Roman Civil War

[knoddy]

Ok so ive been playing RTW since release and im very curious of something i have never thought of before. Most of the time when playing non roman factions i am forced to deal with the romans very early on (greek, carthage, babarian factions, macedon, thrace etc) and they have never really had a chance to grow to power.

However recently ive started a Armenian Campaign and have found myself completely excluded of wot has been going on in the west, using the toggle Fow command however i see that, the romans are thriving along with the british and spanish (lol) whom they are allied with. now so far there has been no confrentation between myself and the romans, so my question is, will the roman civil war happen even tho there is no player playing a roman faction. i know that i will have to face the romans eventually, but id much rather run round pinching provinces off them while they kill each other off :D :D

realistically the reason i wish to know are because if i have to declear on them sooner or later, id rather do it now while there growing than have all 3 vs me once they have already killed all tehre other enimies.

Cheers Knoddy

[Quillan]

I am not certain. However, I'd say probably not if I had to guess. I played Rome far more than any of the other factions, and in all that time, I rarely recall seeing any of the computer controlled families get to a 7 in Senate standing. They never got above a 5 in Plebian standing, and normally it was in the 2-4 range. I just can't picture one of them taking enough territory quickly enough to reach the standing required for the civil war to start, and that's even assuming the AI allows for an AI vs. AI civil war scenario.

[Celt Centurion]

I have been playing RTW for two years now, and when I play as a Roman Faction, Civil War starts every time, usually about the time that I get to 20 or so territories. The first few times I played, the other factions eventually went to war with each other as well.

When I first played either Greek Cities, or Germania, I don't remember which, there was also a Roman Civil War which took a lot of pressure off of me.

However, now, if I am anything but Roman, I do not remember seeing a Roman Civil War in a long time. It could have been a part of one of the patches.

In all of the campaigns I have played recently, and have saved, the Roman Factions are still allied (if I haven't destroyed them yet.)

Seldom do I see the AI destroy a Roman Faction.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[Riman]

Ave Centurion

can you tell me please how high must my standing with plebs be to start a civil war? must it be above five? what would happen if i tried attack my brother romans earlier? (i`ll try tonight)
would i gain something if i would start a civil war with higher standing with plebs? or just anything above 5 is same good?

[Drusus Magnus]

How about trying to land in Italy, taking Rome and thus destroying the Senate and then just drawing out. Maybe they will fight when they're not controlled by the senate.

[Celt Centurion]

Greetings Riman,

Honestly, I have never been the one to start a Civil War, but rather take full advantage of the profitable trade until the Civil War starts, and I have to deal with it. I have observed that my standing with the Plebs is always very high when one of the Roman Factions attack me, either at the top, or one notch just below it. (8 or 9 if I remember correctly)

You will notice (if you are a Roman faction) that your income will drop drastically when the Civil War starts, as the trade that went on, in large part was with the other Roman Families. If you attack one of them, ALL of it stops, and the next turn will find you deep in the red.

I am presently playing as Julii, and a very unusual experience came on last night. Read another posting which I will make momentarily further down this thread.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

Ave Centurion

can you tell me please how high must my standing with plebs be to start a civil war? must it be above five? what would happen if i tried attack my brother romans earlier? (i`ll try tonight)
would i gain something if i would start a civil war with higher standing with plebs? or just anything above 5 is same good?

[Celt Centurion]

Greetings,

As I just mentioned to Riman, I am presently playing as the Julii, and something very unusual has happened.

Night before last, about 80 or so B.C., there were only seven factions left on the map.

SPQR
Julii
Scipii
Brutii
Egypt
Britannia
Rebels

I had trade going on with all of them, except of course the rebels, who by the way kept trying to get a ceasefire with me. Have any of you ever been approached by the rebels wanting a ceasefire? They came to me at least a dozen times for it.

The Senate kept telling me to blockade Britania, but it was never really worth my while. My thought was, "Why attack somebody who is not attacking me, ruin a good trading relationship, simply to have games thrown in my honor at the Senate's expense?" It made no sense. I was quite content taking rebel settlements, and getting paid by the Senate for taking them.

I refused again to blockade Londinium, and at the beginning of my next turn, found that the Senate had "fined" me thousands of Dinare, and I went from about 7,000 in the black to over 20,000 in the red. Folks, that got me just a wee bit ticked off, and to compensate, I totally screwed up the dynamics of the rest of the game by "add_money 40000", and used it to get out of the hole, and built two urban barracks in Northern Italian Huge Cities. "I'll show them" I thought.

