The Turks

[Iavorios]

As i sad before, the turks are very, very powerful. The combination of sipahis, saracen militia and JHI is unbeatable, recwaires only large city and after 40-50 turns can be build anywhere. Combine that whith exelent starting position, jihads, no pope and hospitals (bimaris or something like that) and horse races. Ottoman infantry is a very good unit to. As for the mongols, for 60-70 turns it is not a problem to have more than 35 provinces even on VH/VH, producing huge army's of spearmen and JHI. It is not a problem to kill them only in sieges, i mean 12 saracen militia and 7 JHI cam kill about 3 full stacks of mongols if they are in a large city. If after 130 turns when the Timurids come,you dont have more than 60 regions, well this is your problem, or choice. The only problem is that early on you have to use a lot of troops, but whith Quapaclu and naftafum later on this is solved.

[Hoplite7]

That's strange because I didn't really see many weaknesses of the turks. They have decent HA, they have great JHI, the best musketeers, naffatun, a gun that can take down a wall in one hit. The only real weaknesses I noticed were lack of good field artillery and an Eastern Starting position which causes them to be attacked by mongols and timurids and also to be far from America.

Aren't JHI 2 hander units? I thought 2 hand units were broken in M2TW because of their animations not doing any damage. (Or doing only average damage for their price and era. For instance, Varangian guard, built in huge cities, can beat Dism norman knights, but only after taking heavy casualties)

I'm going to try them out now in custom battle against Venice... maybe the stats on the unit cards can be deceiving.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

Aren't JHI 2 hander units? I thought 2 hand units were broken in M2TW because of their animations not doing any damage. (Or doing only average damage for their price and era. For instance, Varangian guard, built in huge cities, can beat Dism norman knights, but only after taking heavy casualties)

I'm going to try them out now in custom battle against Venice... maybe the stats on the unit cards can be deceiving.

JHI are 2-handers but use a different faster animation. This makes them very strong units.

[mbrasher1]

The Turks are alot of fun. Many of their early units (Sipahi, Turkomans, Saracen inf) retain their value quite late into the game.

I am curious, though. In the early period, the Turks have super weak melee units. From castles, the peasant, followed by the Azab, are both useless. The spear militia is about the best that can be used to assault walls. What do you use to make assaults with? Ghazis?

[Iavorios]

[ What do you use to make assaults with? Ghazis?[/QUOTE]

JHI and ottoman infantry. Quite good actually.

[Mete Han]

I'm having trouble seeing the strength of Turks... their HA are outmatched by Russian and Byzantine counterparts, but are cheaper, so I guess price is better. Every other faction has better infantry, and Turks have only two unit of heavy cav that is good but isn't superb... With Egypt you at least get more melee cav, and mamluk archers for the HA department which are very good.

Their infantry, except for the OK JHI, are terrible compared to everyone else, their HA are outdone by two neighboring factions, and matched by every other faction, and they lack heavy cav support. They seem to be worse than Scotland...

Dude did you ever compare the upkeep you pay for the sipahis with other heavy horse archers. For sipahis you pay 175 florins per turn and you can buy them from the start since they are early era units. for hungarian nobles you pay 210 florins, for mamluk archers you pay 210, for vardartorai you pay 250 florins and for dvor cavalry you have pay 250 florins too. Plus vardartorai and dvor are high era units which means that you have to invest a lot before producing them. Their per units costs are substantially higher than sipahis except for hung. nobles. Mamluk archers extually cost 900 florins wihch is way too expensive for a ha. Upkeeping 20 vardartorai for ten turns costs 15000 florins more than upkeeping 20 sipahis for 10 turns and thats a lot of difference. And if you are relying on mass ha the difference of cost will be much higher. Also you can produce sipahis from both cities and castles which makes the Turks the true ha faction of the game.

On the other hand Turkish troops are mostly offensive troops who usually dont wear much armour and that is a disadvantage when defending castles and cities but if you are defending with Turks in this game you are doing something terribly wrong. You should fight your battles with mass sipahis on the field.

Do not judge JHI with the stats. The animation (somehow) makes it superior than what its stats show but of course you cannot leave them to take a heavy cavalry charge.

