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Thread: Holy Roman Empire

  1. #31
    Slaying Pagans near you! Member TeutonicKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Can the HRE win in a defensive mode? Playing the honorable, high-rep method, and simply teching up? Or do you absolutely have to go apeshit on your neighbors to stay afloat?

  2. #32
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
    Can the HRE win in a defensive mode? Playing the honorable, high-rep method, and simply teching up? Or do you absolutely have to go apeshit on your neighbors to stay afloat?
    Yup, they shure can. I remember one game where I initially I blitzed all rebel settlements accessable from my provinces. Also took Corsica, Sardinia and Malta (BigMap-mod) through a crusade. Next Rhodes and a new crusade secured Jerusalem, Acre, Antioch, Aleppo and Damascus. All of this before my first king, Heinrich, was dead. Need I say his traits was maxed out?!
    From here I just teched up and defended. At one point 6 cath-factions was x-ed for messing with me. I own the CoC and had a HRE pope since Gregory died (the first one). Eventually I winded up with the Danes, Sicily, Poland and Hungary as my vassals. Unfortunately I had to take out Milan and Venice but gifted their holdings to Sicily.
    Later I fought off both the Mongols and the Timurids. When the game ended all of America and the New World was well educated in the german language.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
    Can the HRE win in a defensive mode? Playing the honorable, high-rep method, and simply teching up? Or do you absolutely have to go apeshit on your neighbors to stay afloat?
    I tried this recently on H/H, and had some success. The thing is, even though you're surrounded by 8 countries who will have borders with you sooner or later, quickly grabbing all of the rebel settlements within your reach will force Venice, Poland, and Hungary to expand eastward, cripple the Danes' and Milan's expansion capabilities, leaving you with only France as a real threat (the Papal States and Sicily never really seem to bother me until I take the fight to them.)

    The key is to start fast, emptying your settlements so you can take rebel settlements. I haven't tried HRE on VH/VH yet, but I've found that I can beat all of the other countries to the punch to get 13 settlements within the first 10 turns without going to war with anyone (Hamburg, Stettin, Prague, Breslau, Magdeburg, Bologna, and Metz being the rebel settlements I take.) I could probably get 14 settlements if I pushed a bit harder (by beating Milan to Bern), and maybe even 15 if I fielded a navy fast enough to take Ajaccio. After that it's just a case of buying the Pope's alliegance and careful economic planning (turn Hamburg into a city, and at least one of Metz/Staffuen/Bern). At this point you'll quickly start raking in cash, enabling you to field a army big enough to take on all comers. Indeed, my biggest problem was the fact that, between my overwhelming military might and my alliance with the pope, no one seemed to want to take me on. I was still at peace with everyone after 30 turns, at which point I decided to turn agressive and started conquering Venice and Milan.

  4. #34
    Slaying Pagans near you! Member TeutonicKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Crazy Larry,

    I started a new game last night and did exactly that - major land grab of all the rebel settlements. I've been able to conquer the rebel places you've listed, and am sitting on a comfortable cash flow. Ajaccio was very hard to hold against Milan and Sicily, but they've apparently been warned off by the pope now. I'm at Reliable reputation, allied with the Pope, and only the French are truly trying to get me. They are at one cross, and I'm at ten, so I'm preparing to crusade them when they are excommunicated here in a turn or two. I'm alternating with the Turks on number one for military might.

    I've even gotten a Teutonic Guild already in Frankfurt. Not sure how that happened.

    Hate to say it, but I think turtle-mode is the true way to go with the HRE. Once you can get your finances sorted, you are in a pretty good position. :)

  5. #35
    Member Member Atalus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    played a short game and won. M/M by turn 62.

    Gotta say the unit roster for them sucks hard until late stages. Maybe Gunpowder will help a lot but using a lot of militia units in the Italian areas against the Milianese and Sicilians is hard.

    I played Expansionist and knocked out Danes, Milan, and Sicily in short order, in that order. Hungary didn't give me a problem with a full garrison at Vienna. But Poland liked to block ports for no reason and then call a ceasefire.

    overall you require some luck in your battles and a working mod for the bugs

  6. #36
    Member Member Mightypeon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Well, I thought I share my thoughts:

