Byzantium

[rvg]

Sounds like you have too many castles...

[Quillan]

Definitely too many castles. In that circumstance, I'd keep Bran as a castle, Caesarea as a castle, and Trebizond as a castle. Convert the rest into cities. You might keep Corinth as a castle, that's up to you. Because of map changes, Corinth as a city doesn't make nearly as much money as Sparta did in RTW (the ports are located in the same place).

[Gray Beard]

I would only keep two castles. If you build those areas as cities you have tons of dough

[oz_wwjd]

Ok I'll do that.What's the best method of battling the mongols when they come? Fill up the cities they are going to hit with as many archers units as possible and hope I can stop their calvary before they batter down my gate??

[PseRamesses]

Ok I'll do that.What's the best method of battling the mongols when they come? Fill up the cities they are going to hit with as many archers units as possible and hope I can stop their calvary before they batter down my gate??

Use chokepoints like passes, fords and ofcourse cities to wear them down. Its argous but the only part of M2 that provides a challenge. Regarding unit combo it depends what kind of player you are. I prefer mobility and choose HA´s. A mass assault with assassins is very useful to kill off their generals, without generals your chances of defeating their armies increases significantly.

[Erik Bloodaxe]

After playing 120 years with .5 timescale as the Byzantines, I realised how wonderful they really are! I think everyone should at some point try this faction! Like mentioned before, they got excellent troops and a fantastic central starting position, the Byz have a long history if you are interested too.. It's also easy to make big money (Middle-East area) so you can live with a high army-upkeep.

I have done well with only a few castles, one in Turkey, Greece and Hungary, two in the Middle-East so don't get too many!

The way I have done it is that I expanded east first, force Turkey to become your Vassal and Egypt after that.. If they want to;( In this campaign, there was no garrison in their last city Alexandria, I offered them Jerusalem and Gaza, map information, regular tribute on 1k for 20 turns!! All I wanted back was to protect and help them (vassel) So after like 10 years of good will from the Emperor himself in Constantinople, I clicked on the city and executed the population. Poor guys.

Oh and by the way, when I’m playing the Byz with a touch of role-play, I really hate the HRE – which is neither Holy nor Roman.. Just a bunch of guys who.. Ok, I’ll stop=)

[Erik Bloodaxe]

Ops sorry, it's Vassal and timescale 1

[Gingivitis]

One of the things that made my Byzantine campaign run so smooth was the economy. The Holy Lands are great for that, especially since it seems the pope can't call a crusade on the Orthodox. Another benefit to the economy was that I didn't use many castles. The Byz fit into my playstyle perfectly as I pretty much use infantry as cannon fodder and I could get good units (well good for the Byz anyway) out of city militia barracks. Typical battles/sieges saw me losing 50% of my infantry but only 5-10% of my Cavalry and Archers. Therefore I could easily just replenish the infantry at the cities I just took and didn't have to drag piles of other forces back to retrain, or build castles everywhere.

[vonsch]

Gingi,

Do you still get those nice relics as Bizzy? From looking at the files I'm not clear if they are all generic, or if they are tied to religion.

[Gingivitis]

Sadly after talking over all of the Holy Lands the only relic I got was from Jerusalem and eventually I forgot to transfer the thing before the general that got it died.

[vonsch]

Sadly after talking over all of the Holy Lands the only relic I got was from Jerusalem and eventually I forgot to transfer the thing before the general that got it died.

Ah, but it is possible for Orthodox to get them then. Good. I've only seen one to date too, but I tend to start on the Atlantic and usually restart before more than one crusade.

[Gray Beard]

The relics appear to be really hard to get. You should remember that it was the Byzantines who were manufacturing a lot of those relics and then selling them to crusaders.

[zoyclem]

Grey Beard,

Since it's later in the game, I find that I usually have a large number of veterans of all classes, especially in the east, so I try to concentrate as many of them as I can in the Tbilisi-Trezibond regions. I build forts at the mountain passes and rivers in areas where I can limit the Mongol number of reinforcements while maximizing mine. There are a few good locations of that sort in that area. If they are spaced close enough together, units from one fortress can reinforce the other within one-two turns. I try to have one mobile force that is an entire full stack of cavalry which I usually base just north of Tbilisi.

Using this tactic, I have watched the Mongols approach from the Sarkel region in two different games, only to see them turn around when they saw the defenses, and move towards Kiev instead. Because of that I also make it a point to make sure I possess at least one seaport in the Dacia area and a fleet at Trezibond so that I can transfer troops back and forth efficiently between both areas. In the games I've played, the Mongols have taken both routes, so having a fleet nearby somewhat eases the worry of where to distribute the heaviest lines of defense.

