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Thread: Venice

  1. #61
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Just playing around I came across what I call the Pentagram Opening. Forsaking everything else buy Bologna, launch simultaneous attacks on Milan and Genoa (after paying the Pope a visit), then Siege Florence. Your Dodge and faction heir should each lead an army which can easily take both cities, wiping the faction out. Then take the Dodge on a fort building spree, closing off passes and dropping a garrison unit there, while letting your heir await the Florentine sally.

    During this phase you should be awarded with largest army, most wealthy, and most advanced civilization titles in the first 10 turns. After that just specialize/convert your cities as you see fit. No where else on the map, not even the Holy Land, is there such a great opportunity for such an amazing start.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
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  2. #62
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Any advice on playing VH/VH? I’m attempting to play a game focusing on northern Italy and I want the Venetian heavy infantry more than the Genoese pavaise crossbowmen. Is the best way to secure the 5 cities in the north, turning one of them to a castle, and withdrawing all your troops to Italy? I’ve also found naval battle to be a pain. Venice was famed for their galley production but they don’t fare to well in combat.


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
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  3. #63
    The Ferryman Member trickydicky's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir
    Any advice on playing VH/VH? I’m attempting to play a game focusing on northern Italy and I want the Venetian heavy infantry more than the Genoese pavaise crossbowmen. Is the best way to secure the 5 cities in the north, turning one of them to a castle, and withdrawing all your troops to Italy? I’ve also found naval battle to be a pain. Venice was famed for their galley production but they don’t fare to well in combat.
    I'm playing the same setup at the moment, I blitzed the northern provinces, and then turned Bologna into a castle. This then pretty quickly provides you with your Venetian Heavy Infantry

    I also as you suggested pulled all of my troops back into Italy proper, and then took the war to the Sicilians. This then gives you another Venetian Heavy Infantry factory to the south (In Pamplona). Putting you in prime position to produce troops north and south. One for your conquest of Europe, and one for Africa.

    On a side note Venetian Heavy Infantry rock!

    God Paradox

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    Either God wants to abolish evil and cannot, or he can but does not want to, or he cannot and does not want to, or lastly he can and wants to.

    If he wants to remove evil, and cannot, he is not omnipotent. If he can, but does not want to, he is not benevolent. If he neither can nor wants to, he is neither omnipotent nor benevolent. But if God can abolish evil and wants to, how does evil exist?

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  4. #64

    Default Re: Venice

    In connection with Vladimir's Pentagram Opening, here's a few considerations;

    Consolidating northern Italy means facing a choice. Do you want to get excommunicated or not? Many players don't care, some do. So these tips are for those that do NOT want to peeve the Pope.

    Like others have said, BUY Bologna. First turn, ally with Germany and agree to 1000 florins per turn for 6 turns. Emperor Kraut-eater exits and leaves 6 units of merc xbows.

    Use the mercenary crossbowmen to immediately seige Florence!

    Then build to the point where you're ready to SIMULTANEOUSLY seige Milan and Genoa. Don't wait too long or those dirty Milanese will take Bern or something. The key is to eliminate them in one stroke and prevent any Papal warning. I seiged on turn 6 and finished the job on turn 7. Done and done.

    As a side note, the small force at Iraklion is able to lightning strike Corinth right off the bat. This strategy combined with the No-Excom-Pentagram is perfect for a Venetian short campaign.

    Happy killing!
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  5. #65
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    In 1.2 the map is small enough that you can form an alliance with and gift the Pope enough that a simultaneous attack on Milan's two cities that you'll only get a warning. Being his ally AND the most powerful nation in Europe reigns in his displeasure. Teh blizt is easy but it's VH/VH right?


    Reinvent the British and you get a global finance center, edible food and better service. Reinvent the French and you may just get more Germans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars
    How do you motivate your employees? Waterboarding, of course.
    Ik hou van ferme grieten en dikke pinten
    Down with dried flowers!
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



  6. #66

    Default Re: Venice

    My last campaign as Venice turned out to be really good. I attacked Milan and defeated them very early on, then moved on Florence and Bologna. From there it was a cake walk, and a crusade on top of upgrades in markets and sea trade buildings had me ridiculously rich. From there I took Sicily, and it was into the Balkans from there.