    In my game, I started with blitzing venice (I do not like seperated alnds and Venice starts with a port:P) and relativly quickly took both Venice and Raguza.
    Afterwards I quickly made peace.
    I used the troops from Bologna, Insbruck and Vienna for this.
    On the northern front, I quickly expanded taking Hamburg, Stettin, Breslau Magdeburg and Prag.
    To the west I took Metz, and, after some teching up/merc buying Antwerps and Bruges.
    To rack up happyness, I lead a Crusade to Antioch (yeehaaa, it was rebel at that time).
    However, desipite having full crosses, 2 pesky 10 star inquisitors burned everything that can burn in Italy. Inclduing my piety 5 heir.
    Therefore I used a mobile hit Squad of 9 heavily depleted units to kill pesky Inquisitors.
    From that on, I managed to get decent holdings in the Holy Land (snatched several rebbelious prvinces and I am still at peace with everyone:D), which should give me a good start for the next Crusade to Jerusalem.
    I kept Metz (Western Front) Hamburg (Northern Front) Mageburg (Eastern Front)
    and Rugza (South Eastern Front) as Castles to have a source for a good amount of troops.
    I changed Bologna into a Castle because ferrying troops from far away would ahve been pesky.
    I turned everthing else into cities.
    As neither the English nor the Scots seem to ever go on a Ship, I am quite content with my North Western front.
    Because of the highly oppourtunistic Byz, Getting a Strong Garrison at Rugoza is incredibly important.
    I had a larger than usual force at Wien (7 full units of various infantry with a Heir) which kept the Hungarians friendly.
    Milan engaged France quite early. The war made their crosses go down a lot.
    Sicily is so far a non issue.
    I did not take Bern to allow the Milanese and French to keep Fighting.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Well, in my game (VH/VH) both Scotish and English attacked me by see. They DO use boats and landings and where very strong. I dont know how they did it, but they dint fight one onether.
    Any way i thing that HRE has one of the best units in the game. A couple of imperial imperial, mounted and dismounted, some armored sergeants and couple of passive x- bows and you can handle just about everything. The only trick here is that you need more spears against the Mongols and the handle, and that is it. Afcourse your city army's suck, but not that much. If you dont like it check the Russians, the Pols, and the Hungarians.
    O, and HRE has the best economy in the game. Banks and printing presses. You have a ton of cash and one of the best armis.
    So yes, you really can play slowly whith them, but only after you take all the rebels, France, Britain and Northen Italy. After that you can wait until the end of time getting richer and snobby.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    I am trying to get the only decent ancillary but having some difficulty-

    Trigger hildegard_von_bingen_anc_trigger
    WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted
    Condition FactionType hre
    and SettlementBuildingFinished >= church
    and I_TurnNumber >= 20
    and I_TurnNumber <= 50.

    Do i interpret this right after turn 20 any settlement with a church which a general constructs something entitles you to the charactor.

    Does being excommed effect the chances.
    Can more then one general aquire the same ancillary or is it one only

    ta

  9. #39
    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Hi Pugwash! Although your question doesn't belong in a faction guide, I'll try to answer.
    Ancillary hildegard_von_bingen
    Type Religion
    Transferable 1
    Image court_elderlylady.tga
    Unique
    Description hildegard_von_bingen_desc
    EffectsDescription hildegard_von_bingen_effects_desc
    Effect Piety 2
    Effect Authority 1
    Effect LocalPopularity 3
    As you see she's a unique ancillary only one general can have. I changed transferable to 1, so I can hand her over to someone else. As long as I'm not concerned slavery is fine for me
    As the trigger says it's not enough if a church exists but the building just finished has to be a church or above. Hope this can help you.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    thanks explains the sole issue

  11. #41

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Okay what's up everyone, I'm an American so bare with my overly militaristic attack strategem haha.

    I just beat a long HRE campaign on H/H, so I'm going to offer some of my insight as to how I obtained this victory.

    1. Crush Denmark. By crush, I don't mean go in all happy go lucky and engage the field army they send to Antwerp, I mean break their siege of Hamburg (which they will most likely attempt) with your family member from Frankfurt and the army hidden to the north, and then head to Arhus with mercenaries recruited along the way. 1 turn siege, then BAM assault the city and take it 1, 2, 3. Guess what! Denmark is no more. Scratch one annoying neighbor to the north, and add some sweet Baltic/North Sea territories to your bank.

    2. Take either Stettin or Antwerp. I prefer Stettin as to avoid conflicts with England, France, and Scotland too early in the game. The fall of the western countries is inevitable, but not yet, a conqueror must show patience. Plus, Stettin is in the Baltic which turns into a wealthy little trade pond if you ask me, so go figure. Let the Poles take Magdeberg, if they're passive on the eastern front of your empire, then don't sweat it until you decide to move east into the slavic lands.

