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Thread: The Turks

  1. #91
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Tugrul Cagri
    Mines?Forget about the mines until you reach very high population (and tax income as a result) in your cities.If you are too much insist on income (I do not advice:produce more and more military units instead)try to use masjids.They increase city tax amounts significantly due to the public order.Also merchants (since they have no upkeep costs)are very useful.Mines have constant income but you can increase your tax income with public order and population growth.

    Last point; about capturing cities/castles;If your citizens have never been in that city before,exterminate at all conditions.Otherwise you have to deal with rebels meaning high costs of repair,low tax income etc.If you exterminate,you just once lose tax income and when population grows,you recover your loss.with the help of masjids,this is no problem

    Well, thanx for the replies first of all. secondly I started a new vh/vh campaign game after I posted about the mongols because I figured out that even if I could beat the mongols there would not be enough time left enough to conquer 45 regions by then. Anyway, so I started a new campaign with Turks. I eliminated Byzantium before reaching twentieth turn. Then I eliminated Egypt right before the mongols arrived. By then I had about 30 regions. I created like three full stack armies and positioned them at the river crossings near edessa. I slaughtered all 12 mongol armies there. So now I am at turn 101 and things will be much easier after this but unfortunately I started working today so I will not have as much time to play.

    I did not find the tactics which propose using cannons for river crossing battles useful. They miss when they fire and it takes like forever to reload. Same for the catapults. I rather used like 10 Sipahis in my full stack armies for missile support. Some of my Sipahis inflicted like 70 casualties to the enemy while sustaining very few. They were also crucial for charging the enemy when my shield wall was breached. This way I Have sipahis who have silver experiences. Also I used my sultan in the battles against the mongols and now he has full command. I wonder what he will achieve against the enemies in the west.

    I know about the tactics you mentioned in the previous post. I liked playing Panzer General 2 a lot and used concentration of force for penetrating through the enemy and surely I use the train for my advantage. However I have to admit that I am not good in this game in commanding my troops for spontaneous tactics change or for some maneuver and sometimes I cannot deploy my troops the way I want to . They do not obey me some times. I don't have the patch maybe some of the problem is just because of it. Still the AI is very clumsy even in vh difficulty level and easy to beat.

    About the city management, I did not exterminate any of the cities I captured and the money I got from sacking the cities supported the terrible costs for fighting and destroying the mongols. yes they do rebel, but if you can manage them well and send many imams soon after you conquer they might not rebel and this means a lot of profits. The only city which constantly rebel is trebizond but I think that is because of me not investing enough there. Also if you exterminate christian cities the pope sends you crusades but they are fun to destroy anyways.

    I am aware that I am not there yet especially in managing my economy and all but I seem to improve. Thanx for the comments and the last thing is Sipahis are better than cannons at the river crossings unless......
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  2. #92
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mete Han

    1-I started a new vh/vh campaign game after I posted about the mongols because I figured out that even if I could beat the mongols there would not be enough time left enough to conquer 45 regions by then. Anyway, so I started a new campaign with Turks. I eliminated Byzantium before reaching twentieth turn. Then I eliminated Egypt right before the mongols arrived. By then I had about 30 regions. I created like three full stack armies and positioned them at the river crossings near edessa. I slaughtered all 12 mongol armies there. So now I am at turn 101 and things will be much easier after this but unfortunately I started working today so I will not have as much time to play.

    2-However I have to admit that I am not good in this game in commanding my troops for spontaneous tactics change or for some maneuver and sometimes I cannot deploy my troops the way I want to . They do not obey me some times. I don't have the patch maybe some of the problem is just because of it. Still the AI is very clumsy even in vh difficulty level and easy to beat.

    3-About the city management, I did not exterminate any of the cities I captured and the money I got from sacking the cities supported the terrible costs for fighting and destroying the mongols. yes they do rebel, but if you can manage them well and send many imams soon after you conquer they might not rebel and this means a lot of profits.
    1-Congratulations my friend.You have understood the fact that fast moving and cruel attacking turk faction is nearly unstoppable and nightmare for any "attacking" faction.Their units are well concentrated in defending.If you have increased valor of your units,drive your horses to heart of europe.