Maintaining a large force in the region can be relatively expensive, but one can develop the Byzantine Empire into an economic powerhouse quickly enough with the proper building investments and profit-minded territorial expansion. The merchants are very useful too, so money hasn't been the biggest issue in the games I've played.

It was handy advice you provided. Thanks and cheers.

[oz_wwjd]

My greatest problem is unloyal allies.I negoiated a alliance with Venice and Hungary eary in the game after taking Durazzo from the Italians,in return for 100 tribute over 15 turns and the same for the Hungarians,while I dealt with the turks.Just as I was finishing them off the mongols arrived,so I turned my attention to dealing with them,then Italy lands a 180 men army on rhodes against my 500 man garrison,and hungary attempts to take both Constantinople,and Thessalonika with fair-size armies,even though I have reinforcements that can reinforce both cities easily.I defeated the attempted invasions but now both of them are naval blockading everything in sight and seem to regard ceasefires as demanding for some reason...

[_Aetius_]

My greatest problem is unloyal allies.I negoiated a alliance with Venice and Hungary eary in the game after taking Durazzo from the Italians,in return for 100 tribute over 15 turns and the same for the Hungarians,while I dealt with the turks.Just as I was finishing them off the mongols arrived,so I turned my attention to dealing with them,then Italy lands a 180 men army on rhodes against my 500 man garrison,and hungary attempts to take both Constantinople,and Thessalonika with fair-size armies,even though I have reinforcements that can reinforce both cities easily.I defeated the attempted invasions but now both of them are naval blockading everything in sight and seem to regard ceasefires as demanding for some reason...

It's something every faction has to deal with, Byzantium has 3 things which increase the liklihood of such invasions. 1, it's Orthodox Christian, therefore fair game for every other faction 2, geography, it sits between the eastern frontiers of Latin christendom and the western frontiers of the Islamic territories in the east 3, it's cities are wealthy and many dominate important strategic locations.

Your also on the road to the holyland so crusades are going to march through your territories, Byzantium location is both an advantage and disadvantage.

[oz_wwjd]

yeah it'd be nice but if the AI repected being allied and didn't drop it at the drop of a hat but.It's annoying,sometimes..

[Frederick_I_Barbarossa]

Byzantium is one of my favorite factions in the entire game (behind, of course, HRE). I just wish the Orthodox factions had a Pope-like figure in the person of the Patriarch, but oh well.
One thing I have noticed in my numerous campaigns as Byzantium is that capturing Durazzo almost ALWAYS leads to war with Venice. I find it to be an excellent strategy to avoid taking Durazzo and avoid conflict with most of the European powers. I tend to concentrate on mopping up Rebels (I love sending expeditions north across the Black Sea and capturing the Crimea) and, when war for expansion becomes inevitable, attacking the Muslims.

[Gingivitis]

Durazzo is such a dump anyway it's easy to avoid taking it. I never take it unless I already have Ragusa. If you don't have Zagreb pretty much all of Venice's attacks come for Ragusa so you can keep an under-teched Durazzo safe by fighting at a developed castle instead of a cheezy wooden wall. Once I got Ragusa taking Italy was a snap. As I posted somewhere else, when advancing I lose a ton of infantry but keep my cavalry and archers pretty safe. Italy has developed barracks everywhere so I can replace infantry losses quickly and not rely on shipping units back and forth from Ragusa. Once in Italy the higher base conversion% of Orthodox churches coupled with the Ikoner's Studio means I can move priests ahead to the next target while the one I just took gets a steady conversion. Throw in a few spies and blow up some buildings and you can cause any city in Italy to rebel eventually since only one or 2 seem to have spies in their own cities. Works great if you're just at war with Venice and don't want to get into it with Milan, HRE, or the Papacy but still want to expand. If you're in Italy you may be close to the 45 province limit, but if not make sure it's a priority to take a city on the west coast you have a port there so you don't have to sail around Naples.

[Harve]

Seems challenging and interesting- ill try them.

BTW Gray Beard- Great post (the really long one)

[Harve]

I would only keep two castles. If you build those areas as cities you have tons of dough

Ive done that- ive kept Sofia as a castle while fighting Venice, Hungary and Poland AT THE SAME TIME! Ive also kept Adana (i think thats the name the one above antioch) as a castle whilst fighting the Turks. I must admit in RTW the Brutii were swimming in gold in Greece but now its not so rich. I have Asia Minor up to Trezibod (sp?) and Adana and as North as Bran and as West as Durazzo but none of the islands to the south on turn 25. I get just 5000 surplus a turn for recruitment and contruction (Constantinople has been waiting to upgrade for ages). Its not enough. I have enough troops though; there are a stunning 3 full stacks seiging various cities and 3 half ones and about 7 little ones mainly coming from my inner cities to the battle zones on the outside. I now have 14 provinces. Its incredibly hard actually, the finances are a lot worse than in Russia as Hungary (and thats said to be bad) and im just fighting on sheer military power. I think i need to half upkeep rates for every unit.

