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  1. #1

    Default Byzantium

    Byzantium needs to be unlocked before you can play as them. To do this you can either complete a campaign (on any difficutly, long or short setting) with one of the five starting factions, or you can edit the preferences file. To do this open your Sega/M2TW folder/data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign, find the file called "descr_strat" and open it with wordpad. Now find the section which says
    Code:
    campaign      imperial_campaign
    playable
       england
       france
       hre
       spain
       venice
    end
    unlockable
       sicily
       milan
       scotland
       byzantium
       russia
       moors
       turks
       egypt
       denmark
       portugal
       poland
       hungary
    end
    nonplayable
       papal_states
       aztecs
       mongols
       timurids
       slave
    end
    Change it so it reads
    Code:
    campaign      imperial_campaign
    playable
       england
       france
       hre
       spain
       venice
       sicily
       milan
       scotland
       byzantium
       russia
       moors
       turks
       egypt
       denmark
       portugal
       poland
       hungary
    end
    nonplayable
       papal_states
       aztecs
       mongols
       timurids
       slave
    end
    Last edited by frogbeastegg; 11-13-2006 at 22:28.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  2. #2
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Faction Information
    Byzantium begins play with 5 provinces. Constantinople is a large city, and the capitol. Thessalonica and Nicaea are towns. Corinth is a castle and Nicosia on Cyprus is a wooden castle.

    Potential Problems
    While mostly surrounded by rebel provinces, Hungary lies north of you, the Venetians lie to the west, and the Turks are to the east. Byzantium is of the Orthodox Christian faith, which means 1) you aren't subject to the Pope and 2) it's quite possible for both crusades and jihads to be called against you. Unless you remain at peace with all catholic factions, your relations with the Papal States will likely nose dive.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I think that if you want to play as byzantines you must be ready to take chanses.What i mean is that you must be ready for war on 2 fronts and if necessary to retreat and concede 1-2 provinces without sacrificing many of your valuable troops.You must advance to all directions and take out the rebel provinces.Go for Smirna,trebizond,rhodes AND i think most importantly go and invade akra from cyprus.Even jerusalem and adana might be easy targets before the egyptians come to the north.

  4. #4
    I need to change my armor Member Sir Robin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    I have been a ByzFan since first running across that Time-Life book on them around two decades ago. Ever since they have been my favorite faction to play in any game that includes them.

    Played them for three hours last night on Medium/Medium, my learning curve settings.

    With the Turks on your eastern frontier and the Hungarians and Venetians not far from your western frontier you have to keep a strong defense in two directions against enemies that do not have any particular reason or even inclination to not attack you.

    You should focus on having two mobile field armies to respond to any incursions and secure any rebel towns/castles nearby.

    The easiest for you to reach quickly are Sofia (nw of Constantinople) and Smyrna (s of Nicaea).

    Sofia
    Sofia is a Wooden Castle with a large missile-type garrison so an assault would be costly. Maintaining a siege is the better option. With so many troops inside they will sally forth on the last turn and at least then your mostly spear troops will have a better chance to force hand to hand.

    Also Hungary is next door so you need to move quickly against Sofia. Even then you may just barely beat the Hungarians to Sofia. If you manage to get an alliance with them don't expect their stack nearby to go anywhere. They seem to like to hang around, rather blatantly waiting for an opportunity to take Sofia away from you.

    Smyrna
    Smyrna is also a Wooden Castle but it has a much weaker garrison than Sofia. You begin with Prince John (Faction Heir) and a small stack south of Nicaea and usually get a mission to take Smyrna from the Council of Nobles pretty quickly.

    While an assault is feasible waiting out a siege with a slightly reinforced army for Prince John will usually give you a casualty-free victory. The Turks don't seem particularly inclined to go after Smyrna right away even though Iconium, their capitol, is next door to the east.

    I usually sack both cities but an extermination might be a better option to clear out those of other faiths in these cities.

    Pirates!
    You start with four dromons, two by Thessalonica and two by Nicosia. Pirates start popping up pretty quickly but are one ship each affairs. I suggest combining your two fleets as quickly as possible to guarantee victories and remember to patrol your waters frequently to take care of those piratical scum.

    Landbridges
    There are three land bridges in your territories so don't count on water and your ships to protect Constantinople from the Turks. There are two linking Niceae and Constantinople. One to your capitol's east and one to its southwest. There is also a landbridge linking the Corinth and Durazzo territories so don't count on Thessalonica to protect Corinth.

    Mo' Florins
    You begin with only one merchant and must build more economic buildings to be able to build more. There are four silk resources around Constantinople itself. This is an excellent place to begin your economic empire and as soon as possible you should have at least one merchant on each. While merchants cost 550 to produce they have 0 upkeep and the longer they are on a trade resource the more their skill, and the money you get, improves.

    Dude, where's my emmisary?
    You do not begin the game with a diplomat. However you can build one right away and you should in order to start contacting other factions. The Turks, Hungarians, even the Polish were very willing to share map information, trade rights and sign alliances. However the Venetians stubbornly refused to sign an alliance and generally seemed the most hostile of my neighbors.

    Hot Babes and Pointy Hats
    You begin with one Princess and soon start getting proposal offers especially if you use her to negotiate some. Her charm starts climbing quickly making her a more attractive potential bride. However all the proposal offers seem to be from local nobles and so I sent her further a field to see about an alliance with the Polish.

    Oops

    Found a Polish family member far to the north in one of their cities. Thinking that this would strengthen our alliance I sent her in and got a new general instead!?! Relations quickly began plummeting as the understandably upset Poles did not like me having an army, one general, wandering around their territories.

    So I am now beginning to think Princesses may be best used to get more generals from local nobles or being used as diplomats.

    Preacher
    You begin with one priest and without having to worry about the inquisition he is probably best used helping to convert the Catholics in Sofia. While they will probably be a lot more helpful mid-game, early-game they don't seem to be that important.

    Rhodes
    Rhodes begins as a rebel territory and there is no land bridge to it. So depending on how successful you are an invasion of Rhodes is another opportunity to use your initial ships and troops D-Day style.

    Nicosia
    Nicosia, Cyprus, gives you an excellent launch pad for invasions of the Holy Land or backdoor campaigns into Turkish err... Turkey. However it is pretty isolated from your home turf so it doesn't seem to give much benefits in the early game. I converted the Castle to a Town and focused on maximizing profits from it instead.

    Durazzo
    Durazzo is a rebel territory west of Thessalonica. While it may be hard to manage, I had to pull Prince John's stack over since the Hungarians were waiting to strike Sofia and Venice had already attacked Sofia, it is an easy capture. With a small garrison and no walls the Venetians may have already taken it by the time you get there but by then you may be at war with them anyway.

    Taking Durazzo helps protect Corinth but don't get too comfy. I've heard that naval invasions are more common in M2TW.

    Venice
    For some reason, even on Medium, the Venetians seem quite hostile and will probably quickly be attacking your territories. The Passive AI bug gives you an edge if you have significant missile units but they keep coming and you should soon expect to have large battles with them.

    Iraklion, Crete, belongs to Venice from the start so ambitious Emperors could use the four Dromon fleet to launch an invasion pretty early.

    Relations
    Do not expect to become real pals with anyone except possibly the Rus. While I can manage to keep Hungary so-so the Turks stay terrible but seem to be preoccupied in the early-game so you should get some breathing room before they start rolling across your borders.

    Will add more as it occurs to me. All in all though I am having a lot of fun.

    Additional:

    Troops
    One surprising thing is the lack of melee cavalry, at least in the early game. You basically get three types of cavalry produceable in the early game and they are all horse archers. so any sort of light melee cavalry, like Alan, have to be picked up as mercenaries. While this will be useful against Turkish forces it can be an early disadvantage against the more attack cavalry based western factions.