    2-There is no reason for your troops' disobey but your dread.Have your sultan's dread(not chivalry) stat as high as possible.This means on the battlefield,your general has higher influence on both your troops and enemy troops.Then they will start obedience and routing probability will drop significantly.

    3-How do we increase dread?Execute all prisoners after the encounter and exterminate the population of captured cities.Believe me,you have nothing to do if you are playing hard or very hard to stop rebellion if you don't exterminate them.You give up some tax at the begining but then you play more comfortably.

    about river&bridge defence encounters against mongols:send your highly armored units to the entrance of bridge as entrance guards.put your archers around the bridge and finally send your sultan just behind the entrance guarding units.influence of your general will boost defenders concentration and your archer will cut them off. do not change your position,do not catch them.if you try to walk on the bridge it will be a disaster for you.
    Even though you know a thousand things, ask the man who knows one.

  3. #93

    Default Re: The Turks

    I still prefer "my" version of bridge severe beating with coordination of janissary archers, sipahis and naffatuns. You suffer much less losses and the naffatuns give a nice show

  4. #94
    Member Member GrandInquisitor's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    been a while since i've posted anything. i'm coming back to the turks here pretty soon, after losing my first campaign with them to my own arrogance. this time i'm adjusting my strategy. but before i start, i was wondering what regions others use for castles in the middle east, from asia minor and egypt eastward. beyond that won't matter as much. last time i had caesarea, aleppo, gaza, acre, tbilisi, and yerevan as castles. would any of those do better as cities?

  5. #95
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by GrandInquisitor
    been a while since i've posted anything. i'm coming back to the turks here pretty soon, after losing my first campaign with them to my own arrogance. this time i'm adjusting my strategy. but before i start, i was wondering what regions others use for castles in the middle east, from asia minor and egypt eastward. beyond that won't matter as much. last time i had caesarea, aleppo, gaza, acre, tbilisi, and yerevan as castles. would any of those do better as cities?
    You really don't need that many castles. I only have Gaza and Caesarea as castles in the Middle East. Other regions that need castles are: Sarkel* and Sophia. Your best units come from cities. I only use castle to train Naffatun and sometimes Quapukulu (generals can also be used as heavy cavalry)

    * Sarkel is a better place to defend your North Eastern front because it defends the entire border with any opponent like Russia / Poland / Hungary.
    Tosa Inu

  6. #96
    Member Member Fadly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    when i play, i usually send some of my ranged cavalries around the enemy and gather at their rear. then i'll used the missile cavalry to spray the general unit, while at the same time, my foot archers deal with the enemy front line. if your missile cavs ran out of ammo and the general still alive, there'll be few of his bodyguard left. so charge the general unit with your missile cav. the nearby unit will come to general's aid but usually i manage to kill the general before my missile cavs took to much damage. while this is happening, use the rest of the units for full frontal assault, will luck, the frontal assault will take the attention of the rest of the enemy forces and they'll ignore their stricken general. i play as a turks fighting the byzantine, and i manage to score 4 heroic victories in just 14 turns and in two of them, i got outnumbered by the byzantine. this is contrary to what many believe (muslims army must outnumbered their opponents and took a massive casualties in order to win). you can't use lighter muslim armies to fight head on battle like the heavier european units. use them in sophisticated maneuver warfare. i use my pause button very often when i play the muslims factions, since i need to coordinate several different units scattered around the whole battlefield.

    as it is, try to keep your general out of harm's way as much as possible. do not use the general unit for combat unless you have no other choice. the general's stars are more useful then their swords and lances. keep em close to combat but don't mix up.
    Emperor Heraclius wrote the following letter to Khalid Al-Walid...

    I have come to know what you have done to my army. You have killed my son-in-law and captured my daughter. You have won and got away safely. I now ask you for my daughter. Either return her to me on payment of ransom or give her to me as a gift, for honour is a strong element in your character'.


    To which Khalid replied....


    Take her as a gift, there shall be no ransom.

