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Thread: The Turks

  1. #61
    Senior member Senior Member Dutch_guy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelus
    Dutch_guy,

    Janissary heavy infantry is available when you build a Dar al-Imara, which is a town hall building, at large city level.

    Janissary archers are available after you build militia barracks, at huge city level.
    Ah, thanks a lot. The Sultan has promised to send you his best camel.

    It would be most unwise to refuse...


    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis
    Also, just to let you know Dutch if you haven't fought Mongols before, don't bring any Janissary heavy infantry, bring dismounted sipahis or saracen militia instead. The only melee you're going to get into are charges by Mongol heavy cav, which will wipe out your expensive JHI in a hurry (example: Mongol general charges a unit of my JHI, I lose about 90 men in 120 in less than 5 sec.).


    Thanks for that, I was actually planning on going JHI heavy on them - go figure...

    Instead I'll probably tech up to the JA as you advised me, those stakes will probably come in handy. Strange that they have stakes by the way, would probably never figured that out had you guys not told me. Not complaining though, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marquis
    I try to pick 1 city to preferably tech up to Huge so I can get the Janissary archers quickly, who, with their stakes, is an instrumental unit in fighting Mongols. Now Antioch, fully teched out, will make you 10k a turn, so that should be the first city you'd want to tech up (if I remember correctly, Iconium wasn't that far ahead of Antioch as far as buildings when I took it on what, turn 2 or 3?).
    Indeed, Antioch is my main JHI recruiting city. Plus, it's also nice to have such a cash cow in the middle of ones empire. Although I imagine it can get a bit hectic with all those crusader armies coming my way.

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  2. #62

    Default Re: The Turks

    Any one know the details about vassals? I have the byzantines in a pinch and think I may be able to make them my vassal.

  3. #63

    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by TheJace
    Any one know the details about vassals? I have the byzantines in a pinch and think I may be able to make them my vassal.
    It's very hard. I think you have to have them down to one city, surrounded at least 3-1. You must have overrall 5-1 military (easy enough by this point) and offer upwards of 30k. That's from what others have said. I've never managed myself (laziness more than anything else. If you're that weak you deserve to become part of my glorious empire. You'll thank me in the long run...)

  4. #64
    Member Member Bongaroo's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Yes, the crusading armies are a bit ridiculous, since the dirty crusaders usually have 2 or 3 waves of 2 or 3 full stacks. At least you know they are coming and can prepare some ambushes along the normal routes. Now if they drop them by sea you might not have time to see it coming but trying to sink those fleets is about the easiest way to stop them.

    Once caught a mongel jihad full stack in a fleet of 3 ships and was able to sink them, felt pretty good.

  5. #65

    Default Re: The Turks

    The Turkish are a lot like the Italians inasmuch as they have excellent garrison units; all of their best standard infantry are produced by cities rather than castles. Because you don't need to pay upkeep costs for garrisoned units, and because cities generate much greater revenue than castles, it makes sense to convert most of your starting castles and captured castles to cities. That allows you to field a massive army of strong but cost-free infantry units while generating a large income. With one or two cash-cow settlements (like Antioch) added to this mix, the Turks will never have cash-flow problems. For this reason, I don't understand a couple of posts which complained that the initial disadvantage of the Turkish is that they are poor.

    Furthermore, most cities will be able to train Turkomans and Sipahis early in their tech development, so castles are only needed for archers and occasional elite units, like Naffatun, Sipahi Lancers and Dismounted Sipahi Lancers. Afghan Javelinmen mercenaries are so superior to Turkish Javelinmen that I prefer them despite their higher upkeep costs.

    I used only two castles to crank out my archers and the occasional elite units for my empire. I teched up the cities to produce Saracens and cavalry as soon as possible, then the Janissary units.

    I alway try to get the Horsebreeders Guild Headquarters and Swordsmiths Guild Headquarters, no matter which faction I try to play, but the Swordsmiths Guild Headquarters is nearly impossible for the Turkish. The only way that you can get a Swordsmiths Guild early in the game is by getting a Citadel (or Huge City) as soon as possible, and then building the entire line of smiths -- from Leather Tanner all the way to Armour Factory -- at the fortress.

