Holy Roman Empire

[katank]

Mounted sarges are cheaper and can still do a number on infantry with repeated charging.

Imperial knights don't look that great statwise but they have armour piercing maces which make them better against armoured targets than feudal knights.

Strategically, I find that securing Northen Italy and Denmark early on to be very useful. It wipes out some of your smaller neighbors and enables you to focus on other fronts. This avoids the 6 or 7 way crunch that often happens to the HRE come midgame.

[Skott]

I just finished a HRE short campaign. M/M settings. After reading this thread I decided on a rapid expansion as my early strategy. In the north I took Hamburg and Magdeburg first. In the south I took Florence. These were my opening moves. I left Hamburg and Magdeburg as castles. Florence remained a city.

I knew the Danes and Milan had to be eliminated as quickly as possible but I also knew I couldnt fight both at the same time. I sent diplomats out and made trade and alliance agreements with all factions except the Danes. They would be my first target. Milan I hoped would be peaceful for a while since fighting on two fronts is not something I wanted.

I struck Arhus first, the Danish capital. Although I captured it the Danes captured Antwerp first. I dealt a serious blow to the Danes but didnt take them out of the game. The Pope intervened so I was forced to wait seven turns before renewing the war. They offered peace and I accpeted and that helped keep them peaceful while I found other targets. And find them I did.

I took Stettin before Poland could get to it. Then I managed to get to Metz before the French and Milanese forces could. There I stopped my expansion of rebels cities because I didnt want to encroach on other factions and force wars. I spent time building and teching up but it didnt take long for Milan to realize they were now bottled up and wanted what I had in Italy. I played a defensive war against the Milanese troops in Italy. I wanted them to be excommunicated because once I started my drive I didnt want the Pope interfering. Venice stayed true to their alliance so I got lucky they didnt jump me from behind. Same goes for Polansd and Hungary. France kept their alliance for a while then they started blockading my ports. Once milan was excommunicated though France requested a ceasefire which I happily agreed to.

The Milan fight was tough. Their basic plan was a constant wave of troops aimed at Bologna and Florence. At first they started with about three units and kept increasing the number of units. At one point Florence almost fell but I rushed in troops during a siege and fought the Milanese to a standstill in the streets.

First let me make a few comments about street fighting. Street fighting is worse than in RTW because the AI pathing is much worse and the streets much more narrower for setting up in. In RTW you could tell the unit how to form up but in M2TW you cant get the cursor to work as well. Consequntly you have to get the formations set before sending them into the narrow parts of the streets but units in M2TW wont stay in formations and their pathing ability basically sucks. You cant get them all go the same way. The trick is to send a command to each individual unit. It works but its a slower process.

The one nice thing about M2TW street fighting is that you can choke a street with troops if you have enough and they got decent defense. Its not other infantry units that are a problem but calvarly IMO. Mounted knight units just bulldoze through their way through like a big lumbering tank and can take the hits while doing it. If you have a thick depth of units they wont break through. Too few troops or not thick enough and they will break through and once they get behind your men they do serious damage. Mounted knights are powerful in cities as well in open areas.

Anyway I managed to hold the Milanese in the Florence streets. They were cavalry heavy whereas I was spear militia heavy but their knights only used one street so I was able to mass my men thick enough so they couldnt break through. If the AI had used more than one street Florence would have fell.

It was at this point the Pope finally decided to excommunicate Milan. I went on the offensive now. Also I was now able to attack the Danes again. I moved my northern army to the Arhus port and sailed them to Antwerp. I wanted a quick victory against the Danes to put them out of the war before The Pope could intervene again. Antwerp fell in one turn to my overwhelming Northern army. The Danes ceased to exist except for some rebel mercenaries to the eastern region.

The fighting in and around Genoa and Milan went back and forth. I couldnt get into a siege fight wth them and they couldnt siege me either. It was alot of field fighting in the open and woody areas of that region. Finally through attrition I wore the Milanese down to where i could get my armies to siege Milan and Genoa. Genoa fell first. It had a exhausted small garrison by this time so they went down easily enough. Milan however was a tougher nut to crack. I laid siege and attacked twice before finally succeeding in taking it. Now I could focus on Bern and Dijon but before I could Pope Gregory died and although my guy was elected to the Papacy, Milan was reconciled. I even made a ceasefire and a trade agreement with Milan.