    *As you do all of this, make sure to take Prague, believe me, it WILL pay off. Make multiple trade agreements/allianaces, especially with the Italians, the Pope, and Hungary. Also, make Vienna your capitol. Trust me, when you are raking in 7000 gold by the time the Timurids arrive, then you'll know why haha. Make Frankfurt a castle, that way you can have Frankfurt, Hamburg, and possibly Magdeberg all producing tough level troops in the later game. Plus, Frankfurt has a higher population so it'll level up faster.

    *Dealing with the Italians*
    Kill/conquer/squash/batter/defeat/stomp/torch/raze/abolish Milan. A treacherous people so it seems, this faction is THE most bothersome, bar none. Argue it with me all you want, the Milanese are THE most annoying in the game due to their suprisingly large field armies that seem to pop up out of no where, not to mention the competence of their 'militia'. With Milan, I just went head to head with them and had to simply out-wit a computer. Grant it there was some luck, but Milan is the faction that NEEDS to get eliminated by the Germans in the early game, or else you just won't do well. Take Milan, take Genoa, and hunt them down until they are no more. The same kind of goes for Venice, but Iraklion is a pain, so whatever I own all of Europe in my game and Venice is just chilling in Rhodes, so I don't really care, its not like they can do anything to me haha. Sicily, depending on their stance in Africa and with the Moors could possibly attempt an attack on Florence or Bologna. If so, just send an army down and squash both their territories like with the others. If they have Norman Knights, just be wary and look for subtle map advantages that will tilt in your favor, assuming you have weaker units. Make Palermo a city (it was generating 3500 last time I checked, which is pretty good) and you're set there.

    Okay I don't feel like typing much more b/c I gotta run to work, I justed wanted to say how random my last campaign was haha. The superpowers before I absolutely swept the map were me (HRE), Portugal, Hungary, Russia, Byzantines, and the Turks (Mongols too of coursE). Idk, I thought Portugal and Russia being big was kind of interesting, but whatever.

    By the way, I am trouncing the Mongols right now. Apparently their power lies in their 10 star maxed-out-dread generals, so your best bet with a military confrontation with them on an open field is:
    A)Not facing them at all haha
    B) Attempting to assasinate their generals
    C)Waiting until they die of old age or combat, then going in for the kill on their armies


    I did C (unintentionally), and its working. I have gothic knights, forlorn hope, zwei handers, basically all good german troops, and i am taking mongol armies to town one full stack at a time. O well, thats all I gotta say really, IM me if you want to hear more: DrFeelgood787 is my screen name.

    PEACE
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    -Niccolo Machievelli

  12. #42
    Friendly Resident Knight Member Fußball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Atalus
    Gotta say the unit roster for them sucks hard until late stages. Maybe Gunpowder will help a lot but using a lot of militia units in the Italian areas against the Milianese and Sicilians is hard.
    What makes German units so 'par' in the early game is the almost complete use of the spear. Lucky for you almost every other neighboring faction uses as many spears as you do. Also fortunate for yourself is you have a beast at your disposal: mailed knights. They rip through anything early if you use them correctly. Your knights will turn your enemy's well and orderly line into meat paste with one charge and eat the remnants in close combat.

    And your spear-bearing Italian neighbors are nothing to fret over. Their militia statline may be slightly higher than your militia but you are German and your tactics will rule the day so long as you keep a good head on your shoulders. If you stay on the defensive you will have nothing to worry about against attacking Italian militia. Especially if you are holding a wall against an assault.

    And you always have your General with his bodyguard as extra punch which itself alone, used properly, can engage numbers three and four times it's own size on open ground. And in confined areas your bodyguard can rush in and provide close-in support with steel and valour if your spearmen cannot hold their own.

    If you really do not believe you can hold Florence and Bologna with their militia garrisons then your castle at Innsbruck can supply your garrisons in Bologna and Florence with better trained sergeant spearmen, mailed knights and armored spearmen. So long as you keep Venice out of the mountain pass from Innsbruck into Venice ( which the AI never seems to move into anyway ).

    If need be you always have mercenary spearmen which are the best spearmen available early on, if you can cope with the high upkeep. Mercenary crossbowmen are also abundant, and very powerful and have long-range crossbows early on. Of course they, like other mercenary units, have high upkeep.

    Tschüß!
    Erich


    Things are getting better. Well, not as good as yesterday, but definitely better than tomorrow! ~Old Russian Joke

  13. #43
    Man behind the screen Member Empirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    It seems really easy to get Teutonic Knights, which are some of the best knights in the game. They have very good attack and defense, a charge of 8, and in melee, they have armor-piercing maces! Right now I have a Teutonic guild in Hamburg and Magdeburg, and a master guild in Frankfurt, that is at turn 70. They eat everything I throw them at - except for some Milanese Duke's bodyguard, apparently (wiped out two units of Teutonics who had charged him from opposite sides... oh well!). They're very expensive, of course, so I have a third of a stack of them roaming the countryside, cleaning up pesky rebels blocking roads. This way, they gain experience without much risk, and I can send them to retrain in Frankfurt time and again. They're already getting into the silver chevron range... feel like attacking me some more, Frogs?