Then, about 15 or so turns later, Scipii attacked me with a blockade, and at the beginning of my turn, I read all the tiles about all the factions being outlawed, but, with a different twist, Brutii was still my ally. SPQR was against EVERYBODY.

I broke the blockade, and took Carthage from the Scipii, but the beginning of every turn showed the same, thousands of dinare in the red. I continued sending armies out to take Scipii Cities, and immediately sent ten Urban Cohorts with silver armor, augmented by 6 Roman Cavalry, and 4 Archer Auxilia to take Rome. I took it.

Then, my ally, the Brutii besieged one of my settlements, but when I went to break the siege, they still showed as an ally. I got the "Attack an Ally?" tile, with only an "X" as an option to continue. I literally could not attack a Brutii attacking my town, because they were still "allies."

"That's fine", I thought. I will train a diplomat at the next town, and send him to break the alliance. The next turn, that town was besieged too, again by the Brutii. My next act was to train about 6 more diplomats all around the place, hoping that one could get to one of the Brutii armies.

During that "end turn" cycle, they attacked at the first city, and fortunately, I was able to fight them on the battle map, and emerge victorious, but it was a near run thing. This settlement was up by the North Sea, and I did not consider it to be in any real danger, so I only had a small garrison of 3 units of archers, three cavalry, two light infantry, and one early legionary cohort. They, on the other hand were much better prepared, a full stack including two Urban Cohorts, but weak on missile.

The next turn, I had a lot of diplomats, but Brutii was still an "ally", and I got an idea.

Instead of breaking the alliance, I decided to "bribe" every Roman Army I could get close too. "Why not?" I thought. I've already screwed up the dynamics anyway. Naughty me. I started adding on money, and bribing both the Brutii and Scipii armies coming toward me. I know that I could beat them, but, why not use their own armies against them? So, for the past several turns, I've bought up about 30 armies, and retrained them back up to full strength and silver armor, (most of them were at partial strength with no armor) My diplomats are also bribing Brutii towns, and I now have reached almost to the Black Sea and Egypt as the Blue and Green shrink. When I run across one who won't be bribed, I send a full army with silver or gold armor, and destroy them. What is funny and sad at the same time, is that after I beat them in battle, the remnant usually bribes fairly easily. Too bad that I had to kill so many. I'm only getting a few badly depleted units rather than a full stack of full strength ones. What a waste.

So now, I still have trade with Britannia, Egypt and Brutii. On/off trade with Scipii. Britannia is confined to the large island of the British Isles, while I have Tara. Egypt is also down to two territories, surrounded by Scipii, so they probably won't last much longer either.

A recent alliance between Brutii and Scipii also prevents me from being able to attack Scipii even now. I keep getting told that I do not have support of the people to do this. so until they actually attack me somewhere, I cannot even attack them, but, their empire is shrinking, as mine stretches.

Have any of you had such crazy things happen, such as not being able to attack a besieging army because they are supposedly "allies?"

I've never seen some of these things happen before, nor have I ever seen all three of the three Roman Families so strong.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

[symball]

I'm afraid you have been caught in the civil war bug Celt Centurion. If you ever have a break up of the roman republic and remain peacefull with a faction (or have a ceasefire) then the game is bugged as the mechanism that stops you starting the civil war early also prevents you from fighting when you are already at war.

I'm afraid that campaign is now lost, if you have a savegame from before the breakup you can use it and try doing something different to preserve the peace. otherwise it is back to the drawing board. you need to get the chance for power message before the game will allow you to fight the other romans properly, and once the senate has gone haywire you won't get that message.

[Celt Centurion]

Thank You Symball,

Last night, I bribed a few more settlements, and got the victory tile, and continued on across Northern Africa and Europe. Red now stretches all the way to and including the Nile Valley in the South, and all the way to Campus Sakae in the North. Brutii has 5 settlements left that won't be bribed, and very little of an army left. Scipii has thin lines from Turkey down to Jerusalem. Egypt has Salamis and one other, but, I did get the Victory Tile (Rome plus 49) last night, and as you implied, from here, it would simply be silly to keep stretching across.

Strength and Honor

Celt Centurion

I'm afraid you have been caught in the civil war bug Celt Centurion. If you ever have a break up of the roman republic and remain peacefull with a faction (or have a ceasefire) then the game is bugged as the mechanism that stops you starting the civil war early also prevents you from fighting when you are already at war.

I'm afraid that campaign is now lost, if you have a savegame from before the breakup you can use it and try doing something different to preserve the peace. otherwise it is back to the drawing board. you need to get the chance for power message before the game will allow you to fight the other romans properly, and once the senate has gone haywire you won't get that message.