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Thread: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

  1. #1
    Tjabbe Member Djurre's Avatar
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    Default Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    I've been reading a lot of complaints on weak cavalry, and how they are real eager to die at the hands of those elite peasants and militia.

    Well, my frech AI opponent does not agree. I just sieged Rennes with a full stacked army, with the only defender being a familiy member. I had 4 units of dismounted english knigts in combat with that unit.

    So bare with me.

    1 unit gets charged on the front, and because they have a higer attack rate than defence rate, i decide to counter charge, just before the cavalry hits home. i send another unit into the fray, and then, after a while, another 90 knights charge into the french from the rear. and then, another one connects with the two fighting on the front.

    So this is 30 bodyguards, and 1 general. vs. 360 english footknights.
    halfway through that fight ive lost about 100 of these fellows, and killed 1, yes 1 bloody bodyguard. i decide to throw in my own general and knights and in the end they manage to kill off the french.

    end of battle report: i killed 31 troops, and lost 120.
    this is on medium i might add.

    what did i do wrong.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    Bodyguard units have 2 hitpoints if I remember well. So you fought 60+(general hitpoints) elite guys.

  3. #3
    Tjabbe Member Djurre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    but still, dismounted english knights aren't shabby either. i swear, i was 100 men down, and they had only took 1 casualty.

  4. #4
    Tjabbe Member Djurre's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    This is getting weird.

    Now a unit of border horsemen, takes out half my armoured swordsmen by chraging them in the front. i mean instantly, as if difficulty has just gone through the roof.


    ----------

    yes, this one is even weirder. has anyone else experienced this?
    Last edited by Djurre; 11-14-2006 at 20:56.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    I had a unit of armoured spearmen that an Ai general charged head on in the the woods. I was rolling my eyes at the stupidity and thinking it was back to RTW levels of stupidity when I relised they'd cut through my troops like butter. My 72 spearmen became 20 in like 5 seconds. and the rest lasted another 10 before routing. It was the enemy King and he had 32 units but still...

  6. #6
    Just an Oldfart Member Basileus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    I lose alot of infantry against Cav and its vice verca when its the opposite thing, so im starting to wonder if im using my inf the wrong way or something. I dont have a hard time winning battles though ive lost once and i was outnumbered by 400 troops and i always play on VH.

  7. #7
    Member Member Alexander the Pretty Good's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    Was your infantry formed up when being charged?

  8. #8
    Texan Member BigTex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    One of the things is you should never ever counter charge the cavalry. Stand your infantry and have them guard. Let the cavalry stall out you'll be able to slaughter them en mass. Counter charging cavalry with infantry will always mean a loss for the infantry.
    Wine is a bit different, as I am sure even kids will like it.
    BigTex
    "Hilary Clinton is the devil"
    ~Texas proverb

  9. #9

    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    The AI can charge horses so they *always* get the charge bonuses.

    Human controlled (AI) doesn't charge properly: so the majority of the time you dont get the benefit of the charge bonus, nor do you get all the unit (front rank +) actually engaging.

    I understand that this is due for a fix in the upcoming patch.

    I've variously gotten around this by charging the horse at the unit behind the intended target, running them fast into units and so forth - you cant miss when the charge bonus kicks in as they stomp the foe mightily. When it doesn't they are rather ineffective indeed.
    morsus mihi

  10. #10

    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTex
    Counter charging cavalry with infantry will always mean a loss for the infantry.
    Hmm, interesting statement - possibly just down to interpretation of comment though:

    I tend to do just that with spear units (counter charge) and it works remarkably well for the infantry - you just have to make sure you get the timing right.

    I suspect therefore that we are looking at two different instances - if you hit the cavalry "before they actually charge" (i.e. before the charge bonus kicks in) you may well win. If you hit them "as they have charged", you will lose.

    Wouldn't try it with non spear units mind you
    morsus mihi

  11. #11
    Member Member TheImp's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    I agree with the statement "Don't counter charge cavalry with infantry". It is rather suicidal. The best way to deal with a charging cavalry is by facing them and put your unit on "defend" mode. Unless of course, u have peasants on mules charging Zweilanders.
    "He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses, Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes."
    Eddard and Lyanna Stark about Jon Snow Targaryen.

  12. #12
    Texan Member BigTex's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkmoor_Dragon
    Hmm, interesting statement - possibly just down to interpretation of comment though:

    I tend to do just that with spear units (counter charge) and it works remarkably well for the infantry - you just have to make sure you get the timing right.

    I suspect therefore that we are looking at two different instances - if you hit the cavalry "before they actually charge" (i.e. before the charge bonus kicks in) you may well win. If you hit them "as they have charged", you will lose.

    Wouldn't try it with non spear units mind you
    Indeed if you hit still cavalry with infantry the cav is slaughtered. Thats basicly my point, counter charging a charging cavalry unit with infantry is suicide. Most of your ranks are broken so alot of times the cavalry can ride through it, completely decimating you. The trick is to use guard mode and let them charge and come to a halt. Once they've halted disable guard and double right click to attack them.
    Wine is a bit different, as I am sure even kids will like it.
    BigTex
    "Hilary Clinton is the devil"
    ~Texas proverb

  13. #13
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigTex
    One of the things is you should never ever counter charge the cavalry. Stand your infantry and have them guard. Let the cavalry stall out you'll be able to slaughter them en mass. Counter charging cavalry with infantry will always mean a loss for the infantry.
    Unless your infantry are billmen.

  14. #14
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weak cavalry? it does not work both ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkmoor_Dragon
    The AI can charge horses so they *always* get the charge bonuses.

    Human controlled (AI) doesn't charge properly: so the majority of the time you dont get the benefit of the charge bonus, nor do you get all the unit (front rank +) actually engaging.

    I understand that this is due for a fix in the upcoming patch
    In order to get a good charge going:

    (1) you need to have a decent sized gap between your cav and your target

    (2) Stop your cav to let them form up if need be (i.e. if youve had them running around).

    (3) Target your enemy, but WALK DONT RUN. If you run your charge will lose cohesion

    (4) Leave em to it. At the correct distance your cav will break into a charge.


    If youre defending against elite heavy cav or bodyguards with normal (i.e. non-spear etc) infantry then expect to get slaughtered. This is as it should be.

    Use spearmen and ensure theyre in guard mode, in formation, and NOT MOVING.

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