gowing on taking out Wales, and focused more on sucking up the towns near Caen (i.e. Antwerp, and whatever the town is in Brittany). And while I was doing this, I was building Caen into a powerful castle and got Longbowmen on i think around 20th turn or so. I also encountered the same problem as dead knight of the living, how my cavalry stupidly stop right in front of the enemy, which is frustrating because that makes a cavalry flanking action nowhere near as decisive as it was in Rome. This causes most of my battles in M2 to be full-on head to head slaughterfests where I lose 200 men against an army with 500 (compared to the average 35 I'd lose in Rome, even when I was outnumbered while seiging). Its a little frustrating, but hey! at least i get to see all the neat little stabbing and decapitation animations the CA added, great job guys! Now we jes need to work on the head falling off when they decapitate!
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

  12. #72

    Default Re: England

    Yes, I have noticed that cavalry problem too. Make sure you tell them to charge from a fair distance away, and make sure they are all formed up when you give the order. DO NOT change targets midway. If you have to break off, tell them to go somewhere else, and make sure they're running. If they're not, click on the run button in the corner. That's another problem with cav - they tend to walk everywhere, even if you double-click.

    Dead Knight of the Living, you probably lost the battle because your moral was so low that all your units began routing the instant that your general died. When you lose a general, it's a massive hit to moral, and if your units are on the breaking point, it turns into a massive rout.

    What building does one need for Longbows and Armoured Swordsmen?

    Again, does anyone know how to check the difficulty levels during a game?
    Last edited by pianonator; 01-09-2007 at 23:05.
    Parmenion: "Were I Alexander, I would accept the terms of Darius."
    Alexander: "As would I, were I Parmenion."

    "Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
    - Stalin

    "Next time you stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face."
    - Malcolm Reynolds

  13. #73
    Member Member MilesGregarius's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Quote Originally Posted by pianonator
    What building does one need for Longbows and Armoured Swordsmen?
    Longbowmen show up with the second level archery range, I forget its name, the one after bowyer. It's always a priority for me in Nottingham and Caen.

    Armoured swordsmen come considerably later. I think you might need your castle upgraded tp fortress or even citadel level to get them.



  14. #74

    Default Re: England

    Quote Originally Posted by MilesGregarius
    Armoured swordsmen come considerably later. I think you might need your castle upgraded tp fortress or even citadel level to get them.
    Armored Swordsmen come from the fourth-level barracks, and I'd give just about anything to have them avalible at Nottingham from the beginning, to deal with the Scots.

    Two other units of note, and how to get them:

    Sherwood Archers: These Robin Hood wannabes have incredible range and power, but small unit sizes and high upkeep. If you have a really good economy, they might be worth it. They come from the Woodmens’ Guild. There is a chance you'll be offered the opportunity to build it every time you train longbow units in Nottingham.

    Templar Knights: Templars help make up for England's heavy cavalry deficiency. Move a character with high chivalry to a fortress, and begin pumping out knights each turn. This gives you a chance at earning a Templar Guildhouse. Bigger guildhouses give experience bonuses that stack with tourney fields. Combine that with the highest-level smith, and you’ve got a really incredible unit, for roughly the same cost as the English Knight. I totally and unequivocally recommend this, especially when fighting France. Don't let them have any advantage over you!

  15. #75

    Default Re: England

    Some other pointers:

    Get the 2H Animation Fix, so that you can actually use Billmen: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74094

    England’s strategy for the past thousand years has been to have no permanent allies, just permanent interests. While this is true to an extent for every faction, you actually have a secure power base to build from early on, so you will always be in a position to undermine whoever is strongest on the Continent.

    Sieging Dublin during the first five turns will marganalize the Scots. I’ve never managed to get to Iverness before they do, but getting to Dublin is easy via boat from Caen. Doing this will leave them with one town and one castle, while you can quickly swallow up York and Wales, too. After that, it’s just a matter of attrition. You can afford the losses, they can’t. Eventually, they’ll put a nice portion of their men on a boat, and sail down the eastern side of the island. That’s the perfect time to attack.

    Fill Great Britain with paved roads, and keep a single castle (I picked Nottingham, for it’s central location), and a stack on hand to blunt naval invasions from Denmark or Portugal. Both of these factions will need to die, sooner or later, but you have other problems, first.

    After wiping out the Scots, your enemies will be France and the HRE. Make an alliance with France as quickly as possible, so that everyone will blame them when they betray you. This will cause them to lose standing with the Pope, and that will keep him from interfering for a long while, as you swallow up their lands. As I said above, fill Europe with Templars or Hospitilars.

    Speaking of His Holiness, the first pope needs to die, and the sooner the better. Seriously. He’s a very fair man, and for a dirty, underhanded dealer like you, that’s bad. You need an Englishman in Rome, or at least someone from one of your current allies.