    Also, unlike MTW, you do not have a solid foundation of Byzantine Infantry to build on. Instead your best early melee infantry are the Byzantine Spearmen. While I didn't look to closely they seemed to have the same stats as militia spearmen only higher unit numbers.

    Trebizond
    I had originally planned to take Trebizond almost immdediately. However, I ran into a problem. The town/castle is on the far eastern side of the territory. This would make it difficult to support or reinforce it if the Turks invaded. Because of this and Venetian/Hungarian hostility you may want to wait until your western frontier is secure before attampting to tackle it and the Turks.

    By then the Crusades should begin coming through and provide and adequate distraction for the Turks.
    Last edited by Sir Robin; 11-15-2006 at 18:49.
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    who had nearly stood up to the vicious Chicken of Bristol,
    and who had personally wet himself at the Battle of Badon Hill.

  5. #5
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Byzantium is a nation of horsemen, and the strength of its military lies in its cavalry. The infantry is mostly cheap trash. Note, I said mostly. Basically, you have three types of infantry:

    Spears
    In ascending order of competence, you have town militia, spear militia, and Byzantine spearmen. All are unarmored. The difference between the first two is basically the size of the carried shield. Byzantine spearmen can form schiltron. They are all trash troops, and take lots of casualties, but they're cheap. The first two are trained in cities, but the last one must be trained at a castle with a barracks.

    Swordsmen
    Your basic swordsman is the Byzantine infantry, followed by dismounted Byzantine lancers and dismounted latinkon. Byzantine infantry wear light lamellar armor and fight with sword and shield. They're decent heavy infantry. Dismounted Byzantine lancers are the same thing, but more so. Stats and cost are a bit higher. Latinkon are basically feudal european knights in the Byzantine military, so those are basically like dismounted mailed knights. They fight with sword and shield instead of spears. Byzantine infantry are recruited in cities, but the other two are from castles.

    Archers
    Byzantium has good archers. There are 4 types: peasant archers, militia archers, Trebizond archers, and Byzantine guard archers. The latter two have long range missles, and the guard archers wear armor and have good melee stats. All of these must be recruited at castles with archery ranges, save the militia archers, which come from cities with higher level barracks.

    There is one other infantry, the Varangian Guard. These are heavy infantry with decent armor, shield, and an AP axe. They are recruited only in a huge city with the highest level barracks.

    With the cavalry, you have two broad categories, melee and missile cav. As Sir Robin mentioned, at the beginning, all you have access to is the missile cav, but that's ok. These are all good.

    Missile Cav
    You have Skythikons, Byzantine cavalry, and Vardariatoi. Skythikons are your basic steppe horse archers: no armor, little melee attack rating, fast moving, decent missle. Byzantine cavalry are the toxic hippos from BI: medium cavalry wearing armor, good melee and missile, but slower than the others. Vardariatoi are the elite steppe archers: high missile and melee stats, armor, fast moving and good stamina, but they cost a lot more. All three of these are recruit at a castle, but no other buildings are necessary. They are all enabled by the castle itself.

    Melee Cav
    In the melee cavalry category, you have Byzantine lancers, Latinkon, and Kataphractoi. Byzantine lancers are medium cavalry with lances. Latinkon are mailed knights, and kataphractoi are heavily armored cavalry with lances and maces. They don't hit quite as hard in the charge but the maces are armor piercing. All require stables in a castle to recruit, and not the low level buildings either.

    There is one other possibility for melee cavalry. If you can establish a merchants guild in a city, it will let you recruit militia cavalry there. They are spear armed light cavalry. Not the greatest as far as stats go, but they will probably be available first if you go that route.
    Last edited by Quillan; 11-16-2006 at 06:00.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Byzantium

    My MP clan has decided to do a PBeM, no write ups just playing 10 turns each, hard battles and normal campaign. We chose Byzantium because nobody really faniced going as Muslims, except Egypt but their too far from the action and most of us played England first, so didn't really want another catholic faction.

    First player has already been and I'm going second, half way through my reign.

    We've decided to try and focus on Turkey, well garrisoning but not expanding on the western front. We've got Durazzo and Rhodes and I've got an army on its way to attack Venice's Island, to try and remove its naval presence from the area.

    I'll let you know how it turns out.

  7. #7
    Texan Member BigTex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Quote Originally Posted by Slaists
    To Quillan, didn't see Varangian guards in your Byzantine infantry list. Are those not available for Byzantines in the game?
    The Varangian Guard is indeed available to the ERE. They arent cheap trash infantry though, probably why he didn't put them in there. They are a strange bunch, only available in the final barracks in a city, not a castle. There some nasty lil guys to stumble across with 20 attack 15 defense and a 2 handed armor piercing axe, they have I believe a 5-6 charge rating. Also they do carry a shield so they are not easily put down by archers.

    My campaign with the ERE was going good till the a nasty little bug accord. After defeating a jihad that was driectly across a land bridge they defeated and ransomed army got stuck in the middle of the ocean. Prevented ship's from passing through, and put a zone of control over the, land bridge. That was fine and dandy, except my army couldn't attack them and my great fleet was stranded in the black sea.

    I would say the ERE is just under the HRE in difficulty, maybe even a little harder later on. Whatever you do put the turks down first, I learned this the hard way. Capture the rebel town in greece and build up to at least a fortress. Once its a fortress it only takes 3-5 archers and spearment to hold it against fullstacks. Leave venice to waste itself on that, then go after the Turks all out. Vardariatio and byantine cav are your friends early on, the turks are very lightly armored and make beautiful pin cushions. Make sure to build your castles up to a level to be able to recruit dismounted lantikon, they are the same as dismounted fuedal knights and can form the core of your line.
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  8. #8
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Naval

    Your navy is important as Byzantium. You start with two fleets, each of which contains two dromons, and can build more. The dromon, statistically speaking, is a mediocre warship (attack of 8), but it has one very important advantage: it has a crew of 56 (on large unit size). All the neighbors can only build galleys or dhows as their initial ships, which have a crew of 37. This gives you an advantage over the pirates and hostile neighbors. The upgraded warship is the Fire Ship, which has the same crew level (it's a dromon, after all) but has an attack of 16 due to the greek fire projectors mounted on it. The war gallies built by your neighbors have the same 56 man crew, but an attack rating of 13. Establish naval superiority early, earn command stars for your admirals, and you should be able to maintain naval superiority well on into the campaign.

    Among other things you can do with it, you can use your fleets to block both the land bridges across the Hellespont. Sea trade will be your primary money maker as Byzantium, and a strong navy will help protect that. Also, your starting settlement of Nicosia, the rebel settlement of Rhodes, and the Venetian settlement of Iraklion are all on islands. You'll need fleets to get troops to and from these islands.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  9. #9
    Cynic Senior Member sapi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Rather than writing an in depth study of the byzantines, i figured i'd just share a few pointers from my game.

    1) Don't trust the Catholics. I had an alliance with Hungary from about turn 3, which they broke 2 turns later, starting a long war in the west.
    2) Try not to get into a multi-faction war on one front. I've only just overcome the hungarians (they refused peace so i fought an hour long battle for their capital and thus their destruction) and they managed to decimate an early army with the help of the venetians, who attacked me from behind and prompted a sally from budapest
    3) You can ignore the turks for a while, but don't trust them. They came from behind as my war with hungary concluded, almost taking nicea :(
    4) Having a navy isn't that important, imo. I've survived so far without anything approaching naval superiority, but this is more a result of having to churn out troops to face the catholic factions than conscious choice.
    5) You dont' have to win every battle. The main strength of byzantium is their economic superiority. You can run close to borderline every turn in the knowledge that when you do take that city you'll be reimbursed and then some

    That's all for now...