  7. #97
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fadly
    when i play, i usually send some of my ranged cavalries around the enemy and gather at their rear. then i'll used the missile cavalry to spray the general unit, while at the same time, my foot archers deal with the enemy front line. if your missile cavs ran out of ammo and the general still alive, there'll be few of his bodyguard left. so charge the general unit with your missile cav. the nearby unit will come to general's aid but usually i manage to kill the general before my missile cavs took to much damage. while this is happening, use the rest of the units for full frontal assault, will luck, the frontal assault will take the attention of the rest of the enemy forces and they'll ignore their stricken general. i play as a turks fighting the byzantine, and i manage to score 4 heroic victories in just 14 turns and in two of them, i got outnumbered by the byzantine. this is contrary to what many believe (muslims army must outnumbered their opponents and took a massive casualties in order to win). you can't use lighter muslim armies to fight head on battle like the heavier european units. use them in sophisticated maneuver warfare. i use my pause button very often when i play the muslims factions, since i need to coordinate several different units scattered around the whole battlefield.

    as it is, try to keep your general out of harm's way as much as possible. do not use the general unit for combat unless you have no other choice. the general's stars are more useful then their swords and lances. keep em close to combat but don't mix up.
    Mostly agreed with your strategy accept the use of general.

    I usually take 2 general in my army:sultan and the crown prince. There are some tactical movements which consume your enemy with heavy damage inflicting units. Crown prince does these movements. Sultan is a unique attacking unit and really devastates any kind of enemy unit, some kind of joker in deck.

    When your enemy army includes light units (peasants,low rank archer,light cavalry) you are not in need of general's units. But when you join epic wars, use of general units is a must.
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  8. #98
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Finally after deciding to not to sleep for two nights I completed my vh/vh Turkish campaign in year 1384. The last two cities I captured were Rome and Venice. Looking back I must say that being aggressive and using jihads is very important all the way till the end. I used my family members almost in every war and actually made them fight and raised a few generals who have full dread and command. And yes McIwoo naffatuns work great. So be very aggressive and just kill them all...
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  9. #99
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mete Han
    Finally after deciding to not to sleep for two nights I completed my vh/vh Turkish campaign in year 1384. The last two cities I captured were Rome and Venice. Looking back I must say that being aggressive and using jihads is very important all the way till the end. I used my family members almost in every war and actually made them fight and raised a few generals who have full dread and command. And yes McIwoo naffatuns work great. So be very aggressive and just kill them all...
    done !!!

    :D
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  10. #100
    Member Member Fadly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    [QUOTE=I usually take 2 general in my army:sultan and the crown prince. There are some tactical movements which consume your enemy with heavy damage inflicting units. Crown prince does these movements. Sultan is a unique attacking unit and really devastates any kind of enemy unit, some kind of joker in deck.[/QUOTE]

    is'nt that a waste of generals? i'm not using my family members solely for combat. i kept some to govern key cities. i standardized my armies though, this many cavalries, this many infantries and this many archers. all my armies in the field have roughly the same composition. i also never initialy field a full stack army. i always leave 5 slot empty. if i need to fill it, i just hire a mercenaries. whenever i want to lay siege, i hire a cannons. whenever i fought in the high ground, i hire extra archers. whenever i face mainly cavalries enemy, i hire extra pikeman.
    Emperor Heraclius wrote the following letter to Khalid Al-Walid...

    I have come to know what you have done to my army. You have killed my son-in-law and captured my daughter. You have won and got away safely. I now ask you for my daughter. Either return her to me on payment of ransom or give her to me as a gift, for honour is a strong element in your character'.


    To which Khalid replied....


    Take her as a gift, there shall be no ransom.

  11. #101
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fadly
    is'nt that a waste of generals? i'm not using my family members solely for combat. i kept some to govern key cities. i standardized my armies though, this many cavalries, this many infantries and this many archers. all my armies in the field have roughly the same composition. i also never initialy field a full stack army. i always leave 5 slot empty. if i need to fill it, i just hire a mercenaries. whenever i want to lay siege, i hire a cannons. whenever i fought in the high ground, i hire extra archers. whenever i face mainly cavalries enemy, i hire extra pikeman.
    you are right.usage of merceneraies is extremely important for turks.

    on the other hand,for the turkish campaign,devastation of your enemy army is very important.if they flee,they come back in larger numbers.what you should do is killing your enemy (including the general) until the last guy.byzantine generals are heavily armored,so you need your generals.also dont forget:i am using just 2 generals sultan and the crown prince.other generals are on duty in cities.turkish dynasty is really fast growing and you never have problem of new generals.just have them getting experience.that is the key.
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  12. #102
    Member Member Fadly's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    now that you mention it, i've been noticing something you know. it's like this. i usually move 1 or 2 units of light cav far behind enemy formation. the reason is so that i can caught enemy general when they fleeing. the problem is, most of the time, whenever i ordered the cav to attack the fleeing general, they charge the general, but then they just ran along with the enemy general with no attempt to attack him. do you have this problem?
    Emperor Heraclius wrote the following letter to Khalid Al-Walid...