    Milan will probably be your third enemy. As an aggressive, expansionist power, they have never failed to draw the Pope’s ire in any of my games, so they question isn’t rather or not to call a crusade against them, but when.

    If they’ve gone to war with either of your first two enemies, it might be in your best interests to let them both bleed themselves dry, constantly aiding both sides with regular injections of cash. Have an army ready for a crusade the second Milan betrays you. If the war with France is going well, and if Milan is not at war with any of your enemies, it might be prudent to nip this little potential problem in the bud early.

    Crusades into the Holy Land are great, but make sure you aim them at a castle, either a nice, developed Turkish one, or a small rebel one, if any still exist. Jerusalem is nice, but hard to control, where as castles are easy. Bring many agents with your army. Once you’ve acquired your objective, spam priests each turn, and begin converting the Middle East, to ease your eventual conquest and undermine the Muslims. The Middle East is a great place to train cardinals, so start assassinating your enemies’ priests.

    Now, go forth and conquer!

  16. #76

    Default Re: England

    In my latest game as England on H/VH I marched straight on after taking York and reached Edinburgh before the Scots had taken Inverness, my spy opened the gates and it was bye bye Scotland very early in the game. This leaves the remaining Scottish ( now rebel ) armies and settlements to deal with at your leisure with no pressure from the Pope.

  17. #77

    Default Re: England

    I've been playing mtw2 for a few weeks now and I've just started a new campaign as England. the problem I'm having is when attacking a city i seem to be takeing huge casualties compared to what im use to in rtw. Is there anything I can do to make things a bit better.

  18. #78
    Member Member XiahouPing's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    If you're taking casualties from the towers, try and have a few ladders and/or towers spread the fire from your rams. If you mean from just general fighting, make sure you aren't using unit types that are weak against what the enemy is using.

  19. #79

    Default Re: England

    I'm playing an England game right now and I went after Scotland from the onset. I gathered up every troop I could spare short of emptying my 3 cities/castles , bought up a load of mercs and hit Edinburgh on, like turn 3 or 4. Bypassed right past York. Turned the Scot's 2 roaming armies into rebels. After that, took the rest of the British Isles at my leisure. Portugal came up and took that city just east of Dublin, can't remember the name, so I had to declare war on him.

    Eventually France came after Caen allied with the Portuguese. Pretty amusing fight. They attacked with over 1000 men to my 600. I had Armored Swordsmen by then and billmen. Of their 1000 men they had 1 ballista plinking my wall, so I decided to sacrifice a Mailed Knights unit to destroy it. It worked. I couldn't close the gate though so I was ready for a tough assault but it never really came. They hit the gate with a couple units of cavalry, but the Spear militia bounced them easily enough. Creative Assembly really needs to fix their siege AI. They managed to get one ladder group to the wall and the almost entire 1000 man army tried to climb those 3 ladders, with the gate open right next to it! I just moved up a swordsmen and billmen to kill them when they reached the top of the wall, rotating them out when they tired, with the general rallying them when their morale was low. It was carnage.

  20. #80
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    I managed to turn my campaign around. After losing yet another army to Caernarfon, I have finally come to a revelation. Much like the English in the 100 years' war, the power of the English lies in their longbows. However, i never get to use them in seiges because the walls make the longbows fire arching shots which doesn't do much damage. Which brings me to my first point Never Under any circumstances should you EVER let your longbows fire arching shots. All it ever does is wastes valuable ammunition. You always want to manouvre your archers into a position where they can fire in a straight line, which means dont but longbows right one behind the other. My second point is this, you will almost never win seiges while your assaulting, especially in the early game, and if you do win, you'll incur heavy losses in the process. (this is coming from someone who is about 35 turns into the game and just got to feudal knights however) So, unless you have seige equipment, it is best to wait for them to attack you. When they come to you, their defense bonuses are gone, making them easier to kill, and you can bring the full power of your longbows to bear. For example, in the seige of Caernarfon, the first 3 fights were a waste of time, money and troops. However, the next time I waited it out, they sallied forth, and my longbows killed almost the entire army before they even reached me. Afterwards, it was a simple massive flank and i had won with only 35 men lost. The third point I will make is this: Your spearmen are pretty much worthless, they can't take a cavalry charge, so dont try it. it is better to lure the cavalry out into the open ground, place a few spearmen and cavalry nearby to keep theirs at bay, and waste half their cavalry force with longbows. After this, fix their cavalry with a few spears (make sure you'll do the chargeing, as your spears cant take a jit very well) and just flank them several times with whatever you got, which brings me to my final point. You pretty much have no cavalry, so you'll need to find other means of providing that shock I usually only bring along a few divisions of cavalry. A lot of my flanking I do with longbows. I fix with either spear militia or billmen. and then flank with maybe one mailed knight and whatever longbows i got. This usually works pretty well. If you can, try to completely envelop their cavalry. Like chariots, if you split their force up, even that invincible General's Bodyguard goes down quick. With tese strategies, I managed to take over all of france (except for Marseilles), wales, and Ireland. I finally got Yeoman archers and feudal knights in Nottingham, and am building an army to destroy Scotland. Then I am going to attack the Milanese who just stabbed me in the back. With England, once you pull away from the Roman Infantry can take anything mentality, they are pretty much unbeatable.
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

  21. #81

    Default Re: England

    Let me clarify the siege points that have been made.