    Btw I took Zagreb next, and that city can be a cash cow if you build it up correctly.
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  7. #67
    Imperialist Brit Member Orb's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Just managed a beautiful opportunistic stab at Sofia and Bucharest with Hungarian help early on. It helps immeasurably at preventing a war with Hungary and also adds a great position for attacking the Byzantines.

    Edit: Well, 27 turns in I've wiped out the Byz. Hungary has just betrayed our alliance, which doesn't really concern me.
    Last edited by Orb; 07-24-2007 at 17:03.


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  8. #68
    Member Member The_crusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    When I first played MTW2 I just had to try out Venice(maybe it was because I saw shakspears Merchant of Venice......anyway),I did 3 test campains with them and I noticed that there is always an inevitable attack from the Holy Roman Empire.they will also strick a deal with Milan to attack you,the best way to get Milan off your back would be to send a princess and have her get married,then build as much merchant cavilers at Venice (they should be available at this point of the game and there not that bad for a cheap price....at that point of the game of course),the Holy Roman Empire will attempt to besiege your capital,and if that fails they will cut off there hostilities against you so you may have the rest of the game nothing but smooth sailing and bloody conquering....
    Emperor Constantine c.288 - 337
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  9. #69
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    The unfortunate problem with that idea is the Venice begins the game with no princesses and the faction heir starts married, so there will be no early marriage alliances. Buying Bologna from the HRE seems to keep them off your back. If you make nice with the Pope, you'll reduce your probable hostile neighbors down to 3: Hungary, Milan, and Sicily. Hungary is nowhere near the threat Milan is, and Sicily isn't that hard to hold off, but Milan needs to go quickly, even if that causes problems in your papal relationships.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  10. #70
    Member Member The_crusader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    True,Milan should go early in the game ...as I recall they have France that is also against them(the ennemi of my ennemi is my friend).
    Emperor Constantine c.288 - 337
    "In hoc signo vinces"
    (In this sign shalt thou conquer)

  11. #71
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Here's what's happened so far in my M/VH Venice campaign:

    Stage 1:

    Spent a few turns to build up the Venice province. After that, built a basic militia army and conquered Miland and Genoa. In my previous Scots campaign I found Milan a strong faction on the battlefield, so I wanted to get them away from my lands. I then built forts across all gaps in the Alps to seal off my lands from the north and west, safe from the HRE, Milan, and France. I then quickly grabbed Zagred and Durazzo before Hungary could make a move.

    Stage 2:

    For some reason there was no Crusade called to the Holy Land. So, I focused on securing my lands in Italy. The Pope had already grabbed Florence, which was pretty annoying, so I seized Florence and then Rome in a couple of turns, thinking the Papal States Faction would be destroyed. Meanwhile, I used spare troops from Zagred and Durazzo to wage war against the Byzantines, conquering Corith, Rhodes, Smyrna, and Nicaea.

    Stage 3:

    The Pope finally launched that eagerly awaited Crusade that lets Catholic factions make some easy gains. Unfortunately it was against me, and so I panicked and gathered all spare troops in Italy and joined them in an army based between Milan and Venice. The HRE, Spain, Denmark, Scotland, Sicily plus some others all soon joined the Crusade. A small navy was sent to complete a mission to blockade a Sicilian Port at Palermo. In the east, my troops take Byzantium just before a Turkish army on Jihad. In a great moment of luck, my fleet returning from Palermo spots a figure who looks like a Bishop cowering in a forest next to a Castle filled with Muslim Rebels at Caralis. This figure turned out to be the Pope, and so at a huge cost (totalling six figure amounts of florins) Venice is reconcilled and the Crusade is called of. Magdeburg becomes the new Papal land after I bartered it off the HRE in an earlier ceasefire agreement.