    EDIT: Oh, and the cavalry aren't really that bad. For fun, i formed a horde led by the faction heir (around 10 units on huge sizes + his bodyguard) and went around clearing up stacks of enemy units lacking cavalry themselves. I usually got a 5:1 kills:death ratio, although this plummeted every time i had to face a general's bodyguard :P
    Last edited by sapi; 11-19-2006 at 03:17.
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Hey all, I just played Byzantium last night and they're quite a difficult but managable faction. I missed the Romans so much that I wanted to see what the Byzantines were all about and yeah I agree there Byzantine cavalry and Zarototai cavalry are damned good. Its good to see that the Romans didn't get rid of everything in the few hundred years that have passed... shame about the western roman empire though...

    Well that said, I played them and I sent Prince John's army to take the rebel castle north of Thessalonica, more or less north, and fortified it with a decent sized army incase the Venetian's decided to argue about who gets it. I sent my general... whats his name... anyway the guy who was in Thessalonica to the town just west of it so I gave me a new source of income, and a place where troops can be trained to defend against Sicilian and Venetian incursions. On my Eastern front I had taken Rhodes, Smyra... spelling error, Trebezoid and Irakilion. Now I just advance what I have economically and millitary wise and I'm in the process of taking back what the Eastern Roman's had lost!

    Since I played Barbarian Invasion and now Medieval 2 I compared the territory's of the Eastern Roman Empire to the Byzantines and my god!! What a loss of ground!! Iraklion? How did the Venetian's get it? Rebellion probably? And africa... Egypt? For heavens sake they been conquered so many times why don't they just give up!
    Last edited by frogbeastegg; 07-05-2007 at 15:39. Reason: Removed a history based comment which provoked a lot of historical off-topic discussion
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Stay on topic, please. All history discussion belongs in the monastery

    I'm going to trim away all posts and parts of posts in this topic which are not related to the game, since it appears allowing a little leeway does not aid the goals of this forum. This will apply to all other threads here too, as and when it can be managed.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  12. #12
    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Thanks for cleaning up.

    I'm about to start a new campaign as Byzantium. I wanted to know: Is it possible to keep the European parts of your empire stable, conquering Sofia and Durazzo, then staying defensive - and meanwhile capturing Anatolia, the Levant and Egypt, to reinstall the former ERE? Or will I be overrun by Latin invaders? I know Venice and Hungary can become really nasty.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Ok, Byzantium.

    Where to start?

    I always start at Smyrna, since later it will be a council mission. Then I attack Durrazo (I think that's the name), then build defences and train troops to defend against future war with Venice (trust me, they will attack sooner or later). Run to Sophia before Hungary gets it. If they do, it's a base of possible invasion of Greece and Constantinople. Attack Trebizond, as it will give you a second front against Turkey (along with Smyrna).

    Enemies

    Don't just focus on Turkey. When I did that, Greece fell to Hungary and Venice. So, stock up troops on the Western Coast of Greece. This should be good for defense against Venice. If you capture Sophia, you have a base to launch attacks on Hungary, if you didn't capture it. Capture it. When you secure your Northern and Western parts of your Roman Empire, attack Turkey. By this time, you should have Trebizond, Ibisil and Smyrna. Launch a 3 way attack on Turkey to knock it out quickly. Once that is done, mop up Hungary and Venice.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Byzantium

    From what little experience I have with Byzantium, I found that your best bet is to take those elite horse archers and storm Europe. The AI's handling of infantry-heavy armies is poor at best, so you can really rip them apart with relatively few losses. Why fight cavalry with cavalry in the east when your cavalry can pretty much run about unopposed in the west? Control the black sea and the eastern mediterranean and you can effectively seal yourself off from the east.

    The cities on the eastern mediterranean coast are very lucrative, but you run into a lot of trouble with egypt, turkey, the mongols and timurids. In the west, your toughest fights might be polish nobles and, to a lesser extent, some european horse archers. Other than that, it's pretty much down to wiping out their archers and playing around with their infantry. Crossbowmen are particularly vulnerable when you charge them just as they start their long reload animation (the only downside being you sometimes eat a volley at point blank range just before reaching them in melee).

  15. #15

    Default Re: Byzantium

    As "The Empire of the Greeks" as Byzantium was referred to by the contemporary westerners, you face some serious challenges. To the east, the Turks expand rapidly and have a very good unit roster that truely becomes scarey as the game progresses. To the west, Hungary and Venice are hellbent on controlling eastern Europe, to include your Greek provinces. Venice, as usual, will declare war on anything within 100 provinces of it's frontier. Those itallian x-bow/spear militia armies can be costly to destroy, and the availability of the units makes it easy for the AI to put together stacks.

    On top of all this, you will have full stacks of Crusaders streaming through your provinces. Apparently someone told them to "Go east to where the men speak Italian, and continue until they speak something else." Even worse, after the Crusade, all the late comers will revert to their despicable barbarian roots and may decide that, having missed their chance at absolution, they might as well sack one of your cities and get drunk off the Imperial wine.

    However, Byzantium has some nice units to protect that wine ! To use them effectively, you must get out of the western tactical state of mind. Your strength is in your missle troops and your flexibility. You can dance around heavy western units and pepper them to death, but you are still heavy enough to stomp on the heads of light eastern troops.

    Killing them sofly with your (bow) song... - Drowning the Latins in Arrows
    Against western armies, I use horse archers and Alan mercs (I can't say enough about these turbo charged lancers) to ravage the enemies missle troops. I manuever my infantry and foot archers up and shoot the enemy to pieces. With 4 units of Archer Guards shooting from behind spearmen and 4 Vards peppering the foe from behind or the side, the enemy will be torn to shreds. Any attempt to attack the Vards results in kiting the enemy away from the main force where they can be surrounded and killed. An assualt on my foot archers will get caught up on the spears and counter charged by the next line of swordsmen, and possibly flanked by melee cavalry.

    Swatting Flies - The annoying Turkish Horse archers
    Against the Turks, you want to get on top of them quickly. Chase them all over with your Vards and Alans. Keep your infantry walking toward them along with your heavy cavalry. As soon as a enemy horse archer gets caught up in melee, charge them with more units. They will soon route. Make sure you keep someone chasing them until they are gone. Another option is to capture the high ground, which the skirmish mode enemies will happily abandon, and then rain your long range missles down on the turks from above. Once the enemy horse archers get in range, they will usually do the shooting circle. This just makes them easier to catch with Alans or Vards.

    Insert Homophobic joke here - A Greek Navy
    Build up your navy. Crush your enemies navy. Done? You now have the best way to travel. Anatolia is horrible to travel over. It is full of mountains and rivers and twists and turns and Turks. Why deal with all that when you can take a ship and be where you want in half the time? You can also ferry troops around to Greece, Anatolia, your islands and the Holy Land with little fear of loosing them. Navys are also handy in keeping the Hellespont and Black Sea closed, your ports open and pockets full of port generated coin.

    "I claim these lands in the name of Emperor Theodociousodopoloulisadopis Basilicianousisou!!!" - Conquering yourself some space
    I decided to first concentrate on the Aegean Sea area. I conquered Smyrna and Rhodes quickly. I turned Rhodes into a town for the economic benefit. Having sent an all cavalry army west, I overtook the unwalled settlement of Durazzo. The next obvious target was Iraklion. I used the small army that had taken Smyrna and Rhodes to stage an amphibious assualt on the Venicians of Iraklion.

    I allied with the Hungarians and even guarenteed that they succeeded with a crusade on Antioch. I let them pass, and then blocked the Hellespont and some of the river crossings in Antolia to delay the other Catholic factions.

    Next I planned to conquer the Turks. However, my beloved allies, the Hungarians, decided that I was a puppy eating devil. They attacked Constantinople and were driven back. I turned my Army of Turkish Conquest into an Army of Hungarian Conquest. I already had a Western Army, and togethr the two stacks turned the Hungarians into gooey red goloush. I am just mopping them up now.