    I have come to know what you have done to my army. You have killed my son-in-law and captured my daughter. You have won and got away safely. I now ask you for my daughter. Either return her to me on payment of ransom or give her to me as a gift, for honour is a strong element in your character'.


    To which Khalid replied....


    Take her as a gift, there shall be no ransom.

  13. #103
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fadly
    now that you mention it, i've been noticing something you know. it's like this. i usually move 1 or 2 units of light cav far behind enemy formation. the reason is so that i can caught enemy general when they fleeing. the problem is, most of the time, whenever i ordered the cav to attack the fleeing general, they charge the general, but then they just ran along with the enemy general with no attempt to attack him. do you have this problem?
    You should pin the generals down by attacking from multiple directions and you should attack with a lot of units in order to kill enemy generals because really good ones have like 8 hit points (brutally scarred trait). anyways in the end of the battles attack with your sipahis too. even though some get killed they gain very valuable experience and this is the most important thing. also be elastic with your armies. don't keep producing the same army. in some occasions you will not need any infantry in some horse archers will be useless (like sieging towns).

    if your generals fight and win battles and release the captured enemies their chivalry traits go up and this is very good for governing the cities, though I always go for dread. You need many high dread and command generals in order to destroy mongols and timurids.

    just kill them...
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  14. #104
    Slaying Pagans near you! Member TeutonicKnight's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Ok, having worked my way around the Mediteranean, I'm ready to try my hand at the Turks. I've just got a few questions.

    Reviewing their units, I don't understand how Halberd Militia are good against cavalry. They are axe units, aren't they? Do they have anti-cav capability? If not, what is the next unit after Saracen Infantry to use as a spearwall - Dismounted Sipahi Lancers? Jannisary Heavy Infantry are axemen as well, and I read that you need to keep them away from cav.

    Jannisary Archers can lay stakes. That's very, very nice. Many of you cite using the stakes at a bridge or river to blunt the Mongol charge. In my experience with England, stakes cannot be laid over the road, leaving a nasty gap in the defensive fortification. Is there a trick to this, or do you lay the stakes anyway and fortify the gap as best you can?

    I don't see Aqubusiers on the Turk list. Do they go straight to Musketeers? Are Handgunners a viable replacement for the Arqubusiers until Musketeers are available, or are they just a stopgap measure?

    Do you even bother trying to get to the New World with the Turks?

    And finally, what the heck is an Azab? He looks about as useless as a peasant unit.
    Last edited by TeutonicKnight; 07-03-2007 at 18:42.

  15. #105
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
    Ok, having worked my way around the Mediteranean, I'm ready to try my hand at the Turks. I've just got a few questions.

    Reviewing their units, I don't understand how Halberd Militia are good against cavalry. They are axe units, aren't they? Do they have anti-cav capability? If not, what is the next unit after Saracen Infantry to use as a spearwall - Dismounted Sipahi Lancers? Jannisary Heavy Infantry are axemen as well, and I read that you need to keep them away from cav.

    Jannisary Archers can lay stakes. That's very, very nice. Many of you cite using the stakes at a bridge or river to blunt the Mongol charge. In my experience with England, stakes cannot be laid over the road, leaving a nasty gap in the defensive fortification. Is there a trick to this, or do you lay the stakes anyway and fortify the gap as best you can?

    I don't see Aqubusiers on the Turk list. Do they go straight to Musketeers? Are Handgunners a viable replacement for the Arqubusiers until Musketeers are available, or are they just a stopgap measure?

    Do you even bother trying to get to the New World with the Turks?

    And finally, what the heck is an Azab? He looks about as useless as a peasant unit.
    For anti-cav infantry you can use both Saracen Militia or dism. Sipahi.
    JHI are your hack and chop machines. Very good in mêlée. Halberd militia are cheap weaker JHIs and do not have an anti cav bonus.

