The mongols, how does one beat them?

[Barny Bangs]

I was quite intrigued with the mongols at their first arrival and let my spies watch them leave a wake of sacked rebel towns. At first I thought it funny, how the mighty Turks and Egyptians got their buttocks whooped.

During that time I was in control of Jerusalem and the citadel in Gaza, preparing for a strike against Antioch. Yet what I did not see: the two stacks I watched and mistook for the mongol invasion was just a two-stack-scouting army with the main body trailing behind.

I played out the "mongol situation" three times (à 30 turns) and got some of the best and bloodiest battles I ever experienced in TW:

A. Let 'em come
Bad Idea. At least for me. After sacking Antioch and its neighboring provinces, the Horde turned towards Jerusalem. A huge city at the time, I had a full stack of top-notch units there, mostly archers. I beat them back in three intense battles, but in the fourth battle, they took Jerusalem. To my surprise, they settled there and over the course of the next dozen turns they completely shook the blance of power in the Middle East, wiping out Egypt, the Turks and heading for Constantinople.

B. Give it to them
Worse idea. I called for a crusade to Bagdhad, built four huge crusader armies and tried to battle it out with their armies in the plains. They crushed me. I would call myself a hardened TW-vet, but open-field-battles against mongols was a humiliating experience. My spearmen were worthless, the Templer knights were doing better, still being crushed and my cannons fired two times before their cav was on me. During the next turns I watched as crusader armies from all over Europe bit the dust, only causing minor damage to the mongols. A few turns later they again stood near Jerusalem, now undefended and turned it into their homebase.

C. Guerilla tactics
Yep, good idea. I built three full-stack, top-notch armies with six-star-generals to lead them. I produced reinforcements on an epic scale in Gaza and Rhodos, constantly shipping them to Antioch. Now here's the deal: I lingered near Antioch, waiting for the Mongols to come near the river crossings. There, I positioned my best army plus half a stack reinforcments behind them. The mongols attacked with two full-stackers (and 8-point generals) and I beat them back (yet, a costly victory for me, my first army in shambles, but wiping out two mongol armies)). They lingered near Antioch for two turns, tried another river crossing and got beaten back by my second army. The rest of the Horde turned back east, trying to take another route.
This time I send six single light cav units to the mongols, which they attacked immediatly. I withdrew, luring one of their armies out in the open were I crushed them with brute force (2 armies). I continued this tactic, whitlling down the mongol numbers and finally, I killed off the last stack.
It cost me all of my treasury for a couple of dozen turns, weakened my position in Europe considerly and made me lose my favourite general plus some of my best units. Yet, I can proudly say: The English Empire single-handily repelled the Mongol Invasion and kept Jerusalem save for further generations

[Quillan]

Barny, a stack and a half at a river crossing is exactly how I stopped them in my Byzantium campaign. They came in through Russia in that game, and I was defending the crossings near Iasi. They hit both crossings on the same turn with two armies, exactly like you had, and I held both. Then they moved off northwest. I thought they'd decided the crossings were too tough to force, but a dozen or so turns later they came back. This time they hit one crossing with 3 armies, including 2 of their massive 8-star generals. It was a tough fight, and a close one, but I won. After that, they stayed away from the river and tried to sneak around by Budapest. I fought them in the open field twice, won both, but they were the toughest fights I've had.

[Byzantine Emperor]

In my English game the Mongols are nigh on unstoppable, they are the only reason I haven't won (need Jerusalem!). They own everything east of Constantinople, bar Russia. The Timurids would put an end to them I thought. But no. Timurids lose one battle and then run off and prance around Russia. I have lost around 5 armies trying to take Jerusalem now! Any help? (I only have around 30-40 turns left)

[Sheogorath]

Theres a fairly simple tactic, all it requires is a bit of money and a few cities/castles close to the area you want to drive the Mongols out of:

Step 1. Build as many cheap units as you can
Step 2. Find a Mongol stack, launch your own stack at it.
Step 3. Autoresolve and repeat until the Mongols have achieved a paste-like concistency
Step 4. ????
Step 5. PROFIT!

[NeoSpartan]

WOW!!! Those mongols really seem like the Vane of everyone. It makes me want to slug it out with them... 1st I need to get MTW2 and a new PC.

Has anybody beat them in the OPEN in Medium or higher battle difficulty??

[Napoleon Blownapart]

I haven't fought them myself, but my friend was playing his Russian campaign and beat them by using castles and assasins. The Mongols are defeated if you kill all their family members. Their armies go away and don't turn rebel. Of course, this is only from before the settled, and the next waves will still come.

You may not have any high-level assassins to deal with the family members, but you're apparently the English and your Longbows are perfect archers for siege battles. Try to get some ballista towers or cannon towers if you can. Get your archers on the walls and if they're Yeomen Archers, don't worry about ladders or siege towers, as they're pretty competent in close-combat to deal with the Mongolians.

I try to set up a killing field using archers and towers, where the enemy will try to throw themselves against. My idea is the longer their under my arrow's shadows, they're taking casualties, so I try to keep them there as long as I can. Sometimes a unit or two of militia sacrificing themselves to buy me more time works wonders.

Cannons and catapults screw with this plan of battle a lot, but the AI tends not to guard them very well, often advancing forward with all their forces and leaving the crews exposed. A good time to practice cavalry charges.

[Comrade Alexeo]

Wow, I'm starting to wonder if I should continue my conquering in the Middle East in my HRE campaign...



I know it sounds like a dumb idea, but has anyone thought about just bringing European strength head-to-head against the Mongols?

I'm talking about all-out massed heavy cavalry charges. Forget infantry, forget archers, forget artillery. Hell, forget maneuvering - just an enormous wave of Gothic Knights or Lancers or Hospitallers that tries to get into melee as soon as possible.

Now, I know that historically the classical European charge never found great success in the East, where they charged upon an enemy that simply stepped out of the way and shot their composite bow - but I also know that one of the biggest reasons for the lack of success was the fact that knights were vastly outnumbered. A charge on its own might be devastating, but it was just too little, too late...

...but in M2TW, this numbers problem might not exist. First off, we know they're coming. Secondly, we can get numbers of knights that medieval kings would never have even dreamed of. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, we can replenish those numbers if we plan ahead.

Consider, for example, Crusader Knights. Enough Crusades and some babysitting, and you can rather quickly attain huge numbers of them.

I'm not saying that each battle would be anything better than a Pyrrhic victory, and more likely than not a loss, as you're basically trying to play the Mongols' own game by using cavalry. But - and here's the difference from history - what if the charges kept coming?

Gothic and Teutonic Knights against the Khans?

[andrewt]

I played Venice in M/M and am close to beating them back. They dilly-dallied for a while before settling down in Iconium and attacking Smyrna and Nicaea. They rampaged the Turkish and Egyptian lands for 60 turns or so before settling down. They had 10+ stacks by this time, however. I countered with mainly Stradiots, Hospitalliers, Venetian Heavy and Dismounted Feudal Knights. I had some culverins and ribaults as well on some battles with some mixed results

I attacked their flanks with cavalry and their middle with infantry. You can't skirmish that huge an army so they eventually get into melee with my cavalry and infantry and lose. Basically, the cavalry at the flanks cut off some of the escape routes of their main army. Some do skirmish off, but many don't. I position my troops just out of arrow range, then run in.