    This is where my campaign is at right now. I'm economically crippled for the moment, but managing to hold onto my lands so far. My advice is that its best for Catholic factions not to attack the Pope...
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  12. #72
    Guest Gaius Terentius Varro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Quote Originally Posted by The_crusader
    True,Milan should go early in the game ...as I recall they have France that is also against them(the ennemi of my ennemi is my friend).
    I am playing on VH campaign and Milan has been my trusted ally for 120 turns now I got 2 marriage alliances with them. I keep giving them little cash and map info and they stay loyal. They keep France England Spain at bay while i went east. You can actually stop the reputation slide on VH through intensive diplomacy it just takes a while. I got Egypt to ally with me after 3 crusades against them so hell anything is possible.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Venice

    I have been trying to keep the Ventian bloodline clean by not accepting adoptions and man-of-the-hours (rather sad actualy to deny the hard fighting peasants a stab at nobility).

    Its only around turn 25 and it seems that the bloodline detoriarate rapidly: my faction heir and his brothers get the "Dysfunctional" traits and the rest of the brood start showing up with "Aloof", "Deep pockets" and "Lazy"..

    Ive tried very hard to use the guides to train up good generals/governors so most have various levels of good taxman, farmer and trader traits....

    But im afarid that all my hard work to groom the venetian bloodline would end me up with some "Utterly insane", "Totaly Closed", "Embezzelers" inbreeds...

    So should i try to opt for some adoption to get fresh blood into this nest of degenerates?

    What have i done wrongly to get so appaling traits when the whelps come of age? I tought having a chivalourous grand crusader as father and grandfather should set some kind of example? The heir married a spanish princess, maybe thats where the problem lies?

  14. #74
    I just became a... Member Out's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrafn
    I have been trying to keep the Ventian bloodline clean by not accepting adoptions and man-of-the-hours (rather sad actualy to deny the hard fighting peasants a stab at nobility).

    Its only around turn 25 and it seems that the bloodline detoriarate rapidly: my faction heir and his brothers get the "Dysfunctional" traits and the rest of the brood start showing up with "Aloof", "Deep pockets" and "Lazy"..

    Ive tried very hard to use the guides to train up good generals/governors so most have various levels of good taxman, farmer and trader traits....

    But im afarid that all my hard work to groom the venetian bloodline would end me up with some "Utterly insane", "Totaly Closed", "Embezzelers" inbreeds...

    So should i try to opt for some adoption to get fresh blood into this nest of degenerates?

    What have i done wrongly to get so appaling traits when the whelps come of age? I tought having a chivalourous grand crusader as father and grandfather should set some kind of example? The heir married a spanish princess, maybe thats where the problem lies?
    No, you see, you are playing as Venice. In effect, you are now the Father of Capitalism. You just have America syndrome. No known cure.

    In seriousness though, I don't think it's *all* your fault, sometimes you get some bad luck, even with hardcoded events. At least, I prefer to look at it that way.
    "My milkshake brings all ye gentlefolk to the yard, and they're like 'It's better than thine.' Verily, it's better than thine, I could teach you, but I must levy a fee."

  15. #75

    Default Re: Venice

    Hehehe..

    Ive resorted to "cheating" and saves/reloads the game until i get a heir with traits i could use...seems like changing varaibles (like the happiness in the coming of age town, whats building, what garrison and so on influences on the born traits).

    After working on the "perfect" venetian strategy and restarting the game a multitude of times ive concluded with the following (plays on H/M):

    - Take Durazzo and convert it to a castle and utilize enough troops to hold against Byzantine attacks until you can go on the offensive against Byzants. Wait for the mission and get 2500 florins before attacking! Dont give it away, as a castle its perfectly defendable and if you upgrade yo could turn it into a large town after you have pacified Thessalonica.

    - Attack Zagreb first turn with faction heir. Build spears in Venice and hit Bologna in turn 2 or 3. You get no Papal interference so early and the HRE are happy to offer ceasfire few turns after you have taken it (seems like tha Kaisar residing in Bologna wasnt to popular guy with the HRE). Its a complete waste to fork out 6-7000 florins for a town you can take for free and sack as wel.