    When and how exactly do you get Landsknecht units?
    People know what they do,
    And they know why they do what they do,
    But they do not know what what they are doing does
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  14. #44
    Barbarian of the north Member Magraev's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    I've heard you only get landsknechts as mercs and only late in the game (after gunpowder probably).
    Nope - no sig what so ever.

  15. #45
    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    You can hire Landsknechte from 1470 on, i.e. turn 195 with vanilla settings. They are available over all central europe except northern Italy. But you get Swiss pikeniers there.

  16. #46
    Friendly Resident Knight Member Fußball's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Empirate
    It seems really easy to get Teutonic Knights, which are some of the best knights in the game. They have very good attack and defense, a charge of 8, and in melee, they have armor-piercing maces! Right now I have a Teutonic guild in Hamburg and Magdeburg, and a master guild in Frankfurt, that is at turn 70.
    Funny enough I built my first Teutonic Knights chapter house in Frankfurt as well! Then was asked to build one in Hamburg also. Eventually I was asked to build a headquarters in Frankfurt which I politely declined. I want to build the headquarters in Hamburg. That way they have higher experience from jousting and better quality armor upgrades. Seeing as how I have not yet built a leather tanner in Frankfurt.

    Tschüß!
    Erich


    Things are getting better. Well, not as good as yesterday, but definitely better than tomorrow! ~Old Russian Joke

  17. #47

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Any significant strategy changes for HRE under 1.2? I'm thinking I may try them next.

  18. #48
    Member Member Hermann the Lombard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Gardibolt,

    I guess the resounding silence is a "No, there are no significant changes."

    I've been playing an HRE campaign at my customary glacial pace. [Caveat: as a noob I'm playing on M/M.] I started by destroying Denmark and decapitating Venice (taking Venice and Zagreb but not Ragusa, yet, at Turn 56 or so). In the initial expansion took Hamburg, Arhus, Stettin, Antwerp, Magdeburg, Bern, and Florence. I converted most castles to towns keeping Innsbruck, Hamburg, and Bern as castles.

    Got trade rights with virtually everyone and alliances with France, the Moors (who were also allied with the Papal States--go figure), and Byzantium. Kept decent relations with Hungary and Poland but couldn't get Hungary to ally despite large quantities of florins.

    Got excommunicated along the way. Gave Florence and sustained florins to the Pope and was a good boy and reconciled before Gregory died. In the election I guessed right and became the fair-haired boy of the new French Pope (10 crosses). He didn't live very long but I at the next election I backed the right horse again and went back up to 9 crosses. Meanwhile I'm gradually accruing cardinals and am up to 4 right now.

    Milan attacked me--surprise surprise--so I took Milan and Genoa leaving their capital in Dijon with colonies on Corsica and (I found out later) Sardinia. Later I got a mission to eradicate Milan so I took Dijon and Ajaicco and my allies the Moors took Caligari and the mission was fulfilled. Presently I regret not picking off Metz as it represents a huge salient between Dijon and Antwerp. [I also mildly regret not grabbing Prague.]

    I got my short game victory by taking Oslo the same turn that Milan was destroyed, so now I'm continuing.

    Sometime in there I grabbed Bruges, sacked it, and gave it to the Pope to minimize friction with France. I quietly lost the alliance with France because they had allied with Milan just before I finished off Milan, but relations are still good...for now.

    Just as I took Ajaicco the Spanish landed a fairly strong army on Corsica. Predictably they promptly besieged Ajaicco and I was in no position to reinforce my troops there...who turned out to be barely strong enough to defeat the inevitable assault. I destroyed small Spanish squadrons off Corsica and off Valencia (I think) at which point the Pope told me to cool it, and I'm following that for now. My screen of spies, assassins and priests does not see any Spanish armies on the way.

    Speaking of the Pope, I have two armies on their way to Aleppo in the Second Crusade (having missed the First due to being ex-com).