    Stakes can be laid in cities (playing with England you should know that). They can't be laid on paved roads but you can lay them very next to the road. Where the gap is lay two rows of stakes parallel to the road both facing the road. Every thing galloping through the gap will be shiss kebab.

    The Turks have the best gunpowder infantry unit in the game: Janissary Musketeers. You will love them.

    I have never been to the new world but I will do it in my current campaign.

    Azabs are the best strongest crap in the game. They have an anti cav bonus of 4 but I think they will faint whenever they are even thinking of fighting.
    Last edited by Monsieur Alphonse; 07-03-2007 at 21:28.
    Tosa Inu

  16. #106

    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by TeutonicKnight
    Ok, having worked my way around the Mediteranean, I'm ready to try my hand at the Turks. I've just got a few questions.

    Reviewing their units, I don't understand how Halberd Militia are good against cavalry. They are axe units, aren't they? Do they have anti-cav capability? If not, what is the next unit after Saracen Infantry to use as a spearwall - Dismounted Sipahi Lancers? Jannisary Heavy Infantry are axemen as well, and I read that you need to keep them away from cav.

    Jannisary Archers can lay stakes. That's very, very nice. Many of you cite using the stakes at a bridge or river to blunt the Mongol charge. In my experience with England, stakes cannot be laid over the road, leaving a nasty gap in the defensive fortification. Is there a trick to this, or do you lay the stakes anyway and fortify the gap as best you can?

    I don't see Aqubusiers on the Turk list. Do they go straight to Musketeers? Are Handgunners a viable replacement for the Arqubusiers until Musketeers are available, or are they just a stopgap measure?

    Do you even bother trying to get to the New World with the Turks?

    And finally, what the heck is an Azab? He looks about as useless as a peasant unit.
    First off, Azabs are CRAP....they should have never made it into the game with stats like that. Best use is pure cannon fodder troops, or when you have no other choice when defending the walls...hell even then i might take peasants.

    Musketeers are fantastic...compared to handguns it's no contest, musketeers have the longest range in the game, and janissary musketeers have the highest missile attack damage for an infantry in the game...hands down the musket rules.

    Halberds are not technically anti-cav but have the armor piercing trait and well as we know many knights are heavily armored ;) And they do get a +4 spear bonus.

    The Dismounted Sipahi lancers get a +8 spear bonus vs cav.

  17. #107
    Member Member Tugrul Cagri's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBUA
    First off, Azabs are CRAP....they should have never made it into the game with stats like that. Best use is pure cannon fodder troops, or when you have no other choice when defending the walls...hell even then i might take peasants.

    Musketeers are fantastic...compared to handguns it's no contest, musketeers have the longest range in the game, and janissary musketeers have the highest missile attack damage for an infantry in the game...hands down the musket rules.

    Halberds are not technically anti-cav but have the armor piercing trait and well as we know many knights are heavily armored ;) And they do get a +4 spear bonus.

    The Dismounted Sipahi lancers get a +8 spear bonus vs cav.
    worthy information on faction's units.thanks a lot
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  18. #108
    Member Member GrandInquisitor's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by DeathBUA
    Musketeers are fantastic...compared to handguns it's no contest, musketeers have the longest range in the game, and janissary musketeers have the highest missile attack damage for an infantry in the game...hands down the musket rules.
    Actually, I use Handgunners in limited quantities as support for spears. In essence, they can be thought of as Roman legionaries after a fashion. Short range missile weapon that causes fear, followed up by melee. Doubling as a Muslim sword unit of sorts can be wonderful against spear-heavy armies, especially if you don't have the Janissaries you want/need. And in my experience, Handgunners actually perform better in melee. Can't recall stats at the moment, though.

    I agree that Musketeers are by far the better ranged unit, but Handgunners can be effective troops.
    Last edited by GrandInquisitor; 07-05-2007 at 07:56.

  19. #109
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    I tried to play with HRE and Spain (vh/vh) but I could not continue because of boredom. In both I was the first in all areas but compared to playing with Turks everything is so simple... So now I continue to play my completed Turkish campaign for total domination. And in the late eras it gets even better... but still the sipahis are a handful. very useful those lads in a tight spot... however I would like to hear some strategical combination of late era units.
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  20. #110
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    I am in my late game and have currently 70 regions. Only Western Europe is not green at the moment. I have two kind of armies:
    1. All HA army; half Sipahis and half Turkomens.I have two of these and they still beat every enemy army. Most victories are heroic ones.
    2. Late army:
    1 General
    4 Jan musketeers
    6 Jan archers
    5 JHI
    2 Quapakulu
    2 Cannons
    Sometimes I add one naffatun.
    With my late armies I have a lot of fun. The disadvantage of this kind of army is the retraining takes time because I have to travel back to my main training area.