    - Build a Ballista factory in Venice first turn and get 2 units of ballistas.

    - Hit Florence and take it as well, then build up two armies both with one ballista each and attack both Milan towns. You are able to siege them same turn with a ballista in the army.

    Around turn 10 or so you should have Venice, Bologna, Zagreb, Durrazzo, Florence, Milan and Genoa (and Crete). Thats a perfect base for heavy ecconomic and technical boosting of your faction.

    Now you have some options: get a crusade going towards Tunis and capture the islands or get a crusade going against Antioch and hit the Byzantines hard on the way.

    Im on turn 23 now and own the above mentioned cities together with Antioch (+ a small town besides Antioch), Rhodos, Corinth and Thessalonica. Had a lot of fighting with Byzants on the island outside Antioch but my returning crusaders will crush it on their way home. I got a council mission for damascus so thats next on the hit list.

    Didnt go for the Islands since i used some turns to capture Bern Castle (still rebels) and Sicily had already taken Tunis.

    The next 10 turns i will focus on building up the diplomatic realtions with HRE/Hungary (hope to get the heir married into thos dynasties) and keep the Pope happy, while i destroy the Byzantines. Allied to Portugal and Spain so its possible i try for a crusade against the moors in Cordoba so im able to boost those alliances as well :)

    Got a really good game going now with excellent ecconomy, since i using the militia spear and crossbow 90% of the time and only supplement with crusader heavy forces when available.

    Some more generic do's:
    - Build a grain exchange first thing in every place a familymember will reside so as to avoid the badtrader trait.
    - Build a smal church/chapel next so as to avoid the astrologer ancillary.
    - Keep taxes on very high when building with a governor, to get good admin skills...

  16. #76

    Default Re: Venice

    Personally i thinkVenice a bit overpowered. They have a great economy, tons of land to expand and one of the deadliests armies i had ever seen. Pavise crossbowmen just kick ass, just put them on your front line and they clean the house, and with their shields on their back the casualties from enemy fire are close to none. Then bring Venetian Heavy Infantry, who just wipe out everything on their path. To finish, use that incredible stradiots, who seem more like some very fast mailed knights to me, to chase rooters, generals or even attack unwanted missile units (like arquebusiers).

  17. #77

    Default Re: Venice

    When I play Venice, I always crusade with my army from Iraklion to antioch after allying with the Pope (and after having done the usual stuff buying bologna,taking florence).
    When Antioch falls,I sack it but more important I get a 6+ piety general.
    With the general in Iraklion and training a lot of priests and sending them to the holy lands, I always get a theologians HQ there when I've upgraded it to huge city.
    That HQ combined with a Cathedral gives me priests who become almost always cardinals 1 turn later. That's fairly handy for pope-control

  18. #78

    Default Re: Venice

    I have installed LTC and begun a new campaign as Venice because I liked the army composition. I started the Campaign on VH/VH and for my own enjoyment am sticking to a number of house rules;

    1) Create a somewhat-realistic "story" and stick to it (ie. role-playing but on a faction level rather than individual characters)

    2) never/ever save/reload. If I make a mistake that costs me a city, its tough, otherwise it encourages a lot of unrealistic play as you know you can try it a different way if it goes wrong, but in reality, a king never got the chance to turn back time.

    3) Be the Pope's poster boy (fits with the story, also means never ally with muslim factions)

    4) All armies, with the exception of troops moving around within my own borders MUST be led by a general.

    For this campaign I decided that the doge of Venice would have his sights set on creating a trade network to try and rival Constantipople as the gateway to trade with the East. Having already taken Ragusa to protect ships in the Adriatic and setup a staging post to harbour & re-supply ships at Iraklion, there was already a safe shipping route all the way to Africa and the Middle East. I decided therefore that the first objective would be to take the Castle at Sofia and build a port whilst also taking Zagreb and thus creating a road from venice to the Black Sea which I would control. Taking Zagreb would also mean Venice was protected from the East. In Italy I bought Bologna from the HRE and Allied with them as well. I also took Florence which then represented my own league of city states.