    I sent a small force to the Crimean to take Caffa. It is easy to take and has two slave resources just outside. Once you get a port, it turns into a budding money farm.

    I need to get on with dismembering the Turks ASAP. Their unit roster gets better and better and I don't want to have Jannisarries breathing down my neck when the Mongols arrive. I am hoping to smash the Turks western provinces and then letting them recover in the east so they can damage the Khans cowboys.

    Georgodopolous likes his chicken spicy... - Trading
    Trading silks is ok. It makes decent money, but being just outside Constantinople, you dont get that great a return. The far bettter choice is to trade sugar and spices from the provinces around Antioch. New merchants will start in the high 60s and mid-levels will make around 200 . The gold mines near Trerbizond and in the Balkans are good choices too. If you conquer the Crimean, you can trade in slaves for a good return and with little competition.

    Can't we all just get along? - Diplomacy
    No we can't. Don't bother allying with anyone, they will just backstab you, crusade against you or call a jihad on you. Consider everyone your enemy and be ready for an attack from every direction.

    All and all, the Byzantines have a tough starting area, but with the flexibilities of their armies and their ability to make a lot of coin, it is nothing that can't be managed.

  16. #16

    Default Pimpatat Themata

    I love Byzantine history. I love the byzantines, but I have been trying to deal with the Byzantine campaign problems. The Byzantine Empire gets awesome horse archers, infantry, and heavy cavalry, but lacks gunpowder and seems to have extraordinary porous borders. I mean, one campaign I was laying waste to the Turks in Anatolia, then out of the blue 2 hungarian and 1 polish army attack me! But through some careful reading, problems solving, and much swearing I have figured out a solution. It is based off the concepts of the Comnenion Army and the Themata system. What you do is create 2 field armies, which are meant for attacking, slaughtering and having a good, old time. Doesnt really matter what you have in them, but my usual setup is 1 general, 4 byzantine infantry, 4 vardotai, 4 cataphracts, 4 trebizond/guard archers and a couple of catapults and assorted mercenaries, depending on your preferences. that is the Comnenion Army part. The themata part is a tad different and acts as more of a strategic reserve. to prevent sneaky armies from sneaking into your empire with sneaky intentions, build a fort at each river crossing and in mountain chokepoints. I usually put 1 infantry, 1 archer, and 1 cavalry unit in each. These garrisons dont have to be anything special, just there. then, over the course of the game, build fill up the garrisons of all your cities with the units that get the free upkeep bonus, SO YOU ONLY HAVE TO PAY FOR THEM ONCE, MWUAHAHAHAHAHA...Ahem. the point is, when you get attacked by sneaky minions of the Head Pontiff, you have little, waste garrisons to block the enemy, a field army to deal out the pain, and huge reserves of soldiers to lay waste to the invader if your field army gets WI-FI INTERNET ACCESS or is under repairs. plus its fun to see the massive reserves you are capable of bringing out ot teach your enemies a lesson.
    Last edited by Kekvit Irae; 07-07-2007 at 10:41.

  17. #17
    Maximizer of Marginal Utility Member Snoil The Mighty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    This faction has been my "Appreciation of Forts" faction. The Porous borders have numerous very nice choke points, take adavantage. Dont leave those Gens in your cities, have em work the borders! (very fun Faction!)

  18. #18

    Default Re: ByzantiumMedieval Total War II - Byzantine Empire Walk Through and Hints

    At the suggestion of later posters This walk through should be read as how to play and Eastern strategy with the Byzantines. It is possible to do well playing differently but this is still my favored way to approach this faction against the computer.

    Thoughts and Perspectives
    This was originally for my own consumption from notes I made as I tried to figure out how to use the Byzantine forces in MTW2. While it is possible to unlock the factions by editing the “Medieval2.preferences” file without winning a game using the Western European factions first I would recommend against it. Playing the English or French is much easier and is useful in learning how the game mechanics work and will save you lots of frustration.

    If you unlock the game and jump into the Byzantines you will lose repeatedly (I know this from experience). So, be patient and play the bloody English or the snobby French, the vicious Spanish or decadent HRE once on the easiest setting and unlock the game. Then you can move on to the last truly worthy Empire the world has seen and see if you can overcome the rapacious Turks and greedy Venetians and revive the glory of Rome. You'll learn a lot about how the game works and gain some tolerance for the uncivilized barbarians as well.

    I will approach this walk through in a topical and descriptive manner. I am also dealing with strategy not tactics. If you are looking for tips on fighting battles look somewhere else. I am not the best of generals. Most of the time and always on huge battles I let the computer command my forces. But, it is true wars are often won before they are fought. I am going to describe the best way I have found to win before you fight. It is my job to get my empire in the financial, military and political condition to win. If I do this then my generals can handle the the battles and the empire can with stand the strains of war. If these are not done then almost no amount of generalship will prevail.

    I will also assume that you are using the default “medium” settings for the game. However, I'd recommend using the “Easy” settings the first time you play the Byzantines.

    How I Approach Playing the Byzantines

    There are several keys to surviving more than 25 turns as the Byzantines.
    1.You have to be aggressive. You must start acquiring territory and subduing the Turks from the FIRST turn

    2.You have to be cunning and know how to use your spies, diplomats and Merchants without causing a war. This means being aggressive and cautious at the same time

    3.You have to be able to live on the edge of your finances for the first 20 to 30 game turns. You will need to take chances and if anything goes wrong before you get the East under control you will probably lose because you will not have the extra cash to build another army quickly enough.

    4.You have to be ruthless. When you take a city or castle from the Turks or a rebel settlement you should exterminate the inhabitants unless they are at least 75 percent orthodox. You don't have time to convert populations. Kill them gain control and move on. You will also sometimes find it useful to attack a settlement sack it, destroy all the buildings you can for the cash and move just out side the city. Let it revolt, unlike MTW it does not revert to the previous owner but becomes a rebel controlled province. You're are then able to move on rapidly to the next enemy town. Alternately, try giving the town to a more peaceful Catholic faction not contiguous with you. Giving Venice to the Portuguese can cause your opponents all sorts of problems and create a buffer between you and those wish to invade you.

    5.You have to win all of your first six or seven battles against the Turks, and you first two against Venetians. You should NEVER lose to Rebels

    If the plan works, you have a good chance to not only survive but win the game long before gunpowder units threaten you. If it fails you are dead meat by 1125 AD. It has been my experience that this strategy works about ½ the time if you implement it right. It can work more often if you are a good general yourself

    Weaknesses

    The Byzantines are, I think the toughest faction to play in MTW2.
    1.This is because they are one of only two factions (The Russians are the other) that can be attacked indiscriminately by any other Christian faction without being excommunicated by the Pope and still may have Jihads called against them.

    2.Unlike the Russians the Byzantines do not start with the edge of the map at their back they are trapped between four or five hostile powers; the Venetians, the Hungarians, the Turks and later by the Egyptians and Milianese.

    3.In the early stages of the game they have very poor offensive troops. This is not a shortcoming that can be made up for with mercenaries because mercenaries are primarily missile and spear troops which are defensive troops. Spear and missile troops must be used with great caution when attacking or they lose even when the Byzantines out number their opponents by large margins.

    4.While the Byzantine missile cavalry is very good they lack any form of heavy cavalry with a lance that can be reached quickly. That means the Byzantines must defend against Knights with unarmored spearmen. Your best option is to hire mercenary Frankish knights or possibly Alan cavalry or Armenian Cavalry. But these are hit and miss as to availability and retraining is problematic. They are also expensive. Armenian Cavalry, for example, are somewhat better than Byzantine Lancers but cost 1080 gold to recruit and over 300 per turn in maintenance.

    If you are playing against the computer it is possible to overcome these shortcomings but to do that you must do several things and use the few advantages that you have.

