Unique traits?

[Makanyane]

Thanks for all the info, there's a lot to digest so I'll probably be back.!

BozosLiveHere I hadn't noticed the 'Unique' line in use for ancillaries - that suits me better than the Worldwide condition, thanks for that.

wlesmana I was trying to avoid scripting, because A. I'm useless at it and B. mod so far isn't scripted, so I didn't want to get into the whole hit 'show me how' thing just for this.....

Another way is to give a trait that's automatically given to all new generals, then this trait would give the Ancillary, which is unique worldwide, and this ancillary would trigger more unique traits.

Did you really mean that? Ignoring bit about trying to get FactionwideAncillaryExists & WorldwideAncillaryExists conditions to work in the traits file, can you actually get any trigger for a trait to reference (spawn from) a named ancillary? I couldn't find any example of that either. If I could get my now 'Unique' ancillary to generate trait with epithet I think I might be part of way there.



As you may have gathered by now I'm slightly lost on all this - is there anywhere a list of all the trigger conditions and effects etc. that have been proved to work?

[Makanyane]

Double posting as new info:
For original problem it didn't actually matter too much which general got the unique ancillary and epithet traits (random could actually be quite good), just that they should be together, not recurring at least definitely not until after death and that they shouldn't be divisible. Was using first born as that was only way I thought of initially to tie up the T & A (with advantage if he was in strat it would give me some control over name of general).

Ideally it would have been better to have a specific unique general name with the unique ancillary - but flaw is, I think even with scripting the generals name would have had to go into descr_names.txt pool, meaning game could re-use it for other captains spies etc, which in this case would be sillier result.
(If it is possible somehow to have a once only general name please advise...)

Anyway:
Have finally found one way of linking my now Unique ancillary back to a trait trigger,
I've pinched Marcus Camillus's idea #150
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ry#post1188831
and given my Unique 'Fred ancillary' a 'Effect NavalCommand 2' and then used

Trigger Fred
WhenToTest CharacterTurnEnd

Condition CultureType nomad
and Trait xxxx>= 1
and Attribute NavalCommand > 1
and IsGeneral

Affects Fred_Name 1 Chance 100

to give him the Fred_Name epithet trait on the next turn - that being the only ancillary etc. to give NavalCommand to a general in that culture the epithet shouldn't reappear unless the ancillary is transferred.

To stop the ancillary getting transferred I've set up three new ancillaries that exclude each other and 'Fred' (I believe you can only have three excludes is that right?). Every general in that culture will have to have one of them if they haven't got the Fred ancillary - that seems workable by going through triggers in order with 100% chance as catch all for last one. So none of those three ancillaries or the Fred ancillary can be moved - and epithet shouldn't recur.

umm, any better ideas and advice on known workable trigger conditions still appreciated......

[BozosLiveHere]

I still think you're doing this on the reverse. You should try going trait->ancillary instead of ancillary->trait. Make the ancillary trigger have a Trait Fred > 0 conditional and it should be fine.

[Makanyane]

Thanks again BozosLiveHere for the reply, I'm not arguing but just trying to understand this, I'm already feeling like I've been applying head to brick wall for a very long time, so help is greatly appreciated !!

Trigger Becomes_Dad_For_The_First_Time
WhenToTest CharacterBecomesAFather

Condition Trait Fatherhood < 1

Affects Fatherhood 1 Chance 100

Unless that can be defined for a specific character wouldn't that apply to all men within the family tree who become fathers for first time - possibly simultaneously? I think I understand your very neat timing thing that determines fatherhood 1 starts at birth reaches 2 at coming of age then trips to 3, therefore stops that father giving same trait again - but surely other 1st time fathers (brothers in the tree etc) then and later would still give Firstborn (fred_name) trait to their offspring as well?

That Firstborn trait could link to my Unique / WorldWide restricted 'Fred' ancillary, but if the Firstborn trait isn't itself unique and I can't link back to another restricted trait then I still have no way of getting unique Epithet name in ............... I think

It's still the problem with getting a Trait attached to a name / epithet to trigger only once...

[Apoc]

If you have an idea of when the birth will occur, you can apply the I_TurnNumber condition - this should stop any other 'fathers' getting it later on (though, of course, not anyone getting it within the turn number limit).

[wlesmana]

Unless that can be defined for a specific character wouldn't that apply to all men within the family tree who become fathers for first time - possibly simultaneously? I think I understand your very neat timing thing that determines fatherhood 1 starts at birth reaches 2 at coming of age then trips to 3, therefore stops that father giving same trait again - but surely other 1st time fathers (brothers in the tree etc) then and later would still give Firstborn (fred_name) trait to their offspring as well?

If the guy who's going to have his first child already exists at the start of the campaign, you can just give him the trait in desc_strat.txt and not have a trigger for the trait. So he'd be the only one who'd get it.

The concern with ancillaries is that they can be transfered. If the epithet you're trying to achieve is triggered by an ancillary, even if it is unique, it can still be transfered to others to trigger the same thing.

[Makanyane]

-apocalypsis- thanks for tip on I_TurnNumber condition I'd not spotted that, that could be used - could well help..

wlesmana

If the guy who's going to have his first child already exists at the start of the campaign, you can just give him the trait in desc_strat.txt and not have a trigger for the trait. So he'd be the only one who'd get it.

That would fit with my first idea that the child would be in strat, I would just need to test what happens if dad dies before the child is born.... however now I think I can do it I'm starting to like the idea of it being a random birth!

I'd realised that the flaw with using an ancillary was that it would normally be movable, that was why I was proposing the other three mutually exclusive ancillaries (last one triggered at 100%)

Every general in that culture will have to have one of them if they haven't got the Fred ancillary

you can't seem to transfer an ancillary onto a general that already has either one of the same, or has an existing ancillary that Excludes the one you're trying to move. I've got to re-do most of the traits / ancillaries for this faction so I can make the ones that are blocking the transfer into something useful.
I've tested that I can definitely get one of the four ancillaries to apply to each general that comes of age - I just need to cover adoption / marriage, I need to test that those events can trigger the other three ancillaries...

[Makanyane]

you can't seem to transfer an ancillary onto a general that already has either one of the same, or has an existing ancillary that Excludes the one you're trying to move.

Oh Bahhh, I seem to be wrong again! That appeared to work in testing for the first ancillaries I put in, that were either specified in descr_strat or acquired at coming of age.

Have just tried same principal on some further ancillaries to be acquired on next turn / later and those seem to be moveable despite having same ExcludedAncillaries
line as the first set!

EDIT, EDIT: Principle is right, I was just being thick, the 2nd lot of ancillaries have only got a one way exclusion so A excludes B, but B doesn't exclude A (and can't as it would give me more than three ExcludedAncillaries and CTD!) the reciprocal exclusion is what is needed to stop them being put on same character.