    I sent the Heir to Zagreb and both of the remaining sons to Sofia. I sieged Sofia for five turns until it gave in. Hungary almost beat me to it but I allied with them and got there one turn before them. There army has sat there on the border ever since and done nothing else (I think its confused because it wants to take Sofia but its allied with me and our relations are "outstanding").

    After a few turns building up my conquests the Byzantines decided to take offense at my plans for breaking their trade monopoly and layed siege to Sofia. I fought them off but was too weak to strike back. Shortly after Sicily attacked Bologna and Iraklion, then the Moors landed and attacked Florence. It seemed like a case of if you have something worth taking, someones going to want to take it!

    Next the Pope deciced to call a crusade on Jerusalem. It was bad timing as I was already over-stretched but I cmae up with a plan to turn it to my favour. The Doge was defending Italy and the two youngest sons were stuck in Sofia. This left the heir in Zagreb, until now safe from harm. I decided to gather every spare man I could beneath the heirs banner and march to Jerusalem -- right through Constantiniople. Reinforced by the garrison at Sofia the crusaders smashed a large Byzantine army and then took their Capital before continuing on their way. They succesfully sacked and secured Jerusalem and the heirs own son took the castle at Acre.

    Back in Greece, the second eldest son was returning to Italy to assist his ageing father whilst the third son was to rule the newly conquered Constantinople. Of the Doges grandsons one was governing Bologna, one took charge of the garrison at Sofia and the other was to command the army assigned to putting an end to Byzantine aggression.

    Just as things looked like they were getting back on track, the Doge died and the byzantines emerged from sourthern greece with an enormous army. Ragusa was lost, and Sofia and Constantinople both fought off difficult sieges. The general in Bologna died in battle leaving only one man to govern Italy which was now also under attack from the Milanese. I had another general come of age at Sofia and I managed to gather enough troops to make a half-stack for re-taking Ragusa. This new-kid has so far done a great job of fighting his way through to the castle and securing it. The general at Sofia marched south with about 1/3 of a stack to help break yet another siege at Constaninople and was caught by a full stack of byzantine spearmen and archers. After fighting a heroic victory, the survivors at constantinople have joined up with them to create an almost-full stack with both generals in just north of thessalonica. The general at Ragusa is going to join them soon with another half stack to try and finish the Byzantines in europe once and for all, although they will still be outnumbered.

    Meantime, back in italy, the new Doges brother in Venice has just had another son come of age and immediately despatched him with a full stack of militia to take milan after the pope just excommunicated them. he then managed to get himself killed in his first battle (although the battle was won) so the Doges brother has joined the army from venice to finish the siege.

    While all thats been happening, my 3 enemies, Sicily, Milan and the Byzantine Empire have all allied with the HRE to create my very own axis of evil. The HRE has not turned on me just yet but it did just ask for 150 florins in return for not attacking me which doesn't look good. At this point they are the largest and strongest faction in the game. the second largest is france who I will also have a border with soon. I am the the third largest overall though there are 3 0r 4 factions of near equal size.

    My plan now is as follows. Finish off milan and genoa and then reinforce northern italy like crazy before the HRE and maybe even france turn up. Build them up into some money making machines while i'm at it. Finish off the Byzantines and then get all the spare troops from that region onto a boat to take Sicily and Cagliari and unite Italy under my rule (with the blessing of the Pope of course). If I can achieve that, I might look to go crusading again, ultimately I want to take on the turks and link up all the way to Jerusalem.

    All in all, this has so far been an excellent campaign, I've lost battles, lost regions, lost generals, I'm not the biggest or strongest, I'm not rolling in cash but I'm not broke either, I haven't got the best troops but I'm not stuck using clone armies of militia, all this and I still feel I can win! I just hope the late game is going to be as good. I think I would have been a lot more powerful now if I had blitzed northern and then Southern Italy at the beginning before turning towards Greece but I doubt it would have made quite such a challenging mid-game as what I have now.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Venice

    Greetings dear friends and servants of the Queen of the Adriatic.

    I've just finished one VH/VH long campaign as Venice.