    Strengths & Advantages

    The Byzantines have several temporary advantages that you must you to their full if you are to have any hope. If you don't use these advantages while you can you'd better be willing to use a cheat code because otherwise you are lost.

    1.Emperor Alexis has six command stars; he is a tremendous tactician one of the best that any faction has in the Early game. You must take him out of Constantinople and use him to win a blitzkrieg war against the Turks. But, you have to move fast he isn't young. Use him while he lives and pray that he lives to be 100!

    2.Crown Prince John has five command stars and is also a very good commander. You must use him wisely as well. If you can keep him alive long enough to train another couple of generals up you may not just survive but win.

    3.The Dromon is a better ship in the early game than almost any one else has. Control of the seas is extremely important and the Byzantines can easily control the Eastern Mediterranean, if they can build enough ships.

    4.The Byzantines start with a large population which lets you build lots of troops. While you still need a good general to win battles you must make up for lake of troop quality with sheer numbers; and you can

    Using these to their fullest will allow you get into a position where you can survive. But you have to do several other things

    Things You Must Do

    1.As stated above, you have to go after and beat the Turks starting from the first move of the game. If you play it right you'll take three Turkish cities at once. However, if you take even two of the Turkish cities in the same move you'll have the Turks on their knees.

    2.You must get to the point where you can build an offensive infantry unit. There are two of these that are reachable by the time the inevitable 1st Venetian war starts, Byzantine Swordsmen and Dismounted Lancers. They have the same stats. One is built from a castle and the other from a town. The Dismounted Lancers are a little more expensive because they can be improved farther but the easiest one to get to is the swordsmen and you can build them in Constantinople by upgrading two times to a drill square.

    3.You must marry Anna Comenus to the Hungarian Faction heir. This buys you a bit of time when the inevitable 1st Venetian war starts. Indeed, the longer you can keep the Hungarians at peace with you the better. Marrying Anna to the Hungarians may keep the Hungarians from going to war with you for 100 years if you are lucky

    4.There are are a total of 10 rebel provinces within easy striking distance of Byzantine armies at the beginning of the game. These are Smyrna, Trebizond, Tbilisi, Adana, Antioch, Aleppo, Edessa, Sophia, Bucharest and Durazzo not to mention Sarkel and the Crimea. You need to take at least seven of them with the possible exception of Durazzo, Bucharest and Sophia before you go to war with the Venetians

    5.You must develop your economy so that you can have the money to build the buildings that get you better troops. That means building not only training facilities but farms and ports, markets and fairs to give you the income needed for a long war.

    The War to Destroy the Turks

    There are several good reasons to go after the Turks rather than the Venetians at the beginning of the game:

    1.Because when you attack the Turks the Egyptians don't declare war on you. If you immediately go after the Venetians or Hungarians the other will attack and the Turks won't be far behind. Then you'll probably end up in a two front war against three nations at once and that is a good way to say “You lose” early in the game.

    2.Byzantine troops do not seem to match up well against the Venetians. At least in the early game the Turks seem to be easier for the Byzantines to take on.

    3.The Turks really have nobody else to fight. It is possible that the Venetians will be in a war with the Milanese or HRE and the Hungarians with the Polish. If they get into a war with someone else you'll gain time to develop your economy and troop types.

    4.There are a large number of rebel provinces in the East which you can bring under your control. These, when combined with the Turkish provinces make a unified and easy to control empire.

    5. Because the Turks are in four provinces that are difficult to travel between. This means it is is very hard for the Turks to send aid from one city to another. If you attack the Turks from three directions at once you prevent them from being able to reinforce one front with troops from another.

    6. The Turks start with four provinces. The Venetians and Hungarians combined have (I think) five between them. You are taking out your biggest enemy first.

    How to Start
    (Note: This walk through gets fuzzier as the moves pass because there are too many variables to account for.)

    Turn 1
    Constantinople
    Building: City Watch
    Troops: 1X Urban Militia and 1X Spear Militia 1X ship
    (You need the extra Droman to ensure that you can deliver your troops to Trebizond.)
    Nicaea
    Building: Land Clearance
    Troops: 2X Urban Militia
    Thessaloníki
    Building; Port
    Troops: None
    Corinth
    Building: Land Clearance
    Troops : None
    Nicosia
    Building: None
    Troops: None

    Movement
    Prince John: South towards Smyrna
    Orthodox Bishop: East into Turkish territory
    Spy East toward the Greek coast
    Move two ships in the Aegean to the harbor in Constantinople
    Move two ships in the Eastern Mediterranean to point on coast just North of Nicosia

    Other
    Adjust tax rates to the highest level each city can maintain

    Move #2
    Constantinople
    Build:
    Troops: 1X Spear Militia

    Nicaea
    Build
    Troops

    Thessaloníki
    Build
    Troops 2X Urban Militia

    Nicosia
    Build: Garrison Quarter
    Troops

    Prince John:
    Build
    Troops 1x Armenian Archer Mercenary
    Corinth
    Nothing

    Move
    Alexis + 1X Trebizond Archer + 1X Urban Militia + 3XSpear Militia into ships in harbor - Then Move ALL THREE ships from Constantinople to the East side of the Bosporus in the Black sea just beyond the river (Where Troops from Nicaea can board them next turn) - Then move Evangelos Exotrochas and 3X Byzantine Spear men +2XTrebizond Archers+1X Town Militia from Nicaea towards the coast to board ship in turn three

    Other
    Prince John lays Smyrna under siege

    Turn #3
    JOHN TAKES SMYRNA

    Constantinople
    Thessaloníki =Dirt roads
    Corinth = Dirt Roads
    Nicosia = nothing
    Nicaea = Port
    Smyrna = Repair or build castle

    Troops
    Constantinople: Diplomat + 1X Spear Militia
    Nicosia = Byzantine Cavalry if you have any left
    Smyrna = delete Armenian Archers

    Move
    Load Evagelos on ships with Alexis and ships and sail East up the coast towards Trebizond (Trebizond is about 2 1/2 moves away)

    John towards Thessaloníki - at the end of his move build a watch tower
    Diplomat towards Raggusa
    Move spy so that he can see Ragussa, Durazzo and Zagreb but do not attempt to enter any of the cities. You need to see where moving armies are not what is in the cities. Also If the spy is caught in the city it makes the Venetians more likely to attack you so keep him in the country side and observe.

    Note: Another family member should have appeared somewhere. Move Him towards Smyrna

    Other
    Establish diplomatic relations with Hungarians near the city of Sophia. Marry princess to faction heir

    You will receive a reward for taking Smyrna. If it is 4X Vartaroi move them towards Thessaloníki or Smyrna If it is two Dromons move them towards Smyrna

    If it is 2500 gold then purchase 1X Dromon at Constantinople and other troops in Nicosia or better yet a Dromon and an economic improvement somewhere

    Move #4
    Constantinople
    Thessaloníki
    Corinth
    Nicosia
    Smyrna = Dirt Roads
    Turks offer trade rights and map information-accept but do not ally


    Turn #5
    Alexis lands and places Trebizond under siege
    Ships begin returning to Constantinople
    John builds watchtower at the end of his turn
    If you have a ship at Smyrna - load family member 1X Cavalry + 2Xspear +1X archer in ships near Smyrna and head to Rhodes
    Another Family Member should appear in Constantinople or Nicaea move towards Smyrna with any Urban militia or Spear militia you can spare.