    In order to do this, I moved my governor with the highest Chivalry rating into Caesaria and converted it to a town on the first turn of the game, and set the taxes to "Low". I then built all 1-turn and 2-turn structures that improve population growth (small mahjid, an inn, land clearance) followed by all 3+ turn farm upgrades, which would stay intact after converting it back to a castle. (Of course, when you convert the town back into a castle, the new recruits are going to destroy the inn. You know how much those ancient soldiers hated their inns!)

    I ignored the alert when the population reached 6000 and avoided upgrading it to a Minor City so that I would be able to convert it back to a castle when the population was a little closer to the 9000-population-requirement of a Citadel. After exhausting the farms upgrades, I built a town watch which only takes 2 turns and translates into a Drill Square after the conversion to a castle (whereas it would have taken 3 turns if I'd waited until after converting it back to a castle, because the mustering hall must be built first.) After converting it back to a castle, I immediately upgraded it to a fortress and then a citadel and purchased the entire line of smith upgrades, one right after the other. After the Armor Factory was built, the Swordsmiths Guild was immediately offered.

    However, a Swordsmiths Guild is more useful in a Turkish City than a Turkish castle, since the castles are used primarily to train archers (as I mentioned earlier), which don't receive the Swordsmiths Guild weapons upgrade. So I changed Caesaria back into a city immediately after it had been awarded the Swordsmiths Guild.

    I then cycled my existing units through Caesaria to receive their upgrades, and started using Caesaria as the central location for producing new garrison units. This not only prevents the logistics problems of sending units to Caesaria to get upgraded, but it prevents the additional cost of upgrading a unit after it has already been built.

    In fact, this approach was so successful, that I did the same thing in Adana, except that I left it as a castle. Now I had two settlements for training units with the Swordsmiths Guild's weapons upgrade, one for garrison and city-based units and the other for elite castle-based units; either one could be used for upgrading mercenaries, generals, or units that were trained at a different settlement. My second castle was a little easier to develop, because it did not have a Swordsmiths Guild, as it was used exclusively for building archers, horse archers, and Naffatun.

    For the Horsebreeders Guild Headquarters I chose Iconium, which was a simple matter of developing the racetrack line of buildings, throwing races, and cranking out cavalry (and sometimes immediately disbanding them, just so I'd get points toward the Horsebreeder Guild objectives.) Of course, you also need to focus on population growth so that Iconium becomes a Huge City as soon as possible, in order to qualify for the guild headquarters.

    While I was gearing up Caesaria and Adana to give me a technological edge by the time the Mongols arrived, I expanded my empire as usual, starting with rebel provinces. I found it possible to take Tbilisi, Trebizond, Adana and Antioch by Turn 7 without building a single military unit, just using my starting units. (If you have trouble with this you can always hire a few mercs and disband them after taking a settlement.) Several people mentioned on this forum that the forces in Yerevan should immediately invade Tbilisi and then move on toward Trebizond from the first turn of the game, and I agree. I also used my forces in Iconium and Caesaria to take Adana, and combined them with my forces from Mosul to take Antioch.

    One other thing that I try to establish each game, regardless of which faction I'm playing, is the Merchants Guild Headquarters. Antioch, being a cash cow, was the obvious choice. Constantinople would have been another good choice if I had attacked the Byzantines first rather than rebel territories, but I chose the Antioch route. I built the merchant and shipping line of buildings as quickly as possible and kept the taxes as high as possible in Antioch, and cranked out as many merchants as possible in Antioch and sent them to nearby trade goods (like the spices in Aleppo). I also had my diplomat establish trade agreements with everyone I could find. Soon I was offered the Merchants Guild, and I used similar techniques until I had a Merchants Guild Headquarters.