If you can really command ha than you must agree that turks are very strong but if you prefer infantry yes Turks might nor be the best choice but then you don't rate scotland neither who have great infantry.
Are you a little bit confused?

And also can you please tell me how Poland, Moors and Italian states except for Venetians have better infantry?

[Robespierre]

Turk infantry beat anything the Byzantines have with ease, for the basileus has only poor spears and a very limited supply of better swordsmen, whereas Turk spear formations are available from both castle and city. The only foot units that have parity are the very similar Ottoman infantry/Byzantine guard archers. dismounted sipahi lancers and JHI are the very ace of spades.

in cavalry, the Turk gets plentiful Sipahi lancers fairly quick. vardiarotoi may be the best unit but they are also few and pricey, whereas Turkomans and Sipahis are many and cheap.

it seems easy so far, you just grow for a while then march direct to Constantinople.....Once there, keep moving. The question now is, how many catholic cities can i sack before the pope calls a crusade on me? also the mongols have come. there are....many of them, and i reckon the best move is just to stay out of their way, as there is no army in the east nearly big enough to confront them. therefore i have decided that the elderly and dread Sultan, resident at Antioch, is gonna take a chance and turn on our erstwhile allies the Egyptians, mainly for the cash again. at this stage in the game its all about momentum.

okay, after it completely trashed a good turkish stack the horde has settled down in Antioch, being whittled down by catholic crusaders. but hold on, anther 4 stacks?
filleting the Egyptians and Poles yields enough to balnce the books. the last sultan passed away peacefully, in Cairo

[Fadly]

The question now is, how many catholic cities can i sack before the pope calls a crusade on me?

I've crossed the mediteranean and invaded Spain. i've recaptured Granada and Cordoba to the aid of the failing Moor (i've captured the cities and give it back to the Moor in the Spirit of "Islamic Brotherhood"). a few turns later, the pope declared a crusade on Constantinople. once you have a bad blood with any catholic factions, expect a crusade even if you don't have a toehold on any of their cities.

it seems whenever the horde appear, they'll ignore any settlements in their way and zero in on Antioch. currently, i'm holding the bridge near Aleppo and already defeated all the mongolian armies that attempted to crossed it. but then, a second group appeared near Yarevan. my question is, will the horde continously appeared until they take Antioch, or is there a limit to it?

[RollingWave]

I thought it was 3 waves.

but after that Temerlane isn't too far away

[Fadly]

JHI is awesome!! one of the best Heavy infantry in the game. probably even better then the Dismounted Gothic knight. i got JHI from Constantinople and Iconium about 6 or 7 turn before the Mongol invasion.

[Monsieur Alphonse]

That is rather late. I always try to get them asap. Constantinople is a minor city when you capture it. This means that once you have build a city hall (tier 3) you can train them. Try to capture or build a swordsmith guild. giving them a weapons upgrade will make the awesome.

[leonardo]

i have played as the turks three times and every time the mongols invade they head north then end up in kiev!!! whats up i wanna repulse the mongols myself

[Sultan II. Mehmed Han]

İngilizce bilmiyosam Türkçe konuşurum...

Timur Bey [Turk] Moğol [Turk-China-Tatar] Osmanlı (ottoman- Turk)

moğollar barbar değillerdir. Sadece ülkelerine bağlıdır avrupalılar biraz daha ülkelerine bağlı değildir. Türkler güçlüdür. Yabancılarda duyuyorum herkese barbar diyorlar, onun için kimseye barbar demeyiniz ha dediniz demiyorum ben bende barbar sanıyodum ama biraz araştırma yaptım değillermiş

[Sultan II. Mehmed Han]

bunu bilmeyen yok Kİ koçum

[Gray Beard]

The discussion above about how to use the rapacious Turks is why a smart Byzantine Emperor will go after them from turn one; even when playing against the computer! (Actually it takes until about turn 12 before you attack but you know what I mean) The only disadvantage that the Turks have is geography to beat them you have to capture Nicaea and Iconium and the barbarian held Trebizond.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Having a go with the Turks.

Quite fun, but I was annoyed at having to focus so much energy on eradicating the Eggies. I was quite willing to let them have Damascus, Acre Jerusalem and Jedda, but they insisted that they must have Antioch as well.