    Once you have Armored Swordsmen and Dismounted English Knights, then you can attempt sieges without catapults or trebs. Not before. Your early infantry are simply unsuited to taking walls or gates. Spearmen are disposable horse killers, and billmen aren't wearing any armor. Swordsmen are a match for any infantry on the continent, and DEK are simply killing machines. None are very good at tight battles. Your lack of shock troops, combined with the trouble most new people have with horsemen (denying you an excellent means at sapping enemy morale), means you will incur large casualties in very early battles. That's why I suggested attrition. Set your empire up where you can afford the casualties, and the Scots cannot. Once you have control of the islands, you’ll be an economic force to be reckoned with, and you can tech up until you have a decent front line.

    When I assaulted the city in Wales, I simply brought peasants with me to do the ramming and charge the breach. Who cares if they get slaughtered by the towers? They're pawns. They can die like pawns. Let the enemy wear themselves out killing the rabble, then send soldiers to batter them into submission. Every arrow one of them takes is an arrow that's missed one of my real soldiers.

    . . . I think I may just be too good at this “king” thing.

  22. #82

    Default Re: England

    Yes, there is a huge difference between sieges here vs. Rome. In Rome, your Roman infantry were invincible and unchallenged on foot. Here, the nations are on fairly even footing, so you'll find (gasp) a fair fight. It is not that easy to mount a foot attack as England early in the game, because Billmen are a little broken and Spearmen just don't act like they used to. I prefer the "knock knock" approach to sieges. Fight those big armies in the field where you can actually use your strengths, and then force the tiny remainder of their army back into the city. Then do the one-turn catapult siege so they don't have time to reinforce the city. If they won't engage you, siege them and wait for them to sally. Wait with Ballistas and longbows pointed at the gates.

    I thoroughly agree with Malkut - peasants and Town Militia are great for scratching that rebel-town itch.

    Seriously folks, I've been hearing a lot of trash talk about English Cav - sure, it's not the best, but I took out France in the early game with nothing but Mailed Knights and Hobilars. Oh, about those Hobilars - those little buggers are FAST. In Medieval 1, I had whole armies made of Hobilars, longbows, and spears. Of course, cavalry was waaay overpowered in that game.

    Defeat the Persian Navy by Land. Defeat your enemy garrisons on the field.

    Edit: Pilgrims - useful at ALL?
    Last edited by pianonator; 01-19-2007 at 07:06.
    Parmenion: "Were I Alexander, I would accept the terms of Darius."
    Alexander: "As would I, were I Parmenion."

    "Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
    - Stalin

    "Next time you stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face."
    - Malcolm Reynolds

  23. #83

    Default Re: England

    Taking caenarvon early pre siege equipment pre heavy infantry

    I took caenarvon in my first game by running 1 unit ( you need numerical superiority and lots of ladders) on the walls to open the back door. Then rushed all the cav in the back way. If you clear out the city square the units that where previously on the walls will head towards the square. If you have a big gang of generals and mailed knights in the square the welsh spears and longbowmen should be easy especially if you can deal with each piecemeal.

    Other points:

    Gallowglaich ( or whatever they are called) can be hired in ireland I think. Pretty effective infantry for early assaults. Taking dublin first might be easier route to victory.

    Waiting out the siege with a small cav heavy force might work. When the enemy sally you just hang back and deal with the spears and bows on the field, then run round using my sword of the infinte +10 and kill the goblin king!
    Last edited by Nepereta; 01-17-2007 at 12:13.

  24. #84
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    It all goes back to my signature. You have to recognize your advantages and faults before rushing in to battle. Your early infantry is incapable of doing anything other then pinning a stopped enemy for about 50 seconds, billmen, even less than that. However, Longbows mow down anything standing in their way. With cavalry being pretty much the same as everyone else's, you need to utilize your longbow. In Rome, my army makeup used to be 4 cavalry (for 2 on each flank) 1 general 3 archers and the rest are the heaviest infantry I can make. I rarely actually ended up using my archers, it usually was a huge pin made by my infantry, follwed by flanking hit after flanking hit, going down the line with my cavalry. However, now almost half of my army consists of Longbows, maybe 3 or 4 spears, Dismounted Feudal Knights, and the rest are mailed knights. Just as in the 100 year's war, when the english pull the impetuous French out onto the field, they get absolutely wiped out with very little English casualties (i.e. Agincourt, Poitiers, and Crecy) but later, the French began to hide in their castles more, and the English had neither the time nor money, nor the manpower to sit there and seige (even Edward III's seige of Crecy cost quite a few men and 6 or 7 months.) Usually it's best to draw them into the field, even if this means taking up to 6 turns to wait it out, it is usually better to do it. Either do that or bring in artillery, anything you can to avoid fighting on the walls. Defenders get bonuses to the point in which even peasants are useful, meaning your spearmen will be defeated by anything and I mean
    anything on the walls. It's the same with the Spanish, once you learn how to use the Jinetes, the Spanish are pretty much invincible.
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