    Although my taxation was set as high as possible in Antioch, which counts toward points for a Merchants Guild, taxation was kept as low as possible in all other provinces n order to encourage growth. This is particularly important early in the game, since small cities grow much more slowly. My main sources of income were Antioch and my diplomat, who was busy on the Italian Peninsula selling trade agreements and alliances for obscene amounts of money.

    The trick with alliances is that an alliance isn't worth very much to anyone if you're not allied with anyone else. So you give away or sell cheaply the first couple of alliances, until an alliance with you is worth something to someone. It becomes worth something to them if it will keep someone else from attacking them. So they look at who you are already allied with and decide if it's worth anything to purchase an alliance from you to keep themselves from being attacked for a while, so they can build their infrastructure a little before warfare becomes inevitable.

    It seems like everyone sends their diplomats to Rome, and several factions have settlements there, so it's a good place to establish/sell trade agreements (which count as points toward the Merchants Guild) and to establish/sell alliances. In addition to generating a lot of cash, it will protect you to some extent from early invasion threats other than the Byzantines, who will attack the Turks fairly early no matter what the political scene looks like.

    The very first alliance to establish is with the Pope himself. Don't sell him anything, just give him free trade rights and a free alliance and he'll like you and your relationship will improve. Then you can butter him up by giving him a few gifts of 500 to 700 florins (depending on which difficulty level you selected when you started the game). In fact, if you want, you can butter him all the way until you're relationship is "Perfect." With the Pope as your bosom buddy, you'll find that the other Catholic factions are open to an alliance too, especially if you already have several of them established. Your alliances will become worth more and more. Establishing alliances with all or most of the Christian factions has the additional benefit of temporarily protecting you from a Crusade in Antioch early in the game; even if a Crusade is called, few will answer.

    Meanwhile, another diplomat can forge an alliance with the Egyptians and butter them up a little too. Early in the game, you'll only have to worry about incursions by the Byzantines, allowing you to develop your settlements for a larger income and better military technologies.

    With a +2 valor bonus for all cavalry from the Horsebreeders Guild Headquarters, and the ability to provide all melee units with weapons upgrades from the Swordsmiths Guild, and the massive income established by the Merchants Guild that is not squandered away on your sizable army of strong and reliable garrison units, you should be in a good position to conquer the other factions.

  6. #66
    Member Member Boyar Karhunkynsi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    I've began playing the Turks, third time 'round, and have done things much better. I'm at turn 97 and am fighting a long war with the Mongols.

    A few things I've learned:

    1) When facing Mongols, don't use Horse Archers. This is how so many people get screwed over. Used spears and Archers. Mass archers. Preferably Ottoman Infantry, as they can deal with almost anything that come their way.

    2) Flanking their Cavalry with your Cavalry works well. Sipahi Lancers or the unit who's name I can't spell (it starts with a Q, it's heavy cavalry, you know what I mean) are ideal for the job. Their charge should flatten a sizable amount of their cavalry.

    3) Gunpowder. Janissary Musketeers own all Mongol units. A couple of veteran cannons will level the opposition general.

    4) Yerevan will always hate you. Try to keep it under your control, though.

    5) Get an alliance with Hungary and tell them to provide military assistance against the Byzantines. When you kick the Byzantines out of Constantinople, they will go and attack Bran, more often than not. Optionally Venice, too, but I haven't seen the Byzantines try to fight them in anything more than skirmishes.

    6) Turn Mosul into a city in the early game. It has a good population and will become one of your main centres, and when the Mongols come, stock it up with Militia and Janissary Archers. They probably won't attack, but it's good to have something there to reclaim a settlement after a now-wounded Mongol army takes it.

    7) Take Alexandria and Jerusalem. You will get huge money out of these places, don't need to bother too much with the rest of Egypt, though. The Mongols will never go to Alexandria, either, so it's pretty safe.

    8) Take Iraklion, Rhodes and Nicosia(sp?). Convert all to cities. Seen as AI will extremely rarely attempt an amphibious assault, these places are more of less assured incomes. Nicosia is also a good place to launch a reclamation mission to Antioch, Aleppo, Jerusalem or Damascus.