    I have several older armies still around (dism Sipahi lancers and ottoman infantry/ sometimes some mercs) but I consider them not my main attacking armies.

    I have one fun army; 1 General, 11 Quapakulus, 8 HAs. The Quapakulus are mostly very experienced because of all the charging. One unit killed 305 and captured 274 enemies (huge units).

    I am now planning my last assault on Western Europe and waiting for the plague and then the timurids.
    Tosa Inu

  21. #111
    Member Member Mete Han's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    I have one fun army; 1 General, 11 Quapakulus, 8 HAs. The Quapakulus are mostly very experienced because of all the charging. One unit killed 305 and captured 274 enemies (huge units).


    Cool!!! how did they manage that. The highest casualty inflicted I ever saw was by a naffatun I used in a river crossing.... Qapukulus are great aren't they
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  22. #112
    kwait nait Member Monsieur Alphonse's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mete Han
    I have one fun army; 1 General, 11 Quapakulus, 8 HAs. The Quapakulus are mostly very experienced because of all the charging. One unit killed 305 and captured 274 enemies (huge units).


    Cool!!! how did they manage that. The highest casualty inflicted I ever saw was by a naffatun I used in a river crossing.... Qapukulus are great aren't they
    Quapakulus are very good mêlée cavalry. After a charge you can let them continue to fight for a while. All my cavalry units start at four experience because I have the horsbreeders guild headquarters and two master swordsmen guilds. That unit sustained 62 casualties after repeated charges and gained two experience. That army destroyed three depleted stacks completely.

    I have to defend my reputation as a cavalry commander

    PS. I had the same experience with naffatun at a river. They killed 319 enemies.
    Tosa Inu

  23. #113

    Default Re: The Turks

    I'm playing h/h and I've decided for an aggressive campaign.
    So at start I've declared war to Byz and sent the Sultan towards costantinopolis. Meanwhile I've sent the other armies to garrison Baghdad, Antioch and tbilis (??), obviosly leaving no army in my settlements.

    My sultan joined the crusade and rented some ghazis and after 1 turn took the byz capital, killing their prince. In the same turn, since their king was nearby, I sent my sultan and 1 unit of Sipahis to kill him, BYZ EMPIRE ENDED !!!
    Now, after 5 turns, I'm the richest in the world...with the greatest empire.

    There are rebels everywhere and egypt south with which I couldn't ally....
    I'm very scarce at diplomacy

    Btw, I'll let you know the rest...

  24. #114

    Default Re: The Turks

    OK I've finished the long campaign right now.
    Basically I've defeated the egyptian everywhere leaving them only the two rebel cities Dongola and Jedda. From there on they didn't attack anymore.

    So after taking all Asia Minor and Egypt, I went against the Hungarians killing them all.

    Meanwhile I attack Venetians at Corynth, Iraklion, Durazzo and Venice.
    After killing all the Venetians I attacked Milan and Palermo and Naples.

    When the mongols came they landed by Bulgar (??) and kept on attacking the russians until I finally faced them at Iasi.
    I used 2 full stacks at the bridges and struggled a lot to kill half of them.
    They finally renounced to attack me and went to destroy the russians.

    I finally attack the rest of itay, Cagliari and Ajaccio and Rome and last was Florence.

    Cavalry Units

    You gotta use lots of Sipahis (good for melee as well, but poor stamina) and Turkomans (good when you need a lot of speed and stamina but no melee)
    What I found to be lacking versus heavy inf is the lack of missile armour piercing units like Javelin men (Jannissary Musketeers are from late period). So don't expect to decimate heavy inf only with arrows.

    Quakupulus are excellent cavalry but very expensive and from late period.

    Infantry Units

    As for infantry I found very consistent saracen spearmen and dism Sipahis
    Don't trust em too much though when facing the mongols charging
    Better to back them up with Sipahis (Quakupulu) charging as well.