I used this time to rebuild my military and economy. First thing I did was disband all mercenary troops form all my armies. This kicked the profits way up so now I had money to build. I worked on getting my merchants trading. this helped the treasury greatly. The fishing and amber markets north of Arhus, the silver mine south of Hamburg, the silver mines and dyes southwest of Vienna were all putting alot of money into my treasury. The Pope also called a crusade to retake Antioch. I decided not to partake in it however. I kept the Pope happy with gifts of money so I didnt worry about his wrath.

During this lull in action I noticed Prague hadnt yet been taken. I thought for sure the Poles would have taken it but apparently they couldnt or hadnt tried. Wasnt sure which. Anyway I got a army over to lay siege to it. After a brief struggle prague was now part of my Holy Roman Empire.

After a few years I renewed my war with milan. I wasnt sure how the Pope was going to react though. Bern was now their capital. I sent three armies in to take Bern and Dijon. One army I sent to take Dijon which fell easily after a siege. Bern put up a stiffer fight but I had them outnumbered two to one and basically overwhelmed them at the walls and in the streets. The Kingdom of Milan no longer existed.

Having 18 territories and removing the danes and Milan only left me two territories left to complete the victory requirements. The crusade was still ongoing but only poland joined in. I thought this amusing. Usually several factions join in on the first crusade of the game but only Poland had joined and they didnt seem to be in a big hurry. In fact poland attacked me. They blockaded my Baltic ports of Stettin and Hamburg.

I was faced with a choice. Attack Poland and get my two territory victory condition or take Oslo and Stockholm and get it that way. I really wanted Stockholm and Oslo and I wanted the Poles to be my buffer between Russia, who I was allied with, but more importantly the Mongols if they showed up later on. The poles didnt seem interested in a land war so I let their ships do as they pleased. I built six cogs and a army of sergeant spearmen with some peasant crossbowmen and some ballista and sailed for Stockholm. Took it easily enough and then sailed for Oslo. When I took Stockholm the Poles asked for a ceasefire but wouldnt re-ally with me. I took Oslo and that ended the short game with all victory conditions met.

In my HRE game I found out that the HRE troops are strong in the beginning and get stronger as you tech up. The infantry performed well and I was impressed with my German knights. The Danes werent a match (I know from past Danish campaigns the Danes can do quite well) if went after them right away and as long as everyone stayed friendly it wasnt a hard campaign to play. In my campaign only Milan was a real problem. I got lucky that Venice, Sicily, and Hungary stayed true to the alliance. If they had entered the war on the opposite side my empire would have collapsed quickly. France did attack but as a naval threat only. They never came after me on land. They were locked in a war with Spain and Portugal so I guess they got a mission to blockade me and thats what prompted them to attack. They could have made my campaign harder as well.

My Holy Roman Empire stretches from Scandanavia in the north to Florence in the south. From Prague and Stettin in the east to Metz, Dijon, and Antwerp in the west. I ended the campaign at war with no one and allied to most factions. Thats kind of unusual in M2TW short campaigns. My man sits on the papal throne in Rome as well. Its a very solid empire. I intend to continue playing this campaign with the intent to take over all of Italy and Europe. I want to see how the HRE plays out in the late game. I expect great things from my German troops

So far I really enjoyed the HRE faction. I didnt think I would like it much at first because it looked like it would be a gankfest by the other factions but in my campaign the diplomacy worked well for me and I was able to more or less take on my enemies one at a time. Which is the way I prefer my battles in M2TW.

[pat the magnificent]

my tips as i approach 1300 on VH/VH

concerning the pope-
be super nice to the pope early on at the very beginning. always do what he says, no matter the cost. start no wars and only defend. BUT, as soon as you can field at least 6 priests and send them to russia. stick them in areas with 0-30% catholics until they all become cardinals (with at least one prefari). AT THE SAME TIME, make an assassin and start murdering captains, witchs, and pretty much any and everyone you can. always save before attempting to kill somebody (if you die or fail load it and don't bother trying again until next turn). As soon as your assassin gets about 8 subterfuge, send him to rome and kill the pope. (remember to save) next turn elect your dude pope. That more less takes care of the pope problem.