    So at this point I've been at war with Venice since about Turn 2 and they have a large, low-quality stack down at Ragusa (presently killing small Sicilian landing forces). Someone took Iraklion from them so if I take Ragusa I think they will be gone. I'm not sure that I want to bother--and it may piss off the Pope--because they act as a buffer with my allies the Byzantines. My basic plan right now is to tech up and further develop my economy...which seems to be bringing in a profit of about 10K right now. I'm also about to take Stockholm to turn most of the Baltic into a trading lake (Hanseatic League, anyone?) Presumably everyone in the world is about to attack me, or at least France and Poland
    I have a mind like a steel sieve.

  19. #49
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Playing my first HRE campaign now, and so far have been focusing on Italy to the exclusion of pretty much everything else. Grabbed Hamburg and allied with the Danes who went on their usual route to take Brugges, Antwerp and Stokholm... Danes are no threat, they got plenty of money but no castles (Oslo is still rebel). To the East I allied both with Poles and Huns. Poles aren't a threat either, they got plenty of castles but no money. As for Huns, we have a marriage alliance, which should hold long enough. Allied with the Frenchies, but they are stagnating. Relieved Venetians of Venice, and without Venice they are a joke. Milan is my next target, followed by the Sicilians.
    Converted Bologna to Castle and I'm very happy with that decision: converted it to castle right after building town watch, which meant instant Armored Sergeants which were instrumental in defeating the Venetians.

    My plan is to completely secure the Italian boot, boot the Pope out of Rome and give him some dinky island (like Corsica) as a fiefdom. From then on I'll just take it easy, build up and do some serious turtling. Hopefully, the Byzantines or the Egyptians will become superpowers which will make it a fun mid/end game.

    P.S. I recommend *NOT* to hit Prague early, as that tends to overextend my armies and weakens my Italian front.
    Last edited by rvg; 06-12-2007 at 17:45.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  20. #50

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Germany has the easiest short campaign victory requirements ever. I just beat it in 31 turns, and I wasn’t even in a major hurry. The secret is to care about nothing but conquest and looting. Ignore diplomacy. Ignore the Pope. Ignore the economy, insomuch as you can. Ignore historical accuracy. Ignore sanity. You're German: you don't need sanity.

    Just keep gobbling up land and looting cities. Build at least one new unit in every city every turn, even if it’s just a bunch of town milita. Eventually, you’ll need knights and crossbowmen, but this is the early-early game. Just overwhelm everyone with numbers.

    You start big and strong, and your targets, the Danes and Milanese, are small and feisty. You’re also right in the middle of everything and everyone, so you aren’t going to run out of things to loot before you run out of cash. You can Hulk Smash the Danes by turn 2. If you keep gobbling up land and looting every city you come across. Take Venice as soon as possible to knock a very annoying enemy back quite a few paces. Milan might have a city on Corsica, so be prepared to build a boat once you’ve taken North Italy.

    Really, there’s not much else to say, here. Numbers, numbers, numbers, and speed.
    Last edited by Malkut; 06-21-2007 at 09:31.

  21. #51
    Member Member turnip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    This is my first real go at the HRE in M2TW (I never got very far in MTW either, so there you go), playing M/M. (1.02)

    The first turn is really important.
    - Take most of your Bologna garrison and head down to Florence. Venice usually plays nice for a few turns, so you can afford to wait the siege out if that's your preference.
    - Take most of your Nuremberg and Vienna garrisons and head towards Prague - you can siege it second turn and take it at your leisure.
    - Immediately siege Hamburg with the half-stack you've got hiding North of Frankfurt. Train some militia and send them up with your general next turn.

    - The siege of Hamburg is a feint, to encourage the Danes to go and pick another settlement. As soon as they've wandered off - either to Magdeburg or Antwerp - lift the siege and pay Arhus a visit. Hopefully, you can take Arhus before the Danes either return or take another settlement. With them gone, you can take Sweden and Norway in your own time.

    - Train some troops in Staufen and Frankfurt and send them over to Metz - the rebel garrison is small and should be easy to take out. Train some more troops in Staufen, add them to any you can get in Innsbruck and Metz and head for Dijon. If you're lucky, the French will have depleted the rebels there and they'll be easy pickings. Regardless of whether it's French or not, you'll want to take Bern next, but take a few extra men along with you to Switzerland.

    - Reinforce your army in Arhus and head South to take Hamburg and Stettin and make sure your Cardinal pops along for the ride. You may also be able to get Magdeburg depending on how quickly the Poles get moving.

    Once that's all done, you'll have 12-14 regions and an empire stretching from the Baltic to the Mediterranean. Try to get Alliances with everyone around you at the beginning (the Danes excepted), since it should keep them from backstabbing you for a little while at least and give you a little time to tech up. With that sort of starting point, it's really easy to consolidate, since even if you're attacked you've got enough provinces and money to crank out a full stack army in a turn and retaliate; the only question is whether to sit back or push for the win.