  25. #85

    Default Re: England

    People might want to try the M2TW: Lite Mod. It's basically a bugfix that helps gameplay bunches, fixes the two handed thing, and adds Armored Sargeants to England's campaign roster (they're avalible for England in the custom battles).

    You still can't charge the walls with them, but at least the guys you're going to be putting in front of enemy knights are wearing something more than a raincoat and a shield.

  26. #86

    Default Re: England

    I've found DEK pretty useless; they die far too quickly and easily. I prefer the hardier DFK instead, especially if you're besieging and likely to come under a lot of arrow/xbow fire. The better defense allows them to get to the walls and up the ladders/siege towers and actually fight at the top of the wall and not rout in a panic. On an open field facing no missiles DEK might be pretty good but I almost never have such a situation.

    Pilgrims are certainly useful to draw fire; set them on loose formation so they last a little longer. But they're otherwise not much good.
    Last edited by gardibolt; 01-18-2007 at 17:57.

  27. #87

    Default Re: England

    That's why I never use DEK exclusively. Dismounted English Knights are psychotic madmen who forsake the personal protection of a shield in order to use a weapon that really, really hurts bad. It can indeed be tricky getting them past missile fire, but I find the results well worth it.

    Of course, by the time you actually get them, it would be cheaper just to bring trebs along with your siege forces than to replenish your army's losses from towers, so missile fire might be a bit of a moot point by then.

    DFK, on the other hand, are almost exactly like Armored Swordsmen, except more expensive, so I almost never use them except as a temporary measure. However, either unit will probably form the center line of your later-game armies.

  28. #88
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Yesterday I had literally a 3 hour battle. I was defending Angers with 3 bands of peasants agoinst the Milanese 3 Genoese Xbow militia, 1 general's bodyguard, and 3 spear militia. They came in with their militia and Xbows, and I beat them off. I was down to two peasant divs against thir 2 genoese Xbows, 1 spear militia, and General. They didnt move, and I waited for about 5 mins, and then took things into my own hands. I moved one peasant just outside of the gates, and when the general cam running, i ran inside the gatehouse, and the general turned around (even though a spy opened the doors for them ) So I did this for about an hour, and managed to eliminate the entire general's bodyguard (general included) I continued on to almost eliminate their last spear militia, but the Milanese finally got wise to my plan and answered my sallies with a hail of Xbow fire. So I was forced to charge, and just barely lost. 3 hours of my life wasted
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

  29. #89

    Default Re: England

    I had a similar battle. Well, sorta. I was in a Fortress under siege, and the attacking army just stood there forever. Didn't move at all. Has this bug been discussed before? I have patch 1.2 I turned on triple speed and read through the building tree until it ended.
    Parmenion: "Were I Alexander, I would accept the terms of Darius."
    Alexander: "As would I, were I Parmenion."

    "Death solves all problems. No man, no problem."
    - Stalin

    "Next time you stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face."
    - Malcolm Reynolds

  30. #90
    Deadhead Member Owen Glyndwr's Avatar
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    Default Re: England

    Oh well, it's all good. I managed to retake Angers the next time (the seige was actually of little importance as that army was there the whole time) Preseed on and took Rheims, Difon, and finally Marselles. Then I turned my attention northward. I took Edinburgh, but lost too many troopps, and lost the town 3 turns later from a full stack of Scottish (although i cant help but be impressed because my Yeomans managed to elimate almost the entire army). I rebuilt my army, pressed on disregarded a few cease and desist orders (my standing was perfect, and it only took my standing down 5, nothing 5k florins cant change eh?) and finished them off. On to Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and Portugal, who recently stabbed me in the back. Oh yeah Milan too! 3 front war FTW!
    "You must know, then, that there are two methods of fight, the one by law, the other by force: the first method is that of men, the second of beasts; but as the first method is often insufficient, one must have recourse to the second. It is therefore necessary for a prince to know well how to use both the beast and the man.
    -Niccolo Machiavelli


    AARs:
    The Aeduic War: A Casse Mini AAR
    The Kings of Land's End: A Lusitani AAR

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