So, instead of semi-coordinated efforts to beat the 1st Crusade while I finished hammering Byzantium out of Asia, I had to put most of my Byzantine efforts on hold to hammer Egypt flat.

Then, having finally hammered them down and pushed Byz away, I had about 1 turn before I started absorbing Mongol horde attacks. For some reason, Antioch acts like a magnet to their innummerable filings......

I'm almost done slaying the Horde, but Ye Gods it takes a long while. I have done NOTHING of significance anywhere else while this endless bloodbath continues. From the look of things, I'll just about be finished when Tamur arrives....lather, rinse, repeat. When does this viscious cycle end?

[Adrian II]

The Turks are alot of fun.

Aye.

't Is true that in the beginning your Turks are dirt poor.
However, a smart Sultan has ways and means of overcoming penury.

1. Ransom
   Your starting army is more than adequate to beat the Byzantines, who are rich and who will come more or less straight at you. The Emperor's first attack will be with a spear army. Use you mobile missile troops to wear them down, let your Family Members cut them to pieces, then let the horse archers wrap up those pieces. Collect a handsome ransom and then some (yes, I'm a poet). Rinse and repeat until you have taken Nicaea.
2. Trade
   Your starting merchants have decent finance traits. Send them to Antoich and Aleppo to sample the wares. Together they will rake in 250-500 florins in a good year, as well as build up better traits over time. This is important. Merchants should operate in droves, like a 'trade army', with a mercantile genius in the middle and preferably with an assassin around, in order to protect the weaker merchants. By turn 70 they will be making 2000 a year as well as denying income to other factions, which is equally important.
3. Obedience
   Carry out the Council's assignments; this will bring in 500-2000 florins.

As for the steppe peoples, they can be beaten in two ways.

1. In the open field
   Always pick the high ground for a fight, always use spears, poles, and halberds, backed up by tons of arrows and some heavy cavalry.
   
2. Let them lay siege, then counterattack
   I have developed a tactic for 'city warfare' which I may explain in detail at some later stage. The point being that you draw the Mongols to your walls or onto the spears inside your walls, and then slaughter them with arrows and siege artillery. In this way their unique mobility counts for nothing, whereas your cheap and easily replaced spears are employed to maximum effect.

But then I love sieges.

In my French campaign (Hard mode) I took a Mongol stronghold of 800 with an army of 600, and I lost only 45 men. Those culverins are a thing of beauty.. *


İyi Şanslar!

* If you give them time, that is. The trick is to set no limit on battle time. Make sure you have culverins (or other siege guns) ready as reinforcements by the time your first batch is out of ammo. Look for the right spots and angles when you place your guns within walls, either your own or those of the enemy. Some castles (like Acre, where said siege 'miracle' took place) have huge open spaces within the outer ring from which to fire at enemy cannon towers, gates and the like.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Turks are great.

Aye.

't Is true that in the beginning your Turks are dirt poor.
However, a smart Sultan has ways and means of overcoming penury.

1. Ransom
   Your starting army is more than adequate to beat the Byzantines, who are rich and who will come more or less straight at you. The Emperor's first attack will be with a spear army. Use you mobile missile troops to wear them down, let your Family Members cut them to pieces, then let the horse archers wrap up those pieces. Collect a handsome ransom and then some (yes, I'm a poet). Rinse and repeat until you have taken Nicaea.
2. Trade
   Your starting merchants have decent finance traits. Send them to Antoich and Aleppo to sample the wares. Together they will rake in 250-500 florins in a good year, as well as build up better traits over time. This is important. Merchants should operate in droves, like a 'trade army', with a mercantile genius in the middle and preferably with an assassin around, in order to protect the weaker merchants. By turn 70 they will be making 2000 a year as well as denying income to other factions, which is equally important.
3. Obedience
   Carry out the Council's assignments; this will bring in 500-2000 florins.

As for the steppe peoples, they can be beaten in two ways.

1. In the open field
   Always pick the high ground for a fight, always use spears, poles, and halberds, backed up by tons of arrows and some heavy cavalry.
   