    Well, this is what I've come up with third time around. This time it's on the hardest setting possible, though, so I have had to think things through more.

    I hope this benefits someone.

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  7. #67

    Default Re: The Turks

    I was really suprised by the Turks, I expected to be poverty-stricken and struggling to make ends meet, however I became extremely wealthy early on.

    The first thing I did was construct a series of roads due to the vastness of the empire, also I massed available forces from Iconium, Caeserea and Mosul to advance on Antioch, my first target. I starved Antioch and forced the garrison to sally easily defeating it and sacking the city, which I think gave me about 7000 florins it memory serves. Which sure helped.

    I then decided to try and absorb as many rebel provinces as possible, namely Rhodes, Tbilisi, Aleppo and Baghdad, Rhodes fell easily and Aleppo followed the same pattern as Antioch and I launched a successful Jihad against Baghdad. My armies are made up primarily of Saracen militia, Turkomans and various archer units along with whatever mercenaries are of value.

    However I am still unable to take Tbilisi due to a shortage of troops at this time.

    All of these conquests relatively early on raised my coffers to around 35,000 with a decent profit of around 3000 thanks to trade with Egypts provinces.

    Byzantium decided to attack me and briefly besieged Iconium with a single stack, 3 defeats in a row (destruction of 3 stacks) hasnt slowed them down though and they keep hiring hundreds of HA mercenaries which are often a match for my own HA and foot archers.

    The result is stalemate, I win the battles but struggle to push onto Nicaea because of constant Byzantine armies swarming around, also the Byzantine navy is hurting trade, which effectively died out when the Egyptians declared war on me.

    My position now is financially precarious (around 60 turns in) i'm not making much money, but cities need to be expanded and armies need to be trained, I also need to establish somekind of fleet at some point to. My allies have both betrayed me so I have no sea trade and large military commitments.

    All in all it's been suprisingly fun so far, but it is getting tough, I feel I can hold the Byzantine back for quite some time, so I can campaign in the holyland against Egypt. If I can seize Jerusalem and the surrounding territories it should repair the damage done to my economy and force Egypt to sue for peace.

    If I can do that I can develop a fleet to challenge Byzantium and reestablish trade atleast among my own provinces and finally remove Cyprus, the persistant thorn in my side that it is.

  8. #68
    For TosaInu and the Org Senior Member The_Emperor's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Well my first goal as the Turks was to head West immediately...

    I moved my Sultan at the head of what forces I could muster (backed up with a lot of Mercs) towards Smyrna. It was a high risk because I knew the Byzantines had their eyes on it and I knew from early attempts at a Byz campaign it was rebel.

    Turned out I was right and I was able to quickly sack the place while the Byz army approached. From then on I quickly dispatched him over the sea and nabbed Rhodes converting it to a city.

    After that moment the Byz attacked and declared war on me and after a few turns I was able to bring a second army to bear on them. My faction leader led an assault on Nicaea while his son led a Jihad on Constantinople which pretty much crippled the Byz very early on.

    Right now things have developed strangely, I took Adana, Antioch, Edessa and Aleppo with a new Jihad on Bagdad and Egypt declaring war. Trebizond is amusingly enough still rebel and I am travelling south towards Jerusalem now. My hope is to be able to drill south enough to take Egypt and have time to fortify to prepare for the Mongol invasion when it comes.

    Money is starting to improve and sacking of settlements during my conquests seems to produce enough money to keep me going.
    Last edited by The_Emperor; 03-16-2007 at 23:12.
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  9. #69

    Default Re: The Turks

    Wow is it just me or do we get tons of family members and generals in the beginning? Also why are the Byz sending their leader and other family members so much? At the first attack on my captial, i killed the leader and one family memeber, after few more turns, they sent another leader with little army and got killed also..