    In my game, I'm at Turn 58 and I've wiped out Milan and taken Venice, Zagreb and Ragusa from the Venetians. France attacked me and were excommed for their trouble - in the aftermath, I took Paris on a crusade - and I'm currently crusading against Naples after Sicily attacked Ajaccio.
    I also successfully crusaded against Jerusalem, donated it to the Pope, then took Gaza and swapped it for the Poles' Magdeburg before taking Cairo and, imminently, Alexandria.
    Hungary and the Poles are keeping stacks near Vienna and Prague respectively, but large militia garrisons seem to have dissuaded them from attacking so far.

  22. #52
    Slaying Pagans near you! Member TeutonicKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    I'm going to add one little tidbit here. I play the HRE quite often. My latest game I tried something different, and it seems to have worked out well.

    I converted Innsbruck to a town, and Florence to a castle.

    I know, it sounds crazy. Innsbruck as a castle is really not in a useful location except to defend the heartland from Italian aggression. If you aren't on defense, it's too far to do much good. Florence and Bologna are vulnerable with only militia troops. However, making Florence a castle has really buffed my capability of handling all the Italian warmongers. You not only have an easy location to get retraining, but you are also centrally located to form an army against anyone else on the peninsula.

    If I had it to do over again, I might try converting Bologna instead. Florence is just a little too far to support Venice once you capture it, even with paved roads.

    I also decided early on to make Frankfurt my "assassin center", Nuremburg my "spy center", and Staufen my "priest center". I converted Staufen to a town, and I try not to keep to many castle provinces close together. A third of my provinces are castles, and that seems to feel about the right balance of money to military. This time around I am using assassins liberally. I'm still playing high chivalry style, but I'm taking out as many agents and family members as I can. I've got three 10* assassins so far, and a major Assassins Guild in Frankfurt. :)

    Making sure that you are good buddies with the pope means you can use the Crusades against your neighbors. So far, my game has had three crusades. All three were declared by me, and all three were on western European targets. My plan is to take all of the western front first, before I march on the east. My people need their Lebensraum.

    Still haven't gotten to gunpowder yet, though. That is one of my holy grails in this game. :(

  23. #53
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    A quick question about piety: How do you go about raising that? And how do you make your priests so high in piety that they become promoted? My 6-piety cardinal got inquisitioned, and that horrified me since he was a darned cardinal. And what strategies have you for dealing with inquisitors? How do you get rid of them? As HRE they seem to pay especial attention to my family members. I've already lost 2 heirs to them, and this is only turn 30, and this despite my somehow having 6 crosses on the papal love list. Do inquisitors come looking for your people, or do you have to be within a certain range of them for it to work? And are inquisitors that annoying to other factions loved more by the Big Papa, for the sake of argument, say Spain?


    EB DEVOTEE SINCE 2004

  24. #54

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    The only answer to the inquisitors problem is the assassin. Inquisitors will always come. They appear from nowhere, in case there is a heresy in a province. The problem is that even when the heretic is dead, the inquisitor keeps on going to the another provinces. And since the AI hates you he keeps going for your people. In doesn't really matter haw much the pope likes you, ore what country are you playing. So kill them as soon as you see them, before they burnt to many man and get to strong. So if like to play on hard or very hard you don't have much of a choice, but to develop the assassin guild. One HQ is enough.

  25. #55

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    A quick question to the unit list posted further up:

    Does Pike and Halberd Militia only have 1 total defence? Doesnt that means that they drop like flies for any attacker? And the Halberd is not listed as a free upkeep unit, i tought all militia units was given free upkeep in cities with the relevant structures in place?

    Im just finishing of the landrush in the first turns as HRE: grabbing the rebel settlements, crusade against tunis completed and have gotten bogged down in war against denmark (they managed to get stockholm before i killed århus..). Now the Venetians, Milans and Sicilly have attacked (taking Corsica from rebels on the road to tunis wasnt a very popular move..both milan and sicily have attacked several times) and i retaliated getting Venice and are now building up to get the two main milan towns (im at turn 14 now). After Milan is out i can focus on killing Sicily every 7th turn (the pope has to be replaced...even at perfect relations and ally he is a reall pain in the a....)

    One fun epsiode as well: Had a mad scramble towards one of the baltic rebel towns against a polish army who tried to get there before me...i sendt the faction heir in and sieged ahead of the army since he was faster on horseback...funny thing is when the rebels sallied, they mostly got beaten down by my polish allies :)

    Im now trying to consolidate a wacked ecconomy and since i expect all other factions to turn on me sooner or later i plan to fill the towns with free upkeep forces to keep cost down and have some roaming stacks with reinforcement heavy castle troops for added defence.