2. Let them lay siege, then counterattack
   I have developed a tactic for 'city warfare' which I may explain in detail at some later stage. The point being that you draw the Mongols to your walls or onto the spears inside your walls, and then slaughter them with arrows and siege artillery. In this way their unique mobility counts for nothing, whereas your cheap and easily replaced spears are employed to maximum effect.

But then I love sieges.

In my French campaign (Hard mode) I took a Mongol stronghold of 800 with an army of 600, and I lost only 45 men. Those culverins are a thing of beauty.. *


İyi Şanslar!

* If you give them time, that is. The trick is to set no limit on battle time. Make sure you have culverins (or other siege guns) ready as reinforcements by the time your first batch is out of ammo. Look for the right spots and angles when you place your guns within walls, either your own or those of the enemy. Some castles (like Acre, where said siege 'miracle' took place) have huge open spaces within the outer ring from which to fire at enemy cannon towers, gates and the like.

Hello and welcome to the boards!

I must say, what a great post! Well written, thoughtful, witty.

Say, you ought to consider posting in the Backroom. We have a lot of interesting debates going on all the time, and they could benefit greatly from your input. Going out on a limb here, but you strike me as the kind of person who would love the odd political debate. Give it a try sometime!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Turks are great.

Hello and welcome to the boards!

I must say, what a great post! Well written, thoughtful, witty.

Say, you ought to consider posting in the Backroom. We have a lot of interesting debates going on all the time, and they could benefit greatly from your input. Going out on a limb here, but you strike me as the kind of person who would love the odd political debate. Give it a try sometime!

I'm just going to love waiting Adrian to drop the other shoe on you Louis-louis!

[Iavorios]

Playing with Turks is no brainer, even on VH/VH. Jihad for Jerusalem and to Constantinople. Then kill and pilage whatever you want. Basicly, the AI is so stupid that he can't stop army of saracen infantry and sipahis. In fakt the AI cant ston any horse archers army. And if you put in some janisarys, well the poor guy has no chace. I really didn't need the heavy cav, or the exelent janisary archers, musketmen and so on. But i do use sametimes otoman infantri and dismounted sipahi lansers.
Only the mongols are a bit of a chalenge. There is to way to play the turks - jihad blitz or slower version of the same with no jihads. Ny way once you kill of Bizantium and Egypt it is over.

[Adrian II]

Turks are teH bomB!

I am glad you agree.

Teheh, the best way to make money for Turks is by betting on the camel races in Mosul. Camel races are kewl!

Dear Louis,

a Turkish gentleman of the period wouldn't be found dead near Mosul's camel track. For him the place to be seen and heard (and of course talked about) would be the horse races in Antioch.

But it is nice to see a new member who is so enthusiastic about the game. How old are you?

[Mete Han]

Aye.

Your starting merchants have decent finance traits. Send them to Antoich and Aleppo to sample the wares. Together they will rake in 250-500 florins in a good year, as well as build up better traits over time. This is important. Merchants should operate in droves, like a 'trade army', with a mercantile genius in the middle and preferably with an assassin around, in order to protect the weaker merchants. By turn 70 they will be making 2000 a year as well as denying income to other factions, which is equally important.[*]Obedience
Carry out the Council's assignments; this will bring in 500-2000 florins.[/list]

.

Dude you don't get a merchant at the beginning of the game with Turks. You must be playing a different with a different patch, I suppose?

When you get jan-archers mongols cannot bother you anymore. I think playing with most of the european factions is much more difficult because of their location and his holiness. But with Turks you must blitz in the beginning or financial problems will make things harder.

[Adrian II]

Dude you don't get a merchant at the beginning of the game with Turks.

I am not a dude, Your Highness, I am a TW player since 1999.

You can make a merchant in Iconium as of turn 1. And your initial merchants are not crap like your French starting merchants. In my three Turkish campaigns the first three or four merchants were all +2 or +3 and all had the 'legal nous' trait. Sent to Aleppo and Antioch, they make a handsome 400-500 florins every turn and deny same to Egypt. Add some more merchants, send the best on to Bagdad, and around turn 60 you will have a mercantile force that rakes in a thousand or more. Toward endgame merchants can make 6000-10.000 florins if you manage them well (this obviously includes the Timbuktu trade paradise). For obvious reasons the addition of a good assassin is of the essence.