  10. #70

    Default Re: The Turks

    i have finished the holy roman and the turks on hard it was real fun they have complete different armies.
    Holy romans had attacks from everywhere because they are in the middle of europe that was pretty hard.
    Playing the Turks was not that hard in early i think. Yes, you dont have enough money thats true. And i didnt know how to declare a jihad after playing with roman because they had a Pope:)) i discovered it on late period. it really works though even in that time. the byzantines and the crusades are nothing especially crusades if you play well in battlefield. i even managed to conquer Rome and all of italia for fun:) i got bored of crusades and took action. sent ships full of armies, conquered sicilia first. went to north.
    but something worse than crusades and byz. and egypt was coming:) i was waiting for them in baghdad.. it was a terrible mistake.. they came from northern bordes.. their armies are the same of turkish armies. all of their inf. are archers like the ottoman inf. ive put full armies in cities but it can not work because they engage in combat 3 to 1. 3 mongol armies are invading your city and you can just control one:) i have left those cities and decided not to fight with them until i am ready. that really hurts:) they say" i will take your lands and women soon" when you click on them.it must have been hard times:) i weakened them over the mountains. waited them to attack 3 to 1 but with janis. heavy inf. and archers you can easily defeat them on mountains. just place them like in the lotr the two towers. after that i have finished all their armies with janisseriies and some hand gunners(they are not that good janisseries are far more better)

  11. #71

    Default Re: The Turks

    Where can one find what r the Turks units ??? and what r the best

  12. #72

    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by qal
    Where can one find what r the Turks units ??? and what r the best

    A) Start a Turk Campaign. Go to a city. Click on building browser. Click on the top building in the barracks/archery/stables list. Right click on each unit and read stats. Repeat with a castle. This is the only way to see what builds them and how hard they'll be to get. The methods below are easier for jsut seeing all the different units.

    B) Start a custom battle. Choose the Truks. Read each unit in the list.

    C) Go to http://www.totalwar.co.kr/ Click on the Turks. Click on each unit.

    D) Go to the Units thread on this forum. Read all units (not easy to isolate just turks but best comparison for seeing if you get better units that, say, venice.

    Hope that helps.

  13. #73
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Playing with Turks may be hard for you depending on your skills on battle map.If you're an experienced player,inspecting their archers and horse archers,you will have no problem.If you are noob and don't know what to do,Turks won't be very comfortable for you.

    My suggestion is "fighting".Fight all the way.You will have money problems at first but your 1st quality Turkish archers and Sipahis will get rank and crash whatever they hit.Don't hesitate attacking byzantine cities and castles.Take Smyrna(Izmir) first and drive to the north to Nicea.Meanwhile your units will be very experienced.Use your Bodyguard units wisely to exterminate all of the encountered units.Have at least 2 bodyguards in imperial army.Do not reject adoptions for Sultan Jalal and Crown Prince Mustafa.They will help you in your campaigns.If they lose unit(s),go to city and spend 2 turns,they will complete themselves quickly.Have some Turkomans or Peasant Archers in case of spending them for False Attack.Make a false attack and surround main units of enemy,use your archers and finally charge with Bodyguards.
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  14. #74
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Can anyone give me some advice for managing my imams? they tend to become heretics quite easily... also how can I counter the conversions of the priests? is there a way to kill them without assasins?
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  15. #75

    Default Re: The Turks

    1. Group the Imams together

    2. A theological guild (in Iconium?) gives better starting stats to Imams
    plus the guild spreads its love through all your citys, not just the one hosting the guild.

    3. Enemy priests arnt so bad...they spread other religions, which your Imams convert, and get XP for.

    4. Leave a Imam in a provonce for 3 turns (dont move him, or even click on him) where there is a 70% or more state religon and he will get a 'monk = +1 peity.'

    Basically, put a group of 5-10 Imams in a province with low state religon % that you just conqoured, they should lose 1-2 of thier number to heresey, but the rest will all level up as the state religon % increases.

    Dont feel bad, Ive admitted defeat in a campaign coz I got beaten down by a heretic production line.

  16. #76
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    you cannot have mines in every region, can you? in which regions can you build a mine considering the first four regions you start with turks? also when does the ai let you build them, I mean what triggers it? thanx and appologies for my ignorance!!!!
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  17. #77
    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    For mines to be built the region needs silver or gold resources. No trigger or anything more complicated here.