    As for inquisitors: Wouldnt a comitted build of churces/priests keep them away?

  26. #56

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Unfortunately if you build more temples and kill of all the heretics on time, the inquisitors will only not appear in your land. But they will appear in another places and then come for you. Being bad christian will cos them to appear less, but been god will not stop them from coming out of nowhere. Althought in 1.1 and 1.02 they are a lot more passive and easy to kill from 1.0

  27. #57

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    my experience of the HRE on VH/VH have been somewhat different then those experienced here.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    From the gun


    taking as many rebel provinces as possible while making as many alliances as usual. While doing this i gained the reputation of very reliable. I managed to ally with every faction around me except for milan and denmark. I also managed to capture every rebel Provence in central europe as well as 3 of the rebel Jerusalem regions from a crusade (not Jerusalem itself the 3 above it). Although these proved costly to upgrade they will serve a great purpose to me in later game!

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Peaceful Times


    To my surprise i managed to keep at peace with every nation up till turn 60. During this time i had singed free army movement with most allies. But all was not well. My allies the French had recently come under siege from the blasted Milanese. I built 3 large stacks and sent them to my borders that used to be shared wit the French but now Milan. All my armies could do is but watch as the relentless Italians slay my poor allies while the council of nobles argue the cases of why we should or should not go to war. While the court argue and the French die my spies report vast expansion by my most faithful allies the Venetians they had just conquered all of Greece and was now pushing into north Africa and the Turkish occupied lands. While the danish were forced to push into Russia because of my early game expansion.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    A reason to Fight


    After 60 years of peace and expansion the council decides it shall stay peaceful until the vile Milanese attack Switzerland. the King was currently staying in the alps enjoying the thick snow when he had to retreat to the castle with only 1/4 of a stack of units against a full army. The HRE was at war for the first time the prepared armies begin there march into Milan from every direction. One thing seemed to be certain that there would be alot of bloodshed over the next few years as the Milanese had one of the best standing armies in the world. As the armies closed in one gifted diplomat seeked an audience with the Milanese king. The panicking king accepted the HRE as there rulers and protectors before one man was slain in battle.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Expansion, Expansion, Expansion!


    the council happy with its new lands now required more. There scouts reported of rebel lands on some isles just west of the west coast. Two small armies were sent to conquer the top of Scotland and Ireland. The two kings of these isles had been to busy fighting to expand. The HRE now has alot of money and no enemies the king sends out some armies in ships to far away lands to look for unconquered territories. While this is happening there had been much talk with eastern allies and them needing the might of our armies against the largest threat to the catholic world the turks! The king strikes a deal to give assistance against the infidels for a small province in eastern Poland. The armies sent to look for new territories are ordered to unload and besiege the coastal cities of the turks the Jerusalem provinces also scrape together a great army to besiege the turks. With the idea in mind to gain a few provinces and sue for peace i decided to send a diplomat to the turks to see if they want to surrender. To my astonishment they declare me there ruler and protectorate. The great Turkish empire consisting of 12 provinces now belongs to the HRE.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Foreign Ownership


    Now the HRE owns 18 provinces through vassles. on top off the 22 they already own victory is within sight while still holding VERY RELIABLE statis.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Summery of next 20 turns


    - mongols invade russia
    - England excommunicated for attacking HRE (irland)
    - England (3 provinces) taken by the bulk of the HRE armies
    - Denmark (russia) gets swarmed by mongols
    - Denmark attack HRE
    - HRE invade denmark (Scandinavia) while weakened with ease

    Now with the required 45 provinces needed (vassles are included in this) all that is needed is th capture of Rome. with very reliable reputation in tact and only attacking after being attacked i betray the papal states to finish what would be the most enjoyable game i have ever played.

    this just went to prove that war is not the only way with HRE (or the easiest)

    Cheers

  28. #58

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    So, you want to be Kaiser, huh? Theres more to it than looking pretty, that's for sure.