    Troop builds
    Nicosia Start building Byzantine Spearmen


    Move #6
    Alexis takes Trebizond OCCUPIES IT leaves one Urban Militia and marches East (to the right) up the coast towards Tiblisi
    John Continues towards Thessaloníki
    Family Member places Rhodes under siege

    Move # 7
    Alexis continues towards Tiblisi and should be able to see it at the end of his move.
    Rhodes falls. Family Member boards ship and heads towards Cyprus
    Continue building army in Cyprus

    Move 8
    Alexis places Tiblisi under siege (If the Turks have already taken it you may wish to wait until you land an army at Adana)
    John Reaches Thessaloníki
    Continue building army in Nicosia
    Begin building some cavalry and 1 peasant in Smyrna

    Move #9
    Alexis takes Tiblisi - Repair and strengthen his army as you can
    Continue building army in Nicosia (Build only one peasant)

    Move #10
    Ship reaches Cyprus and combines with other two ships.
    Load everything except for on peasant into the ships at Nicosia if you've been diligent this should be about 15 units plus anything you've taken with you from Rhodes . Move towards coast of Adana

    Start moving the family member in Smyrna with any cavalry you've managed to build there towards Iconium but do not set a route TO it have your route stop just out side the city. You don't want to declare war yet. Purchase any Mercenary you can. You will need a big army.

    Diplomat arrives at Ragussa. Offer trade rights to Venetians offer to pay 100 gold per turn for 20 turns as tribute. If the Venetians have not taken Durazzo offer a prayer of thanks it probably means they are fighting someone up North

    Move #11
    Move the Ships with the army from Nicosia to South Coast of Lesser Armenia land troops and look around If the Turks have not taken Adana place it under siege. If they've taken it just stand there and move Alexis down from Tbilisi towards Zeveran
    Continue moving towards Iconium buy another mercenary

    By this time you should be starting to build Spear Militia in Thessaloníki

    Move 12
    Take Adana - Exterminate the population leave one peasant or urban militia (You could bring in another one from Nicosia if you need and have the cash) and move the entire army towards Caesarea

    Alexis moves towards Zeveran leaving only an urban militia in Tblisi

    Army moves next to Iconium hire another Mercenary

    Move 13
    Besiege Caesarea, Iconium and Zeveran
    Build peasants or cheap cavalry in Tblisi

    Move 14
    Exterminate the populations in Zeveran, Caesarea and Iconium.
    (If you wish to guarantee winning at Iconium use Prince John rather than the other Family Member and send John back West)

    You may need to send some help from Caesarea towards Iconium if the siege there was unsuccessful. Otherwise move that army, less a garrison back towards Adana.

    Move 17
    Alexis takes Mosul
    FM that took Caesarea may take Antioch if the Egyptians haven't

    Move 20
    Alexis takes Eddessa
    FM takes Aleppo

    Move 21
    Army built in Mosul without a FM puts Baghdad under siege

    At the end of this process you will have all or most of the following provinces under your control.
    1.Corinth
    2.Durazzo (possibly)
    3.Thessaloníki
    4.Constantinople
    5.Nicaea
    6.Smyrna
    7.Trebizond
    8.Rhodes
    9.Iconium
    10.Caesarea
    11.Adana
    12.Tbilisi
    13.Zeveran
    14. Nicosia
    15. Mosul
    16. Eddessa
    17. Aleppo
    18. Antioch (possibly)
    19. Baghdad
    20. Sarkell (If you are bold)

    These 19 or 20 provinces are defended by 5 because you can only be attacked over land through Durazzo, Thessaloníki, Tbilisi, Aleppo and Antioch. That means that if you can weasel even a few more turns of peace you will have considerable economic muscle. Since you need 45 provinces to win including Jerusalem (Which you are in marching distance of) and Rome you are well on you way

    A Few Tricks
    At the beginning of the game build a diplomat and send him to the Venetians. Provided that they are not already moving armies into your territory to attack you. Obtain trade rights, then exchange maps. Then offer to pay them 100 gold per turn for 50 turns. Sometimes they will take this. If they do you gain time because believe it or not the computers wants the tribute. Losing a 100 gold a turn will hurt you a lot less than than being able to build your economy and reach those hard to get troops

    Don't garrison with mercenaries if you can avoid it. Hire mercenaries fight the battle, take the town and dismiss them. Garrison your towns that are not on your borders with militia that you don't have to pay upkeep on. While they are poor attack troops they are useful in defending and keeping down civil unrest. Once you build them there is no upkeep cost. 8 x militia Spearmen + 8 x Militia archers + 4 x Merchant cavalry will make a walled city very difficult to take. They also give you huge hordes if you have to go to war.

    Don't take the Venetians out at one whack. When they attack the first time take Iraklion. Make peace and build. When they attack you the next time take Ragussa and Zagreb. This helps to keep your reputation better with the other schismatics. Leaving the Venetians with just Venice can be kind of fun to watch. You can do this because when the Venetians attack they'll probably need most of what they've got. That means Somebody else may, after a turn or two attack them. If you've taken Iraklion and they suddenly begin moving armies North then sue for peace. Then wait for them to break the peace and attack you again. The reason this is a good idea is that you don't want to limp into Zagreb only to have another faction take it from you. It also helps to have the Venetians in Venice. The Milanese have to march through them to get to you.

    If you are not at war, after subduing the Turks and the rest of Asia-Minor save some cash for hard times If you start a move with 5000 gold only spend 4000. If the next move the start is 6000 only spend 4000 and so on. Add a 1000 gold to your reserve every year you are not at war. If your finances improve add more. For example, if you sack a city and get 20,000 only spend 10,000 It takes discipline but over the course of 10 or 20 years you can build up a huge pile of reserves. This seems to help your merchants resist being taken over and gives you the ability to make that very special bribe to the garrison in a hard to take city such as Venice. Paying a 30,000 in gold bribe to take a huge city can be a bargain. It also gives you the ability to wage a large scale war that requires you to keep armies in the field and pay for their support.

    I talked about the Power position of having 20 provinces defended by 5 above. But, it gets better. If you take out the Egyptians you can add

    21. Alexandria
    22. Cairo
    23. Donga
    24. Jedda
    25. Gaza
    26. Jerusalem
    27. Acre
    28. Damascus
    29. Ragussa (probably)
    30. Iraklion (probably)
    31. Sophia
    32. Zagreb (Probably)
    33. Bucharest
    34. Tripoli
    35. Tunis
    36 Venice (Maybe)
    You can then defend 36 provinces from Sarkell, Venice, Zagreb, Sophia, Bucharest Tuniis.

    Indeed, you can push all the way down the coast of North Africa without increasing the number provinces that you need to defend. What this means in a perverse way is that while I have found that the Venetians are a greater threat to you the Egyptians are a more economically viable target. Venice is hard to control. There are too many cities within a days march of one another. If you can stabilize your Western border or see the Venetians and Hungarians in a desperate war with other powers build up and march on Egypt.

    Egypt is harder to down than the Turks and I'll post another "How To" on them later.

    This post has been edited for grammar and minor sequencing issues
    Last edited by Gray Beard; 01-29-2007 at 04:23.
    Gray Beard
    Byzantium, Forever and Ever

  19. #19

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I haven't had the Turks attack me over the course of two games (now three so far). Maybe I am just lucky. I will say that once you start with Venice it usually turns into the HRE, Milan and/or Hungary coming after you as well. It's a mess. Fortunately the turks just forget about me.

    I have found that Vardariotai positioned behind the enemy's lines will decimate a Western Army. I then use Byzantine Archers (or is it guard?) to pepper them from the front. The only problem I have with the Byzantines is that they lack a good spear unit to counter cavalry. But I usually just use the Vardariotai for that too once the cavalry is engaged with my dismounted lancers/byzantine swordsmen.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Aetius22, after reading Gray Beard's excellent post, I'm curious about what territories you conquered for your victories. Did you ally with the Turks? Did they provide a buffer against the Mongols?
    In later days, a man can find charm in old adversity, exile and pain. -- Homer

  21. #21
    Merkismathr of Birka Member PseRamesses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Playing with Regnum Dei Iron mod taking "homeland-provinces" from factions are much harder. As a consequence my playstyle has drastically changed. Now I ususally blitz all surrounding rebels then turtle and build up siege weapons (cats) then carefully choose my targets. All wars are well planned and equipped. Until I can meet theese requirements I just stay in my own lands depleting any invaders.