    As far as I know none of your staring regions provides these. But you can build mines in Trapezunt/Trabzon for sure.

    Anyway, 2000 florins for mines is a lot in the early game. I usually start by building small masjids, followed by roads, farms and markets. Don't build ports early on, because this will lead to war with Byzantium or Egypt, and you want to avoid that until you are ready for them.

    Mines should be built as soon as your economy is stable and you've conquered a few regions. Don't wait too long to get the most benefit out of them though.

    It's quite important to send your imams to Nicaea in the beginning and put your spy into Constantinople. This will give the bizzies some disorder and distract them from attacking you.

    It seems to me that Egypt is far more dangerous for the Turks than Byzantium.

  18. #78
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavius Merobaudes
    For mines to be built the region needs silver or gold resources. No trigger or anything more complicated here.

    As far as I know none of your staring regions provides these. But you can build mines in Trapezunt/Trabzon for sure.

    Anyway, 2000 florins for mines is a lot in the early game. I usually start by building small masjids, followed by roads, farms and markets. Don't build ports early on, because this will lead to war with Byzantium or Egypt, and you want to avoid that until you are ready for them.

    Mines should be built as soon as your economy is stable and you've conquered a few regions. Don't wait too long to get the most benefit out of them though.

    It's quite important to send your imams to Nicaea in the beginning and put your spy into Constantinople. This will give the bizzies some disorder and distract them from attacking you.

    It seems to me that Egypt is far more dangerous for the Turks than Byzantium.
    Yuo said you start with building masjids. Does that mean you do not start raising big armies in the beginning. I mean when I was playing vh/vh with turks and built masjids in the beginning my economy collapsed somehow... Anyway thanx for the mine tips.
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  19. #79
    Beware! Relentless Looter! Member Flavius Merobaudes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    First I build small masjids in every region to get a constant conversion to islam. I believe it lowers the appearance of heretics somewhat. As they take only one turn to be built, it's not a big deal.

    The Turks have a very good starting location I think. Just like Scotland or Egypt. You don't need such a big army in the beginning, as the only one who would attack you is Byzantium. But I've made the experience that you can prevent that by being aggressive with your spies and imams. And I ally with them at first.

    Anyway, I'm very careful not to recruit too many troops. I recruit one unit of Sipahi in Caesarea (Kayseri) and one in Mossul. That's it for the first few turns. The other money is spent for buildings and imams from Iconium (Konya). My eastern army from Mossul and Yerevan heads north for Tiflis and Trapezunt, while my western army crusades to Antioch taking Adana on the way. Once you have taken Antioch there should be no more finacial problems for the rest of the game.

    After that reinforce Ikonium to prevent that the Byzzies break our alliance. Be aware of Egypt. They will attack you when there are no more rebel settlements in between you. Make sure you crush them fast. Having taken Egypt you have practically won. Prepare to attack Nicaea, take out some crusaders and get ready for the invasions.

  20. #80
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    In my opinion,key of the game for all factions is "valored and armored" units.

    This means minimizing the army is not a valuable strategy.Overpopulate your army,fight as much as you can.after you conquered strategic cities(what are these cities?answer yourself.In my opinion;Tiblisi,Adana,Antioch,Baghdad,Smyrna have priority),you can feed more army.But you will have high valored sipahis,Turkish archers and -most importantly- ghulam bodyguards in hand.This means you can conquer more and more.Since Turkish faction never has family member problems (they reproduce themselves constantly and adoptions are also very useful) you will always have the greatest army(not in terms of numbers of units but quality is assured means having capability of winning 700 vs 1500 enemies fights)
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  21. #81

    Default Re: The Turks

    agree with Tugrul Cagri.

    Especially since mounted archers are the easiest/most valuable to improve (imho).

    I'd add the two northern egytian cities: Cairo and Alexandria which are two really nice cash makers.