    If you need good AP units then go for JHI but they are expensive.

    Naffatuns are also very good AP units, use them to rout the enemies when it is pinned down engaging your spearmens.

    Also I advice you to get javelin Afghan mercs, they very good and have good morale.

    Finally if you really need an unit able to disband any heavy infantry then go for hashashins.

    Hope it helps.

  25. #115

    Default Re: The Turks

    Hi everybody,

    I am currently playing my first Turkish campaign on H/VH. Turn 69, arrival of Mongols.

    I think any experienced player puts the AI at a disadvantage, and swift initial strikes on AI controlled settlements prematurely cripples the fun out of the game, as it did in all previous TW games. In my opinion, it is not just winning, but having fun doing so. Let's say it is nicer to get some challenge out of it.

    OK, so I do only attack neighbouring rebel settlements. I take Baghdad soon enough thanks to a Jihad, so I get some gazhis for my walls at a very discounted price. In the Holly land, I get only as far as Antioch, because the Eggys beat me to Jerusalem and Damascus since I do not bypass any rebel town (that would not make sense in any real campaign, would it?). My earthly throne is for Alan's greatness, and I would not like to initiate a war with my faith brothers. It will be the infidels suffering my army's wrath. We share trade rights, but no alliance. Let's see how long it takes them to back stab me.

    My first war is against Byzantium when they come on knocking on my capital. My all cavalry army fairs pretty well and after some pitched battles they loss Trezibond and Nicacea (spelling?). It took a while until I was in shape to take Constantinople and the settlement south of Nicacea (don't remember the name) because Poland, Denmark and Venice launched a little (3 full stacks) Crusade against Antioch in a couple of turns. Cyprus and Rhodes are Turkish cities producing good trade and naval units.

    Actually, I have found it very irritating (= nice challenge) defending against Crusades. They have a very large movement and do not bait at my intercepting army, they just bypass it and go on. Since they have such a large movement, I cannot block bridge access, because they take the detour and attack the city from another direction. So I am finally forced to fight them with my garrison and field army when they assault Antioch.

    Anyway, holding Constantinople is proving challenging as Hungary, Poland, Venice, Sicily and Byzantium seem to be in a race to get it back for Christianity. As retaliation, Turk armies have conquered the citadel of Sofia through a Holly Jihad, so now I can retrain my battered armies. My navy is mainly out of the picture. After some initial victories, I tried to shield Constantinople from blockades with my naval force. Well, it seems that Byz. did not like that, and in a one turn relentless attack they sunk by best commander (3 or 4 stars) and his 7 ships with 5 consecutive attacks. No survivors.

    As mentioned, the mongols just arrived (turn 69) south of Baghdad. As far as I can see only two full stacks. Since it is a well developed city and can produce decent units, I don't think it should be difficult to defeat them in the river crossing on the south.

    Even though I like to turtle and develop my economy, including farms, instead of rapid expansion, my cities do no grow very much and I am very far from getting to Janissary archers. So, I cannot see how all this people that expand so fast get to use these advanced unit before beating the game.

    Anyway, the turtle game is the way to go.

  26. #116

    Default Re: The Turks

    Turks are a fantastic faction I'd suggest this faction is best left until you are nearly through with the game because the faction has great diversity and numerous strengths throughout the ages.

    Early armies consist of fairly cheap Sipahis and Turkomans which both utterly rock and are valid until the end of the game! Surround and demolish something every turn with a nice fast army rack up lots of silver chevrons very quickly.

    Ottoman infantry , Heavy Janniseries , Naffatun, Hashahim, Dis Sipahis & Saracen Militias utterly rock mid game defence and wall taking.

    Simply try a bridge battle v mongols with large numbers of Dis. Sipahis, Hashahim, Naffatun, Ottomans and Heavy Janniseries!

    In every garrisonned area under threat place 1 or 2 Naffatun and a few ottomans and some Saracen Militias. You can really punish the enemy as he rushes into your gates. Naffatun kill more units in defence than just about any missle infantry unit in this game if you can force your enemies to concentrate in one spot.

    Even standard hill defences where you encourage the enemy to attack your missle heavy force are great.

    Late game brings in Qakapuluku ( mace wielding super cavalry demo them v templars and see what they can do) and Jannisery muskets( these guys draw swords if the enemy gets close.