(its a good idea to keep sending priests to russia just in case you need to kill the pope again.)

-who to kill first

Venice, no question. you'll need armies with lots of knights to take care of their annoying pavise xbow militia units, and lots of heavy infantry to take care of their infantry militias.

what to do while you're killing venice-

firstly, make sure you only have 2 or 3 castles. with each castle set up to make a particular type of unit. I like to keep a city capable of making seige engines near each frontier, they just move too slowly to make them from only a single city. keep your frontier cities (and they SHOULD be cities, not castles) well garrisoned with militia crossbowmen and spearmen and at least a few peasant archer units to help take out siege engines. in your other settlements only keep enough units garrisoned to maintain order.

REMEMBER, EVERYONE IS GOING TO TRY TO KILL YOU-

Defence is key. only focus on one nation at a time. and always adjust your units to the roster of your enemy. merchants are definately worth your time. don't militia buildings in all but a few cities, focus on farming, roads, churches, and anything to increase trade profits. establish trade rights with any nation that hasn't yet attacked you. and for god's sake, keep your damned general and family members out of your cities (unless you have one of those exceedingly rare compenent ones, but even still they're better served as military commanders)

KILL THE DANES SECOND-

cause hey, why not.

FOR FIGHTING...

the poles- pavise crossbowmen and lots of them, always try to make him attack you, defending against those polish nobles if far easier than attacking them.

the hungarians- same as poles, plus bring along some teutonic or imperial knights to deal with their heavy infantry. i found them easier than the poles.

the byzantines- once again you'll need lots of pavise crossbowmen, balistae and cavalry are nice to take care of thier nasty heavy foot archers. its also much preferable to fight defensive battles against these shmucks.

Any of the italians- Heavy Cav and Heavy Infantry, you'll want units with maces and morningstars to dispatch the sicilians and the papacy due to their large numbers of heavy infantry (IE Imperial knights (mounted and non-mounted ) and Teutonic/Gothic Knights)

the frenchies- you want a well balanced force for them. halberd / pike militia units included, being that they have alot of cavalry. hopefully you'll have some zweihanders to chew through cavalry and infantry (use the pikes or halberd to receive the cavalry's charge then send the 2handers to dispatch them) I like to use Mounted Crossbows to kill their archer units.

the british-

basically the same as the french, except you can leave the pikemen home. strangely, the computer does seem to be using too many longbowmen in my campaign, needless to say this had made killing the english very easy.

Those are basically the only faction i've killed thus far, but its pretty easy to figure out what units to use.

[Braedonnal]

I tend to pack up and ship out of initially poor and underpopulated Germany and begin a new wave of Völkerwanderung. Seeing as there can only be 'one' Empire, I head to Cornith and conquer north and east until I hit Constantinople/Niacea and you can do this with your starting units if you have skill on the battle map.

Note: Be sure to make lots of alliances and milk money out of your neighbors for trade rights and map information before leaving Germany. You need that cash when you let Germany rebel away or gift it to the Pope (or both).

Initially, you are very isolated and not exactly in a defensible position, as Hungary will have Sofia by the time you get there and Venice is always threatening from Ragusa, but with some patience and skill you can gain those lands for yourself and settle in. Venice tends to give me nothing but grief so I have to eliminate them (damn suicidal AI) but after that things seem to quiet down. Hungary will continue to play around with you because of Sofia but with your excellent castle units you can deal with them. I hold for a time in the west and focus on the east with both agent and military conquest.

Pros: Wealth, faster access to high end units, easy Crusades and easy access to non-catholic foes. Oh, a pro for enjoyment is watching the power vacuum in Germany.

Cons: Initial difficulty (one shot of bad luck and you could be done), extreme poverty before you take your new homeland and strange AI behavior (seems they don't cope well with the HRE in the Aegean littoral).

Give it a try. You'll have fun, win or lose.

[sapi]

That sounds almost as fun as my venetian experiment in the holy land - i have to give it a try.

Still, i don't understand why everyone fears the pope - he can't hurt you.

After my recent actions as milan i'm going to make a habit of killing him around turn 5 (as the hre i just ignored him and suffered the excommunication, before finally wiping out the entire college of cardinals).

If you're any good on the battlemap you can smash his amies, pick up rome and get a good pope elected very early on.