    My advice for a good start would be:

    1) Buy Bologna at turn 1 (costs around 5000/6000fl)
    2) Send a diplomat to the Pope right away to get an alliance and give the Pope-o-Meter a boost any time you have the means to (Florins and/or map info and/or settlements you can't afford to keep atm).
    3) Prepare 2 stacks of armies to siege Milan and Genoa in a short campaign, in order to minimize the rep hit with the Papal state.
    Wiping out Milan faction should be your the first objective, letting them live makes them become every turn a bigger threat.
    4) Grab with your remaining forces all rebel settlements you can, listed by order of importance: Florence, Ajaccio, Cagliari, Durazzo.
    5) Give Durrazzo to the Pope if the Byzantines show up in the area with a stack of armies. (This will prevent early war with them and allow you to be able to defend against HRE in the meantime).
    6) Try to secure an alliance with Hungary.
    7) Take care of Sicily the same way you did with Milan (1 stack per settlement, blitz style).
    8) Be prepared to defend Zagreb from heavy HRE assaults.

    You should then now own all Italy and have a quite nice Florins income allowing you from this point to continue on the campaign in whatever direction you fancy.

    My advice for continuing the game would be:

    1) Take every Mediterranean island if possible.
    3) Don't seek to expand to the East too far for Mongols and later on Timurids will show up and will turn your investments in a loss. Using the same strategy than the one to defend Zagreb should be used in Constantinople that should be considered as a "Frontier city" filled with full stack or armies).
    2) Build up solid and consistent fleets. (Each fleet has a max range/per turn then each of your fleets should touch the max range of the next to it in order to be able to intercept every single enemy fleet that dares enter your waters).
    3) Seek to "Envelop" the Mediterranean see to create new trade routes between your settlements and boost even more your income. Coastal settlements all around the see should be of interest for you (Exception made for Middle East).
    5) Don't try to keep and hold inland settlements unless necessary, they will cost you more to defend than what they will reward you. For example create safe borders to the North by creating "buffer zones" by seizing inland settlements and handing them to the Pope.
    6) When you'll be invading the Iberian Peninsula, use the blitz method. The settlements are far away from each other. Beginning the invasion without sufficient backup will make the campaign last much longer than it should.
    7) Try to obtain an University asap for the "World is round" event is triggered by the construction of the first one. This will allow you to send and expedition early on and able you to use Venice famous merchants at their best (one experimented merchant on Tobacco or Cocoa resources will reward you thousands of Florins each turn).
    8) Have fun.
    "When a man does not know what harbour he's making for, no wind is the right wind."

  20. #80
    Merciless Mauler Member TheLastPrivate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrafn
    I have been trying to keep the Ventian bloodline clean by not accepting adoptions and man-of-the-hours (rather sad actualy to deny the hard fighting peasants a stab at nobility).

    Its only around turn 25 and it seems that the bloodline detoriarate rapidly: my faction heir and his brothers get the "Dysfunctional" traits and the rest of the brood start showing up with "Aloof", "Deep pockets" and "Lazy"..

    Ive tried very hard to use the guides to train up good generals/governors so most have various levels of good taxman, farmer and trader traits....

    But im afarid that all my hard work to groom the venetian bloodline would end me up with some "Utterly insane", "Totaly Closed", "Embezzelers" inbreeds...

    So should i try to opt for some adoption to get fresh blood into this nest of degenerates?

    What have i done wrongly to get so appaling traits when the whelps come of age? I tought having a chivalourous grand crusader as father and grandfather should set some kind of example? The heir married a spanish princess, maybe thats where the problem lies?
    Spanish and Hungarian blood tends to have the "rage" trait so its good to marry them and bring their blood in. You get bad genetic compositions once in a while and I just charge them into rebel spearmen in a narrow column.


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  21. #81

    Default Re: Venice

    I am having a blast playing as Venice. I hope to be able to take all of Italy without pissing the pope off to much

    A Living Goddess

  22. #82
    Sardonic Antipodean Member Trithemius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Anyone try to upset the Pope?