[Mete Han]

I am a TW player since 1999.

.

You do not have to say that in order to be taken seriously (just believe in yourself), I thought you had a different patch. I would like to play with different patches, that's why I asked.

I know merchants are great. but why bother with merchants when you can destroy both Byzantium and Egypt in 30 turns. I get merchants after I destroy Byzantium. I mean it's just me, I cannot think about anything else when I am playing with Turks other than war.

[Adrian II]

I know merchants are great. but why bother with merchants when you can destroy both Byzantium and Egypt in 30 turns. I get merchants after I destroy Byzantium. I mean it's just me, I cannot think about anything else when I am playing with Turks other than war.

When you play the Turks you hardly get a chance to think of anything else.

I was answering other peoples' posts about penury, hence my emphasis on ways to make money at the early stage of a Turkish campaign. Besides, merchants are part of the game.

In fact trade is a parallel game, to be enjoyed in and of itself if you are so inclined - which I am. The parallel 'trade game' is hinted at in the beginning of many campaigns. As the Turks for instance, the Council advises you to block Nicosia for three turns. That's because marble from Nicosia is the Byzantines' most valuable export article.

Blitzing can be fun, sure. Even so, merchants assisted by assassins and naval blockades can make the difference between a successful blitz and a lame one, between being able to take that extra city or being forced to stop.

The same applies to the parallel 'religion game' of priests, imams and heretics, again supported by assassins. I love the sight of enemy troops and priests gathered in one city in order to contain a dangerous heretic which I 'created' with my imams (by lowering his 'Catholic' percentage) and leaving his other cities open to 'unrest' created by my spies. Sadly, it's only about once in every campaign that such a plan comes together.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The beauty of Total War is that it so surprisingly well corresponds with real history. The Turks simply beg for magnificent players, who can play a game of simultaneous expansionist war combined with tremendous economic and religious sophistication.

But it is nice to see a new member who is so enthusiastic about the game. How old are you?

Dude, I'am alreAdy fiftEen!!


We need you in the Backroom Adrian! Some pompous Frenchman is posting the most outrageous nonsense about Great Britain and we need you to put him firmly in his place!

[Mete Han]

yav arkadaşlar ingilizcem zayıfta söylermisiniz Türkler çok zayıf olmuş hakettiğimiz gücü alamamışız ayrıca kapıkulu olsa gerek qapıqulu diye bi süvari yapmışlar arkadaş kapıkulu diye bi süvari yoktuki bizde harbi çok dandik olmuşuz ingilizce bilenler çevirsin ya :S

abicim turkler gucsuz falan degil oyundaki en guclu ordu turklerde. tabi tum parcalari dogru kullanmayi bilirsen... oyunun basinda sipahilerle dolu ordularla savasman lazim. sehir ele gecirirken tabi ki infantry(piyade) kullan. sonra kapıkulu gercekten tarihte var ve onlarin suvarileri de gercekten var. ve oyunda da chargedan sonra en iyi dovusen agır suvari cunku mace'i yani gurzu var bu da armor piercing oldugu icin rakiplarinin zırhını yarıya dusuruyor demektir. en iyi musketeer turklerde, en iyi okculardan birisi turklerde, sipahilerde en iyi okcu suvari olmasa da diger okcu suvarilere gore daha ucuz oldugu ve sehirlerdeen de urteilebildigi turkleri oyundaki en okcu suvari factionlarindan birisi yapiyo. tabi bu noktada okcu suvari kullanma taktikleriini bilmen gerekiyor. eger iyi kullanırsan full Horse Archer army ile (hepsi atılı okcu olan bir ordu ile) 3 katın kadar kalabalık orduları yenebilirsin. ama kullanmayi bilmiyosan atli okcular nazik uniteler olduklari icin cok asker kaybedersin. bir de oyunda en onemli sey ekonomi... ne kadar para o kadar asker... bu sitede bir tane post var atli okculari nasil kullanabilecegin ile ilgili, ingilizcen yeterse onu oku..: p://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=73479 neyse kolay gelsin. biraz sabret turkler oyundaki en iyi factionlardan birisi. bence en iyisi... jan heavy infantryleri kullanmayi ogren. biraz ugras yaparsin.