    The units I consider to be poor are:

    The javelins, the azabs.

    I also don't hugely rate the Jannisery infantry. I personally only used the stakes to any good affect about 4 times. Focus constantinople on a trade build ( it pwns!) and use it to tag JHI with the high level courthouse. They have loads of firepower + the stakes but I favour the sheilded Ottoman. + The Ottoman has double duty as a medium infantry unit + I rarely used sipahi lancers. Early on I massed generals as my heavy cav.

    I would suggest a headlong rush versus Constantinople using the jiohad express initially take the byzantines quickly and then the egyptians. Keep strong replenishable stacks of sipahis roving the countryside around early on. Tag stacks near settlements and win the odd settlement too. These guys are the killer unit their accessability, cost, speed and power means nothing really early game can stand against them. The better units (Dvor/Vard) either appear too late or cost too much and can be overwhelmed by the larger numbers of sipahis. Be careful tho. Sipahis only achillies heel is slight lack of stamina. Walk them!

    Eventually you'll be replenishing the sipahis everywhere in your empire since the merchants guild, all stone castles, and second tier race tracks will build em. I'd suggest reducing the castle count to 1 in the early stages of the game since you'll be pickign up more very soon.
    Last edited by Nepereta; 12-04-2007 at 00:05.

  27. #117

    Default Re: The Turks

    This is by far the most entertaining campaign I've ever played in M2, the Turks are also one of my favorite factions. I started by conquering rebel territories to the northeast and attacked the Byzantines once I was prepared for a war against them. I managed to kick them back to Constantinople and later on declared a Jihad on the city, whom Egyptians participated in. It was an easy one, the fun part ends here.

  28. #118
    The Sword from Anatolia Member Seyfullah's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Turks

    Quote Originally Posted by Mete Han
    I have one fun army; 1 General, 11 Quapakulus, 8 HAs. The Quapakulus are mostly very experienced because of all the charging. One unit killed 305 and captured 274 enemies (huge units).


    Cool!!! how did they manage that. The highest casualty inflicted I ever saw was by a naffatun I used in a river crossing.... Qapukulus are great aren't they
    I think this does not even come close to what I experienced somewhere between Sophia and Constantinople:
    Battle diff=hard, early era, unit size=normal
    Turks: 35 Gen's Bodyguards, 4-star gen. (crown prince)
    Byzantines: 539 with various unit types, not too strong, army ratio was 1:1

    The battle was a suicide mission due to the auto heir chooser but the outcome was very surprising in the end I was almost regretful of my choice. I don't remember the other stats of the gen. but he wasn't weak at all. I will post some pics later on for proof.

    The enemy were situated on the opposing hill having a not too steep height advantage. The bodyguard unit charged straight into the middle(as i said it was suicide) with the widest formation and the enemy was flying. The gen's unit started with 1 bronze chevron and toward the end went up all the way to 3 gold chevrons. In the end though my single unit army was annihilated-they did have 1 spear unit- but took out 419 of the enemy. The gen himself was the last survivor killing a whole bunch of people. I wish i could try my gens on heavier armies. Even though the enemy was weak their numbers should have counted for something imo. Anyways this reminded me of jedi gens from the previous game.
    "For I wish my torch was not with me
    because of its light I can now see
    what is around me and tremble"


    -from a poem I wrote

  29. #119

    Default Re: The Turks

    I'm having trouble seeing the strength of Turks... their HA are outmatched by Russian and Byzantine counterparts, but are cheaper, so I guess price is better. Every other faction has better infantry, and Turks have only two unit of heavy cav that is good but isn't superb... With Egypt you at least get more melee cav, and mamluk archers for the HA department which are very good.

    Their infantry, except for the OK JHI, are terrible compared to everyone else, their HA are outdone by two neighboring factions, and matched by every other faction, and they lack heavy cav support. They seem to be worse than Scotland...

  30. #120

    Default Re: The Turks

    That's strange because I didn't really see many weaknesses of the turks. They have decent HA, they have great JHI, the best musketeers, naffatun, a gun that can take down a wall in one hit. The only real weaknesses I noticed were lack of good field artillery and an Eastern Starting position which causes them to be attacked by mongols and timurids and also to be far from America.

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