    I have just clocked onto what a good thing the teutonic knights are. the order/guild building means you can train what are in effect feudal knights in a city.you can leave your castles to grow, which is what they have to do fast to get to citadel level and start churning out imperial foot knights.

    perhaps it is a good idea to have more castles as the empire expands. it could cut the cost of developing towns and help to focus cash on the Italian/German places. plus maybe some castles on the outside might help compensate for having no "natural borders". so turn 30 on, Italy done, if i seize a castle from a rival, it stays a castle.
    But vain the spear and vain the bow,
    They never can work War's overthrow;
    The hermit's prayer and the widow's tear
    Alone can free the world from fear
    (Blake)

  29. #59

    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    wel i have given that Arhus ploy a twirl. it worked. the danes were eliminated, but i was excommunicated. do i care?
    relations with the pope have become worse and worse,culminating in a unfortunate battlefield accident when his holiness, no doubt deceived by his evil advisers, took the field against Otto Von Kessel and was killed during a well-timed stray cavalry attack. the kaiser considers this to be a case of death by misadventure, or open verdict at the very worst. however the pope-o-meter is now at rock bottom. just to be very clear,the holy roman emperor is in fact the most righteous defender of the church and the most loyal servant of the pope. however sometimes the emperor may query the trajectory of their policies, and structure of their institutions. the emperor wishes to commisserate with the new pope following a streak of bad luck affecting officers of the Holy Inquisition, those inquisitors who survive are always welcome guests at postal inns across the empire.
    But vain the spear and vain the bow,
    They never can work War's overthrow;
    The hermit's prayer and the widow's tear
    Alone can free the world from fear
    (Blake)

  30. #60
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    Default Re: Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
    Can the HRE win in a defensive mode? Playing the honorable, high-rep method, and simply teching up? Or do you absolutely have to go apeshit on your neighbors to stay afloat?
    It is possible but one have to realise that the only way to keep away your neighbours is to convince them that you have a larger force. Which is ofc not very feasible if you are scattered all over Europe.

    So, here is what I did on second try H/H, autoresolving all battles (on the first try I was creamed, almost, I had to fight out sieges on the battlemap to survive ).

    Since I wanted to play a high-rep game taking out the Danes and Venice, as suggested by many, was out of question. Also, holding Bologna is not really feasible as there is no way you can convince the Venetians that you have a larger army. So:
    1, sell Bologna to the Venetians and move your King to north with the garrison.
    2, Besige Hamburg with the forces you have nearby.
    3, Besige Magdeburg with the forces nearby.
    4, Send your troops from Nurenburg to capture Prague, send a few units from Vienna to help the siege.
    5, Move troops from Insbruck to besiege Metz, send help from Stauffen.
    6, get an alliance with the Hungarians (hungarian princess will visit)
    7, get a marriage alliance with Poland

    You really do not have to hurry with the siege of Hamburg and Magdeburg, feel free to sit out the siege. Besieging both castles has the benefitial effect that it will throw both the Danish and the Polish plans out of the window. They wont attack at this early stage, the Danish army started wandering aimlessly around.
    Capturing Prague is more important as it has a greater economic potential. The army capturing Prague moved on to capture Breslau.
    Once I captured Magdeburg (it is the smaller castle) I moved the troops to help the siege of Hamburg. After I captured Hamburg moved on to capture Settin.
    In the meantime the army capturing Metz moves on the capture Dijon. I left Bern alone as I knew that the Milanese will sooner or later attack and I wanted no contack with them.
    Also beefed up the garrison of Vienna with militias (half stack), and Insbruck with peasants and peasant archers (another half stack) to scare away the venetians.
    England and Spain offered alliance which I accepted.

    As reward you will get 4 FK, with some of the troops from Metz/Dijon I moved them to capture Bruege. Bruege has a good garrison it will resist weaker AI attacks for long, so it was still rebel. France attacked Antwert but was defeated so I took Antwerp too.

    The army capturing Settin is patroling on the Danish border and shadowing any Danish and English (yes they have an army marching accross north europe) movement.

    So all in all I managed to capture: Prague, Breslau, Settin, Magdeburg, Hamburg, Bruege, Antwerp, Metz, Dijon. I have an income (around 6-8k per turn) that I can keep all building queques busy.
    It is around turn 40 and the Polish and the Hungarians are solid allies (never had any problems with the hungarians and expect to Polish to hold out till the marriage alliance holds), the Danes are still sitting in Arhuus, Bern is still rebel but I do not mind it, the French have armies marching up and down near Dijon but I built up a half-stack of militia garrison to scare them away (so far it works), the Venitians attacked me after all (with 1 unit xbow besieging Insbruck!) but never made any serious moves, their armies are marching up and down near Venice.

    So atm it seems I have several options: (i) turtle and tech up to get DFK (spears are not very good on autoresolve vs italian militias) then move down and visit Venice; (ii) lure the Venitians, by weakening the Insbruck garrison, to attack Insbruck to get them excommed; do the same with France by weakening the Dijon garrison.
    Lional of Cornwall
    proud member of the Round Table Knights
    ___________________________________
    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

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