  22. #82
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    I agree with you guys too. If you do not get those cities later your economy collapses. Playing aggressive is a must with turks. However after like 30th turn playing vh/vh I started to have problems dealing with both egypt and byzantium at the same time. they were at peace with everyone else and Byzans had like 3 full stack armies all the time which stopped me going further west. The sipahis are cool but trying to siege a castle with horse archers really difficult. Also turkish navy sucks and I lost a lot of money because of naval wars. But if you don't make ports you cannot make money. By the way Tugrul Cagri did you keep Adana as a castle?
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  23. #83
    Guardian of the Fleet Senior Member Shahed's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Very nice tips.

    BTW you do not need to seige with Horse Archers. Stay away from the enemy's cities, kill their armies in the field, then march to the city, pick up one mercenary infantry, build a ram, and in you go. Take 2 merc infantry if there's more than 1 unit in the city. Once you take the city disband the mercenaries.
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  24. #84
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Is there a specific time when the mongols just dissappear like the way they appeared? Cause they like have all the cities between iconium and cairo and they are really giving me a hard time. Do I have to destroy every one of their armies. The more I push west they seem to pursue me and I just wonder if anybody was succesful in destroying the mongols armies?
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  25. #85
    Barbarian of the north Member Magraev's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Sorry - they don't disappear (unles you wipe them out offcourse). A good tip is to train a lot of assassins and going after the leaders. Hard if they have a large empire though.

    Ive seen the egyptians and turks both eliminating the mongols several times.
    Nope - no sig what so ever.

  26. #86

    Default Re: The Turks

    The turks are imho the best faction in this part of the campaign map to eliminate the mongols.

    Units:
    All you need is 4 to 6 unit of Janissary archers, 4 to 6 dismounted Sipahis lancers, 3-4 Naffatums and add a few turkish archers / ottoman infantry

    Strat:
    Place this stack at a bridge (typically near Bagdad or Antioch) and wait... When the mongols attack you...On the battlefield use the Janissary archers as first row immediatly at the exit of the bridge, with their stacks planted in they'll render the heavy\light cavs almost useless and killing a lot of them in the process if I'm not mistaken. Don't forget to set their skirmish mode on, you don't want to loose too many of them.

    Place the dismounted Sipahis lancers immediatly behind them in guard mode with the Naffatums right behind them with their skirmish mode off. You can place the remanining units behind/on the side with skirmish mode off.

    You're all set for a bloodbath (and not yours...).

    Behind or on the side of your Janissary archers leave escape routes, otherwise they'll obstruct the way of your lancers and some will get killed...As soon as the skirmish mode kicks in, set it off and do this fast retreat yourself through these routes.

    Once most of them got out of the way quickly advance your lancers and the naffatum up to the stakes (naffatum staying behind of course).

    Et VoilÓ! A good mongol kebab!

    Just be careful for your archers might start firing on your own troops from the back, so think about that when placing them...a few variations to this plan are possible/advisable. You can add artillery, then same as just above, make sure it doesn't fire at your troops. Cav can also be nice to run down the fleeing mongols...

    Last point: some mongol stacks have some artillery (mostly rocket launcher and trebuchet as I recall). Personally I always manage to bait and get the mongols troops to attack me and cross the bridge right from the start which makes their artillery kill as much their own as mine...
    To bait, use a cav unit (with some decent armor preferably) , advance this unit towards/on the bridge, let the enemy's archers fire once and then retreat using the Janissary archers's retreat route.
    If you can't bait I would simply wait without moving my troops too much, maybe put some space between the lancers, same for the naffatums...

    Hope I'm clear enough and didn't forget anything. You can try this strat in custom battle, it's actually quite enjoyable to see such a slaughter...