    In my current game I tried very hard to keep him on-side, but he allied with the HRE (the ahistorical goon! :)) and then betrayed our alliance when war broke out!

    My elderly heroic Doge received the Holy Lance from the general bearing it, and lead an army against Rome, displacing the unholy despot.

    I've managed to reconcile with the Papacy (bribed them with the loot from Rome), and gave them Sardinia as a new home.

    The Papacy still supports the HRE however, so I don't think this is the last I will have heard of the Pope...
    Trithemius
    "Power performs the Miracle." - Johannes Trithemius

  23. #83
    Senior Member Senior Member Quintus.JC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    Venice has a superior militia and also a very good army. I tried to unify Italy right from the start but that got me excommunated with the pope. after a while i was reconsilated again and had been the pope's favourite ever since, never made aggression with a Catholic nation (though they did to me), build churches and joined crusades. after Italian unification i want west into Byzantium, after conquering them i waited for the mongol invasion the lauched a large scale invasion into Asia.

  24. #84

    Default Re: Venice

    Some good information here, makes me want to replay venice

  25. #85

    Default Re: Venice

    There is a Pope-trick in 1.2 or 1.3. just capture Ajaccio and give it to the Pope. Almost everyone wants it, and thus, gets excommunicated.
    Free killing for Venice!

  26. #86

    Default Re: Venice

    lots people suggest buying Bologna as the first move. I just trade ikronka, map and trade rights for bologna, then turn around and seige Ikronka, and kill the HRE emperor(it would be a nice payday if HRE had the 15k for the kings ransom, but they never do). then it's alliance with the pope and wack that snake in the grass(milan). kiss up to pope, call a crusade, send all your generals beside king and heir(since they gonna cultivate dread anyway). sell your cruade target to someone who have no hope of holding it(spain, portugal, england etc). consolidate a bit, then strike the byzantines.

  27. #87

    Default Re: Venice

    Ha the pope attacked florence after excommunicating me for taking Milan.

    He died in the siege battle.

    I lost the the city though - inflicting 90% casualties on the papal army.

    Then we elected a sicilian in as pope, but I assulted rome and sacked it in the very next turn, - Pope 2 dies by the hand of Venice.

    Then we elected a spaniard to be pontif.

    I gifted Rome back to him after destroying all the buildings.

    I own all northern Italy - milan has gone and the HRE in bologne was taken by assult in the first few turns.

    Wild! I now have three Cardinals!

  28. #88
    Knight of Fable... Member Mek Simmur al Ragaski's Avatar
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    Default Re: Venice

    This is what i reckon somebody playing Venice should do

    Expansion
    Exterminate the people of Zagreb and Durazzo, and consider taking Flourence and Rhodes. I would not suggest attack the Byzantines as they are actually a decent ally, and wont stab you in the back like Milan regularly do. Your next goal should be to eliminate Milan as early as possible, so they are not a pain later on. I also suggest taking Ajjacio and Cagliari, both south of Genoa on the two islands, as the AI never attacks them and they are good for trade as they are right in the middle of the sea.

    Trade and diplomatic stances
    Seens as though you are places crash bang in the middle of italy, many diplomats will come down for alliance, trade rights and map info, the trade rights will gain you much money. If you have taken Florence, gift it to he pope, as many factions will attack florence, and it is a waste of money. This will also put your papal favour near the top, so its a good thing to do.

    Navy
    Venice has possibly the largest navy in the game, you should exploit this by blockading enemy ports, destroying their navies, porting units to their countries. Or you could simply dispand it to lower your upkeep, although i dont suggest this.

    Units
    I cant think of any, but people say they have some very good unique soldiers

    Well, thats what i think you should do whilst playing Venice
    'It is not anger that drives me to destroy the Egyptian empire, but the promise of gold, a throne, and of all the ruling Pharaoh's concubines in a single night'
    -Me sacking the Egyptian cities...