[floydsvoid123]

Playing 1.3 Vanilla M2TW M/M Turks, 2 years per turn.

I found the Turks to be a very difficult game like many people. The biggest reason would be that you are incredibly poor for much of the beginning, and although you are surrounded by rebel settlements for the taking none will help you much with the financial situation. My first priority was to gather armies to take Nicaea and Smyrna to drive out the Byzantines. Nicaea is important because it has a port. Smyrna because the Byzantines can use it to generate their early castle units (nothing spectacular, but why waste troops and upkeep defending Iconium and Nicaea when you could be using it for better purposes?) Another town I went for was Acre. In my game I took Tbilisi early, though in retrospect I could have ignored it for a while. Castles I kept were Mosul, Tbilisi, and Caesarea.

Acre and Gaza are two very important castles. They are very well upgraded and will be vital for defeating both the Egyptians, the Jerusalem garrison (when the Crusade is called) and the Mongols. I kept both as castles because I knew they would be two major unit factories against the Mongol threat.

I probably played this the wrong way, but I didn't take that many more settlements until the Jihad on Jerusalem was called. Especially Antioch, since the Pope will call a Crusade on that or Jerusalem, whichever strikes his fancy. Then I got every general I could to join the Jihad and used Acre as a factory to take Jerusalem easily. I love Jerusalem - it is where you will produce your first Janissary Heavy Infantry and Saracen militia. After this, I sent one and a half stacks to fight the Egyptians (Gaza first), and another stack from Acre and half from Caesarea to snap up Antioch, Damascus, Adasa, Trebizond, Edessa, and Aleppo.

Egypt is a tough nut to crack. Luckily I'd stopped them from getting to Jerusalem and they were stuck at Gaza. I took Jedda with a small force, then I concentrated on Cairo since it was better developed and could probably produce Saracens at the very least. After Cairo Alexandria fell with no real problem, and Dongola was another peace of cake. Dongola I turned into a city, as well as most of the cities in the Middle East. I called jihad on Baghdad for more exp points.

I found that I typically had very little money to make any agents apart from a few spies here and there. Also, I had accidentally agreed to trade rights with the Byzantines, landing me a Dubious rating for diplomacy (no one wants to ally with me). For any other faction by now I'd have about eight priests (or other religious figures) with about six or seven piety. For the Turks I had to extensively focus on beating down my foes. I'd finished off the Egyptians relatively late (turn 65-ish), which meant till then my agents were pretty much about three spies, two imams and two diplomats.

Now, I never had a big problem with Crusades in my game. The secret is to use the port in Nicaea. Build two pretty decent size fleets and block the land bridges. Crusading armies can't cross them then, and very few if any factions even dream of using boats to get to the Holy Land. Sooner or later the Crusade will fail, and once you defeat Egypt and consolidate your Middle Eastern territories you can even leave the bridges empty. No one will want to Crusade against you.

A problem I had was Poland. Either Poland or Russia will become strong in the northeast part of the map. I'd taken Sarkel and Caffa (two undeveloped villages north of the Black Sea) early on and was waiting for them to gain wooden walls (it take forever). Poland by then had taken up to Kiev, and eventually took both settlements defenseless. I suppose I should have dealt with them using the castle at Tbilisi, but I didn't have enough resources and just left them be. Well, fast forward about fifty turns, and what do you know - the Poles come in with a full stack, take Tbilisi and Trebizond, and now I'm stuck trying to beat back the Mongols and the Poles at the same time.

Combat is pretty simple for horse archer nations. The Turks are most similar to the Armenians in my opinion from RTW. They have a very strong infantry unit (the Janissaries, plus the Sipahi dismounteds and Saracens - very good anticavalry troops), plus incredible horse archers. The only weakness horse archers have are other horse archers. While you should indeed turn off skirmish mode and fight without it whenever you can, in my game I didn't even have to do that. Against Egypt, which has no notable horse archers (or indeed chariots from RTW), I just turned on autofire and skirmish, gave my General two Bedouin cavalry to take down archers, and let the horses do their magic. Very rarely did I lose more than twenty units per battle, most of them in the General's bodyguard and Bedouin cavalry.