  27. #87
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Thanx a lot for the advice. Unfortunately they conquered my every region in anatolia except nicaea. while they were doing so I eliminated the byzatium and now hungary is about to be eliminated but ironically mongols will replace me the way I replaced the byzantium. I wonder what it will look like when the timurids start fighting with the mongols.
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  28. #88
    Pipr÷kande Nňjd Member Bulawayo's Avatar
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    Default Sv: The Turks

    In my Turkish campaign the Mongols first appeared in Armenia/Georgia, sacked only one of my cities, and then continued down to Egyptian Jerusalem which they took and founded their empire on. While I was busy up north fighting the Byzantines, Hungarians, Venetians and Russians I never noticed that the Mongols nearly exterminated Egypt. When I did notice I sent down fleets with elite troops and cannons, landed them next to Mongol cities and took them within the same turn. Then I returned to my fleet and gifted the cities back to Egypt. That way I could easily take out a lot of the Mongol family members since they were many times alone in the cities, I also could wipe out a lot of their original triple silver elite troops too. The Mongols continued to retake their lost cities, but this strategy kept on weakening them for a long time. At the moment they only have two stacks left in Gaza, which I am about to take very soon. But before that I will take Papal Sicily and gift it to the Mongols, so I don't have to face the Mongol hordes when they lose their last city. And then I was happy to have the Timurids invading Russia instead of me

  29. #89
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mete Han
    I agree with you guys too. If you do not get those cities later your economy collapses. Playing aggressive is a must with turks. However after like 30th turn playing vh/vh I started to have problems dealing with both egypt and byzantium at the same time. they were at peace with everyone else and Byzans had like 3 full stack armies all the time which stopped me going further west. The sipahis are cool but trying to siege a castle with horse archers really difficult. Also turkish navy sucks and I lost a lot of money because of naval wars. But if you don't make ports you cannot make money. By the way Tugrul Cagri did you keep Adana as a castle?
    City and castle selection is not a very important issue.Try to keep them at the same number if you are not heavily attacked.(I mean if you are trying to push both byzantium and egypt get +1 or +2 castle)otherwise have half of your towns as cities and other half as castle.another important point:you should convert your boundary cities (such as Caeseria,Iconium and Aleppo let's say) to castle for military reasons.Your inner cities (since they are away from battle field)may produce necessary income.

    I will tell you some (crucial in my opinion) battle tactics:

    1-when deployment stage begins,you should place all your forces on top of hill(s),sticking together.your opponent must run a long and steep way to reach you which means a very important advantage for you.mainly try to defend yourself,this will help you since you can balance your force and can start a rush at the right time.sticking together allows you to resist being surrounded easily.If you are surrounded,collect your force at a weak point of enemy and cleave them,make your way out of surrounding.

    2-If your enemy has too many units (for example 700 men) cpu generally divides them into 2 main armies,and then attack from 2 direction.if you stop them and then try to catch them,you will have a very big space between your armies.cpu uses this space;splits your army into 2 and then surrounds them.try to keep your lines.after you stop first attacker(s) units,do not catch them.If you have to catch them,try to keep your lines.Let no space emerge between your units.

    3-About sieges:try to maintain sieges.At the end of siege,you defend yourself against the attacking army which gives you advantage on field.If you attack city,you lose a lot of units.

    This tips are enough for now.If you comment on these tactics,I will reveal some more tactics.
    Even though you know a thousand things, ask the man who knows one.

  30. #90
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mete Han
    you cannot have mines in every region, can you? in which regions can you build a mine considering the first four regions you start with turks? also when does the ai let you build them, I mean what triggers it? thanx and appologies for my ignorance!!!!
    Mines?Forget about the mines until you reach very high population (and tax income as a result) in your cities.If you are too much insist on income (I do not advice:produce more and more military units instead)try to use masjids.They increase city tax amounts significantly due to the public order.Also merchants (since they have no upkeep costs)are very useful.Mines have constant income but you can increase your tax income with public order and population growth.

    Last point; about capturing cities/castles;If your citizens have never been in that city before,exterminate at all conditions.Otherwise you have to deal with rebels meaning high costs of repair,low tax income etc.If you exterminate,you just once lose tax income and when population grows,you recover your loss.with the help of masjids,this is no problem
    Even though you know a thousand things, ask the man who knows one.

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