  29. #89
    Warrior on the edge of time Member kitbogha's Avatar
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    Aque Sulis, England.
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    Default Re: Venice

    My Plan:-
    1)Trade money for Bologna, a good investment as once you take Florence too, you hold the keys to the peninsula and have options to expand east or west. Ally with everyone (ask for money to do so-they will usually pay for the priviledge). You can manipulate the Pope far easier if he is your ally, and if Milan (for instance, the treacherous snakes!!) decide to attack you and break your alliance the Pope seems to take this more seriously and it makes the whole Crusading for gain thing much easier.
    2)Take Zagreb, before too long it expands to a nice little earner and also links up with Ragusa, somewhat unifying your empire.
    3)Take Ajaccio. Keep it as a castle as it a) is handy for building troops for your expansion into Iberia and North Africa, b) It is tougher for when other factions (Milan again?) decide they want to risk your wrath and attack it. It is a great way station for expansion south and west. You can also take Cagliari (unless as in my campaign Sicily got there first-I am still being freinds with everyone but the Muslims and the Rebels).
    4) Get some priests over to southern Iberia and North Africa to smooth your way with the locals and boost their credibility for when Pope Electing time comes.
    5) Being the most popular faction with the Pope you can now commission a Crusade against Cordoba and get a toehold on the peninsula.
    This is as far as I have got (turn 28) but I am nicely set up for a nice little war against the Moors.
    More Later.

    Later-
    Turn 68 and the Moors are no more. Their empire fell with surprising ease (thanks to 2 handy crusades) and I now have substantial holdoings in Iberia and North Africa, including the king of all moneymakers Timbuktu. As planned the Pope is now Venetian. Milan, as expected betrayed our alliance, so I had to relieve them of 3 provinces. I was casting around for a legitamate enemy and Lo and behold Spain backstabbed me, so now the war is on, Spain have been excommed and I am rushing over to Rome with my diplomat to gift the Pope some florins and a map to push my love just that little notch higher to allow my planned crusade against Toledo (although the most popular of the Catholic Church's son's my faction is marginally short of the level to activate that particular crusade).
    Once I have dispatched them (or maybe at the same time!) I aim to take out those Byzantines who have been raiding my Easternmost provinces...
    It is good having a widely spread empire, allowing opportunities for action in several directions at once.
    Last edited by kitbogha; 07-19-2008 at 20:35.
    "I like a man who grins when he fights"
    Winston Churchill.
    "It is not sufficient that I suceed - all others must fail.”
    Genghis Khan

  30. #90

    Default Re: Venice

    I started out very peacefully with Venice on VH/VH.

    Traded Iraklion, Map Info and an Alliance to the Holy Roman Empire for Bologna.

    Secured an Alliance with the Pope.

    Did not move on Zagreb or Durazzo.

    My only military move in the first 25 or so turns was to take Florence.

    In the mean time I spent my time by teching up the economies of Florence, Bologna and Venice through farms/roads/markets/ports while supplying each with the means to defend itself through militia spears and crossbows.

    I built cavalry in Ragusa. Brought the administrator to Venice and the Iraklion family member to Ragusa.

    I allied with the French knowing full well I would eventually square off with the Milanese.

    But the first act of war was the Sicilians. They were eliminated with relative ease as they were excommunicated and destroyed without a Crusade but with no Papal intervention either.

    Next the Milanese decided to strike. I crusaded against Milan and quickly relieved the people of that nation of their two Italian cities. Now Venice resides over all of Italy, minus Rome, and Ragusa on the Greek coast.

    My next move, where I'm in the middle of now, was an invasion of Greece. The goal for my initial half of the strategy is to secure Constantinople to Genoa whilst avoiding war in the West, setting up my economy and maintaining Papal favor.

    The way I approach this game, as a Catholic faction on VH/VH, is always to appease then manipulate the Papacy.

    I just took Thessalonica and Corinth, the next stop is Constantinople to control the trade of the entire map.

    Once that is achieved, I will likely look to Hungary/Poland/Germany to further expand.

    Don't get trapped into the idea that Venice needs to be played with the same ruthlessness and aggressiveness as the AI. It is possible and very effective to use your early military strength to stay at peace and develop a core of Venice, Bologna and Florence as the heart of your future Imperial economic structure.

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