The Mongols, Poles, and Russians will be big problems. They are all horse archer heavy factions. Poles and Russians will tend to use javelins, so you can outrange them with bows, so they're less of a threat. But the Mongols for me were incredibly difficult. They for some reason would refuse to engage in bridge or river crossing fights, so I was always forced to fight in open terrain (they'd never fight in sieges either). Horse archer battles will eventually turn into who has the better melee stats and numbers, and since I had very little cavalry to deal with the comparatively HUGE number of archers they brought, and my horse archers would eventually get slaughtered once their arrows ran out, I opted to fight with infantry. I brought over all the infantry I could - Ottomans, Naffatun, Janissaries, dismounted Sipahis, and Saracens, as well as crusading and normal mercenaries. Big mistake - at best I only killed off some of their melee cavalry and some archers using my Ottoman infantry, while the Mongols poured arrow after arrow at me from far across the screen.

It eventually came down to just building full stacks and trying to engage as few Mongol stacks at a time. Luckily they never took any settlements, so I left their numbers dwindling further and further in a savage war of attrition. I'd almost beaten them back, however, when BAM! four more full stacks arrive south of Baghdad.

That's where I quit. I could probably have mustered the forces to beat them down again, but it would take too long and I'd undoubtedly be vastly unprepared for the Timurids (who I could at least force the elephants to rampage, but then there are the rockets). Something that annoyed me about the Mongols was that they had rockets. That just seemed a bit unfair - here we didn't even get gunpowder yet, and they come at us blowing rockets.

However, better players than me could probably contain the Mongol threat far easier than I could. The Turks are an amazing faction to play and their late armies could probably take on anything, but it take prodigious skill to overcome their rocky beginnings - and the Mongols and Timurids.

[dzidek]

The Turks... "the" strongest faction in the game.... without questions... defensively they field the strongest units you can get... great archers with "stakes", top notch muskets, capable spermen, outstanding shock infantry, good artillery, very good flanking cavalry.
In the offense ottoman infantry + sipahis (both ha and lancers) work wonders.

You have great armies at your disposal, how could you loose? You lack money... a lot...

How do i play the Turks?

I abbandon the east provices... i make my line of defense at Trebizond - Aleppo line. Tnen i push south into Egipt once they attack me. By the time they do i already have Constantinopol, and the Bosfor so i cut down all those land crusades. I take the islands of Rhodos, Crete and Cyprus. After i take Constantinopole the byzantines are so weak they are no threat, Venetians land some crusades but their staks of militia are easily repelled by JHI and Sipahis HA.
After that i turn to Egpyt taking.. well all of it. The AI is to stupid to use HA properly so i have no problems with tons of Saracen militia it spams.
After Egypt is mine i prepare for the Mongols. By the time they arrive i have Jannisary heavy infantry + archers + artillery + naffatun + Sipahis HA armies.
If they come for my lands they head for Antioch so i massacre them at the bridges or in the city. If they go for Kiev you are safe for several turns.

After you have all of the middle east you have tons of cash and you can choose your targets out of fun factor not strategic view.
You can land a invading army in England altough the distance and religion will make the towns rewolt easily.

[Uykusuz]

Ok I'm probobaly writing this in the wrong place but this is my first post, so I ask for forgiveness. I don't really know how modding the game occurs or what it exactly is, but I have spotted pretty disturbing stuff about the Turks. First, the guys are too Arab-like. I am not talking about modern-day Turkey but I mind you, before the Arabds came and introduced their ways in the 1350's, our women used to fight alongside men, and not in times of dire need, either, they were mounted and were well-respected warriors. I mean, we were Muslim of course but not as Arab-like as the post 1350 period (1299 was the year the Ottoman Empire was established, at least in the form of a beylik, a small feudal state). As the game continues up until the 1500's I understand that it was not possible for the game programmers to input some kind of total cultural transformation after a specific turn or over time but I thought perhaps I could hear your thoughts. I have seen the Magyar-improving board before having joined the forum, I'm searching for it right now, so that I could get some help on opening my own perhaps. Help, anyone?