[Quillan]

In vanilla RTW, you had Thermon, Corinth, Sparta, Athens, Larissa, Thessalonica, and Byzantium, just on the western side of the Aegean, with Pergamun, Sardis, and Halicarnassus on the eastern side, as well as Rhodes and Kydonia on islands. In M2TW, the western side only has Constantinople, Thessalonica and Corinth. The eastern side only has Nicosia and Smyrna, with Rhodes and Iraklion on islands. The trade is much lower as a result.

[Harve]

OK thankyou

[Atreides]

I will post my campaign with Byzantium soon.

But I got a maybe odd question as player of the 'old' MTW. WTF are our nafta guys??? They where so funny. Why are they not on Byzantium side?

[Tristrem]

I have to say this is one of the most fun factions to play as in the game. I don't know if it is the purple or what, but the way they play, it reminds me of a parthia campaign in RTW. Great horse archers and heavy cav. and so-so to decent foot soldiers.

[Count Zero]

I have had more fun in this campaign than any others (including RTW campaigns). Initially, I expanded West and left the Turks as a buffer against Egypt and the impending arrival of the Mongols, but the Egyptians were slow and the Mongols, when they did show up, headed West to Kiev instead of South through Tblisi.

Anyway I have endured a Jihad called against my Capital, have had Crusaders marching up and down my territory, and the Mongols stomping all over the homeland. Together with flood, earthquake and plague it has been a very eventful campaign indeed.

Strategically it is unlike other campaigns where you might just expand or consolidate, with Byzantium you have to be prepared to take a backward step now and again. As far as expanding goes then the player must be prepared to be patient, incremental and opportunistic.

[Gray Beard]

I think the Byzantine Heavy cavalry are way to hard to reach.

I mainly use infantry and siege equipment. The only heavy cavalry I can generally get are Mercenary Frankish Knights and Armenian and Alan Cavalry

[Quillan]

IMO, the Byzantine heavy cavalry are almost completely unnecessary. I went the bulk of my campaign with the Empire using no heavy cavalry apart from general's bodyguards. Mass quantities of horse archers, properly used=victory. That's where the strength of this faction lies.

I'm certain you can use the knight types effectively, if you want to play things that way, but the horse archers are easier to get and amazingly effective.

Remember: "If one unit is good, fifty has got to be better."

[Malkut]

Well, having put a few hours into the Bizzy campaign with the 1.2 leaked patch, I can tell you that things are now different. We can have peace in our time.

On M/M, I married into the Hungarian royal family and the Turks accepted an alliance agreement before they ever declared war. What's amazing is, so far, both have been iron clad.

Alliances work better, now. Venice leapt at the opportunity to make an alliance with me, and when they did, they signed a peace treaty with Hungary. I suspect this would have held, too, had they not been at war already. They later attacked the Hungarians, and I was given a choice which to back, and that’s NEVER happened to me before, probably because alliances have never lasted long enough. Eventually, Venice did start a war with me by blockading a port, but only after I opted out of our agreement.

The Turks have behaved rather honorably. I use watchtowers and spies to keep a close eye on them. So far, they’ve packed one of their more useless family members off to a fort near my border with a couple of militia units, and left him there. They have been picking off rebel settlements, but aside from a diplomat, having trespassed at all. I’m hoping that this will last until the Mongols arrive and that they finish each other off.

With three secure flanks, I have a lot of freedom to expand. I’m preparing a force to attack Venice, and have set down a full stack in Egypt. The empty desert is ideal horse archer land. I’ve claimed the Nile, and am going to fortify my position, and expand West over Africa. I might push East as well, and when the Mongols start to arrive, I’ll gift the closest city to the Pope, and let the Catholics and Turks worry about it.

[Kaldhore]

I will post my campaign with Byzantium soon.

But I got a maybe odd question as player of the 'old' MTW. WTF are our nafta guys??? They where so funny. Why are they not on Byzantium side?

Napatha Throwers?

The dudes who threw clay oil grenades?

lol yea they were funny, usually hitting their own guys. But when they worked well, they could turn a losing battle into a winning one

[Moah]

Napatha Throwers?

The dudes who threw clay oil grenades?

lol yea they were funny, usually hitting their own guys. But when they worked well, they could turn a losing battle into a winning one

Back where they belong - in the armies of Allah!