    My first priorities are:
    Army 1 (Alexis); takes Sofia, and Durazzo. Then moves towards Ragusa.
    Army 2 (John); Smyrna and Rhodes. Then moves towards Iraklion.

    *Send all priests to Crete for a total conversion, a couple of spies there will make this settlement revolt against the Venetians. Next preachertarget is Ragusa. I rather do this conquest the sneaky way since Venice is a really good tradepartner and my reputation won´t take a dive since I´m not an agressor. In RD Iron-mod the Hugarians has a stack outside Zagreb which means that the Venetians rarely takes this settlement. This in turn means that after I´ve instigated revolts in Iraklion and Ragusa they are left with Venice.
    After, or simoultanesly, I sail John from Iraklion towards Trebizond and Caffa. This is my initial turtle-area. I only keep one castle: Ragusa, at this stage.

    Next target: Turks. But that´s a completley different story.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I should probably modify my post a bit.

    I have gone back and been able to play where I take on the near by Catholics and win. As such, I think that maybe I'll modify it to show how to run your empire if you decide to conquer the East first. I feel that this the best strategy for the Byzantines because it gives the Venetians, Milanese, Sicilians HRE and Polish time to get to hate each other which seems to make them less likely to help each other.

    There is something that rvg missed when he talks about how good the Vardariotai are; he is fighting his own battles and I am not. I let the computer fight the battles. I have a hard time doing that because of (Believe it or not) getting hit by a car in 1979 when I was 20. I have nerve damage down my arms which makes my fingers clumsy and slows down my reaction and thinking time. I have a Ph.D. but I am not a fast thinker and my numb hands make typing problematic and this games require fast thinking and a better command of the keyboard than I have. As a result, I have to spend too much time looking at the keyboard when I fight the battles. Real time battles move faster than I can comfortably give commands. I can do it but I don't enjoy it. Thus, I am letting the computer run my battles. My walk through is about how to win if you can't or don't want to fight your own battles. It makes a huge difference in how competent the Byzantine troops are if you let the computer control them. Also, I do not besiege cities, I take the walls. Vardariotai in particular and cavalry in general do not do that well.

    My goal in playing the Byzantines is to stay out of a two or three front war and to be able to build up my economic level to afford the troops I need.. I find that if I take out the Venetians and Hungarians before going after the Turks then I end up simply replacing the Venetians and Hungarians with the Milanese and HRE not to mention the Polish and Sicilians. Then I have to deal with them as well as the Turks and the Egyptians. If I take out the Turks, before they can reach their good troops, and conquer everything down to Antioch, Aleppo, Edessa, Mosul, and Baghdad I can defend all of Asia Minor through Antioch and Aleppo. Because Adana and Caesarea are immediately behind these two it is very difficult for the Egyptians to break through and cause lots of problems. The Northern border can be defended against the Russians by Tbilisi and Zeveran.

    Once the Egyptians attack I can normally force my way down to Alexandria and Cairo which effectively knocks them out of the game.


    BTW- another advantages the the Byzantines have

    Maintenance cost - The Dismounted Lancers and Byzantine Swordsmen are not quite as good as their Western counterparts. However they cost 100 gold per turn less to maintain. You can effectively have three of them for the cost of two Venetian heavy infantry units. This is a huge help because it allows you to have bulkier armies. Much as in MTW1 where the Byzantine swordsmen where a 100 strong unit rather than a 60 strong unit.

    More militia units with free upkeep - The Byzantines also have more types of units that can garrison cities without a maintenance cost than other factions. The militia archers, for example can be quite useful and if you keep them in a city until you need them are free. This allows you to have better static defenses in cities


    Here is what I consider to be a good, well rounded Byzantine army
    1 x Family Member
    4 x Spear Militia or Byzantine Spearmen
    3 x Archer Militia or Trebizond Archers
    3 x Shock Cavalry (Lancers, Latinkon or Kataphraxtoi, Frankish Knights, Armenian Cavalry)
    5 x Heavy Infantry (Byzantine Swordmen, Dismounted Lancers or Dismounted Latinkons)
    4 x Missie Cavalry or Light Cavalry (Vardariotai, Byzantine Cavalry, Skythewhatever, Turcomen Mercenaries, Merchant Cavalry)

    Sometimes, I will replace the last group of cavalry with either Guard Archers or Infantry, or seige equipment.
    Last edited by Gray Beard; 01-29-2007 at 09:18.
    Gray Beard
    Byzantium, Forever and Ever

  23. #23
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Gray is absolutely correct about that. ALL cavalry sucks badly when it comes to using the auto-calculator. I think it has to do more with numbers, or perhaps yet another case where stats don't equate to battlefield performance. Any faction that fields armies heavy on cavalry will suffer when using the auto-calculator, unless those troops have massive amounts of experience. The experience is the reason the Mongols and Timurids seem to do so well when they arrive. All their battles are auto-calc'd.
    Age and treachery will defeat youth and skill every time.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Byzantium

    Here's a question: had anyone has Constantinople rebel within the first 20 or 30 turns? I've played as the byzzies many times but my most recent game is the first I've ever seen it do that,and it hurt my wallet something severe,at one point I was - 11118 florins,until I re-took and sacked it,then I took the turkish citadel of Caesarea and exterminated that,so my budget's looking better,if my damn cities would stop trying to kick me out as soon as I moved the tax rate off "low".

    I suspect spies in my cities.

    Hoping that some public buildings will improve them to the point where I can start making some cash now,as the Venetians have attempted to invade 4 times,and been kicked out 4 times,also hoping that the alliances I have with the polish,Hungarians and milanese will keep them tied up for a bit.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I never had Constantinople rebel. It is usually a cash cow for me. You have to keep building farms, trade buildings, and also barracks etc. and maintain a good garrison.
    One thing I do is build a couple of fleets and close off the straits on both sides (Aegean and Black Sea). That stops all merchants, diplomats and foreign armies from crossing over to Asia Minor and causing trouble (unless I allow them).
    As for the Turks I found that you can easily destroy them in the first few turns if you take Iconium quickly and then Ceasarea as soon as possible. But you may want to keep the Turks alive as a buffer against the Mongols. If you take Iconium and then offer them a ceasefire in exchange for Trabezon there is a high probability they will give it to you without a fight.

  26. #26
    Member Member Marius Dynamite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    Hello!

    I am in the midst of a VH/VH campaign as the Byzantine Empire. I decided to do this campaign with the goal being to reconquer the Roman Empire. It was very very tough to get were I am now @ around the 1280's. I've wrote down the basics of what I done. I should point out I am writing this out of recent memory without anything written down so I could have forgot a few little details. This is also a big read which is why its in spoil tags.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    It was clear early on that the neighboring catholic factions, Hungary, Venice, Sicily were looking toward the weakening Byzantine Empire as a place to expand into. The Venetians and Sicilians posed the greatest threat as they had good early infantry units which were superior to my own.

    My own economy was poor and not fit to fund a war on potentially 3 fronts, i.e. Greece against Italians, Macedonia against Hungarians and The Turks in Asia Minor. I secured an alliance with the Turks and set up Watchtowers on the borders so I could prepare for an invasion if they looked likely to betray me.

    Diplomats were also sent to the Hungarians in order to secure an alliance with them. The funds generated from trade with these people would also prove crucial in a lengthy war with the Italians.

    The decision was taken to reform the Byzantine military into 3 horse archer based armies led by Byzantines finest generals. The horse archer armies would be made mainly of Byzantine cavaly with around 20% being the elite Vardar horse archers. This would allow the entire destruction of catholic infantry based armies as they marched through the mountains of Greece.

    With the recruitment of these armies near completion the decision was taken to launch a quick war with the ill-prepared Egyptians. Emperor Alexius and Prince John were sent with around half the professional military force to capture Alexandria and Cairo. The bulk of the Egyptian army was caught unaware by the amphibious assault and they were dealt a decisive and crushing victory near Alexandria. In the following turns both Cities were captured and sacked. The Egyptians were so badly hurt they would never be able to launch a land attack on Cairo and Alexandria and peace was agreed a few turns later.

    My major mistake here was deciding not to finish off the Egyptians who had almost no military left and held only Gaza and possibly Jerusalem. I needed the army sent to Egypt to fight back the Sicilians, who had Corinth under siege, and the Venetians who were advancing on Thessalonica.

    A decisive victory pushed the Sicilians out of Greece but the Venetians proved much more resolute. Despite them taking heavy losses to my horse archer forces they continuously poured more and more troops at me. Eventually I managed to annihilate their invading forces but as I planned an advance on Ragusa the Sicilians sent their Norman Knights at Corinth and destroyed the defenders there.

    All this time I had been carefully managing my economy, building farm upgrades and ports in all my major cities. I had captures Rhodes and Iraklion, converted Rhodes to a city along with Cyprus to increase my income. As I upgraded my economy upgrades became more expensive. This became a strain on my dwindling income and it was preventing me constructing suffient military forces to inflicet fatal blows on the italians.

    I managed however to drive the Sicilians back out of Greece and launched a successful invasion of Southern Italy capturing Naples after a lengthy siege. (My army was the veterans of the Egyptian campaign led by now Emperor John, an entire horse archer army). With the Sicilians on the backfoot I pressed on and drove them out of Sicily. At this point they were effectively destroyed however they still held territories in a small colony elsewhere, perhaps Africa, I never found out. Later it was reported they has been conquered by another Kingdom.

    After the destruction of Sicily the plunder gained was used to upgrade Cairo and Constantinople and purchase various other upgrades to the Empire. Some was also reinvested in the strained military.

    This brief period of fortune for the Byzantine Empire was exactly that, brief. The Pope was reeling after the invasion of Southern Italy and Sicily and seen it as a direct attack on himself. Add to that the conversion of half of Italy to Orthodox Christianity and his declaration of war by an attack on Naples is almost justified!

    The Pope also managed to unite the nearby Catholic factions into a coalition against the Byzantine Empire. These include the Holy Roman Empire, Venice, Milan, Spain (not so close) and Hungary. Despite being good allies to the Hungarians they chose to side with the their fellow Catholics.

    So began The Italian Wars.

    Although I had built a significant Naval Force in the Aegean and around Italy, I was still only a strong nation and not a superpower and could not match the naval power of the United Catholics. Hungarys massive fleets sailed from the Black sea and blockaded all my ports while the HRE, Milan and Venice dealt with my fleet in Italy.

    The blocking of my ports caused an economic crash. I can't quite remember what year we are at now, but I think it is 1130's - 1140's.

    Initial invasions of Southern Italy and Sicily were successfully repulsed. As the economy began to start up again I retrained my army in Sicily and recruited my own version of Dismounted Knights from the population of Palermo. This force successfully invaded and capture Rome after around 50 years of fighting. I had been fighting a largely defensive battle in Greece against the Hungarians, and Constantinople itself also had to be defended.

    Around the time of Romes capture the Egyptians, still not a significant land force, had a vast navy, perhaps the 3rd largest in the eastern med after the Venetians and Milanese. They blockaded Cyprus and Alexandria. This is why I said my mistake earlier was not to destroy them when I had the chance. I now had to create an army in Egypt, by this time totally assimilated into the empire, and launch an assault on Jerusalem, the new Egyptian capital. This invasion was an incomprehendable success and the funds gained from the victory allowed me to push back the Venetians all the way to Zagreb and finally inflict a fatal blow on the Papal States force in Italy by capturing Florence.

    It was not all a succesful war however as the Milanese, who had established a vast empire in France, routed my armies in Sicily and only sued for peace when I blunted their invasion of southern Italy.

    With the economy now booming because of all the money I had been putiing into it all this time the Byzantine Empire became a true Superpower. Later campaigns have seen the capture of Venice, which was largely underdeveloped, the destruction of Hungary and the capture of all of Asia minor from the Turks who had betrayed our 150 year alliance to join a Jihad against Constantinople.

    The Turks still hold some territory in the Middle East after being ravaged by the Mongol Invasion. The Mongols now hold Antioch and share a border with me at Acre and Damascus. They are yet to make a move against me. I have strengthed my forces significantly in Gaza, Acre, Damascus and Jerusalem to destroy any invasion before it can reach Cairo, my largest city. Likewise military force as Caesarea are being upgraded to repel any attack towards Constantinople.

    A second War with the powerful Milanese/HRE alliance has broken out as they attempt to drive me out of Italy. My power now is unmatched and the empire can defeat all the nations in the known world at once. I have sent armies with my powerful new Knights, the Latikon to invade the HRE heartlands wjile forces have been dispatched to recapture Sicily form the Milanese as well as invade Sardinia and corsica and close a noose around the great city of Milan.

    The date is around 1280's

    Also another note I should add. I have used espionage to great success through this campaign. In Egypt my missionaries converted around 70% of the Jerusalem population to Orthodox during the second war with Egypt. I also have at least 5 super merchants at Egypt at any 1 time generating a massive 2000 florins per turn. They sit on the 3 sugar resources around Cairo and the 2 ivory depositis at the very southern point of the nile. Assassins have also played a major role. I have vet assassins in Hungary, Italy and Egypt constantly killing Imams, priests and enemy generals to keep my Wars running smoothly.

    I'll post some Screenshots if anyone wants to see!

    Last edited by Marius Dynamite; 07-23-2008 at 02:59.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Byzantium

    I love playing as Byzantium. You are surrounded by potential enemies and will be outclassed later in the game, but an agressive start will give you the bedrock for a formidable empire that nobody will be able to withstand regardless of their final troop mix. I play H/M.

    I like a northern border of Sophia and Ragussa. You can reach the former before the Hungarians if you start out immediately. Follow up with your princess to secure an alliance (I had to offer them 100 a turn for 6 years or so which marked their card) and they will stay peaceable for quite some time.

    The Venitians will come knocking and your key to repulsing their initial foreys and capturing their territories are your horse archers. Use your general and vards to smash thier missile troops then shoot their spears to pieces. I managed to clock up several heroic victories and a good deal of experience for my troops. on the way. In my most recent game I had planned to stop at Ragussa and let them blunt themselves on it, but found it easier to take them in the field and thereby made my way to Venice itself which led to a dilema - keep it an prepare for a long Italian war (fun but draining) or give it to an ally who has no real counter to horse archers in case they betray you - or you them. I chose to hold it, but the Danes or Scots would have been my other preference.

    In the East hit the Turks with everything you have got. Either wipe them out or accept their offer of a ceasefire when you are certian they will not be a threat ever again, but will detain the Mongols a bit later on.

    I press on against Egypt and by turn 50 aim to be rid of them. You can then mop up rebel territories and have a monumentally rich empire. I turn Rhodes, Cypress, Samyra, Corinth and Adana to cities with others to follow later, but leave several castles near Antioch or Kiev and find that one stuffed with trezibond archers and lowly (and they are) byzantine spearmen can make a big dent in a Mongol army. Obviously you have much better troops available to hold bridges and mountain passes.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Byzantium

    one of my favourite faction

  29. #29
    Megas Domestikos Member AnthoniusII's Avatar
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    Default Re: Byzantium

    CBUR (Complete Byzantine Unit Roster) project aims to recreate accuratly the armies for three main eras.
    7th to 9th century,10th to 11th one and finally 12th to 15th century.
    Here is a work of ours.

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