Lethargic fights ?

[Bob the Insane]

Well there is a bit of an issue with units charging each other and the charge slowing and only the first couple of rows of men impacting... And then during the fight, well I know people like there personal space but it spacing out can get a little extreme...

I think it is the result of whatever they did to prevent the blobing (the prevention of which si very cool), I just think they might have done just a bit too much of it...

[MadKow]

Well... i charged a unit of Conquistadores against Janissary Heavies. The first charge i used a wedge formation, and it wasn't spectacular, then the Conquistadores backed away, reformed and charged in line, and BANG... there where Janissaries flying everywhere... and got creamed. Plenty of energy, i thought. Wedge formation sucks, i also thought, but that is another discussion.

[Akka]

I think it is the result of whatever they did to prevent the blobing (the prevention of which si very cool), I just think they might have done just a bit too much of it...

Yep, most of my men in the front row just stand here, doing nothing, because ennemies are a bit out of reach or already are fighting someone.
The killing speed seems much more diminished by this than by any new formula, in fact. As soon as fight begins, people die in a matter of second. But it seems to take ages before two people exchange hits.

[BigTex]

Well there is a bit of an issue with units charging each other and the charge slowing and only the first couple of rows of men impacting... And then during the fight, well I know people like there personal space but it spacing out can get a little extreme...

I think it is the result of whatever they did to prevent the blobing (the prevention of which si very cool), I just think they might have done just a bit too much of it...

Yeah the spacing on cavalry when they chase down routers is a bit insane.

As for men no longer flying. They do, I've seen it happen in both inf and cav charges. It doesnt happen as often anymore, thank god, and it is harder to see since the battles are a bit on the darker shade. As for the cav slowing, you have to set the charge up well, this time the shrubs and uneven terrian have even more of an effect.

The fights are slower but there far far better. On VH/VH I've only seen one mass rout and that was after a long and slugged out clash, ending in the enemy general dieing. No more of that contact and rout crud in RTW.

[redriver]

if ya want vivid battles go back to playin' RTW heheh
there's no heavy units like in Medieval times and most men are half nakid and have a small shield with a short spear or sword. the armor/weapons they have isn't nearly as advanced as well. they just barely invented steel and thus not usin' it as much and it's of far lower quality.

when ya look at the above points it's easy to see why the battles in Rome are rather hectic in most cases. the infantry is super light compared to Medieval times and soldiers fight/die faster as a result.. it's much easier to toss an unarmoured man into the air as opposed to a tincan walkin' one...

basically, to me, RTW battles look very realistic as far as those details go... and I don't have problems with *lesser* graphics either ;)

[Puzz3D]

if ya want vivid battles go back to playin' RTW

The fighting in RTW is in slow motion compared to MTW or STW. In the earlier games, the combat cycle was 1 second. That's men striking with their weapon every second, and men tended to gang up on lone enemies better. RTW isn't even close to this intensity except on the initial impact.

[Akka]

The fighting in RTW is in slow motion compared to MTW or STW. In the earlier games, the combat cycle was 1 second. That's men striking with their weapon every second, and men tended to gang up on lone enemies better. RTW isn't even close to this intensity except on the initial impact.

Perhaps that the game mechanics were more frenetics, but in actual visual results, RTW is by far the more energetic, brutal and active game of the lot.
The units seems half asleep in MTW2 and the 2D sprites of STW and MTW don't lend themselves for an actual feeling of mélée.

[Puzz3D]

Perhaps that the game mechanics were more frenetics, but in actual visual results, RTW is by far the more energetic, brutal and active game of the lot.
The units seems half asleep in MTW2 and the 2D sprites of STW and MTW don't lend themselves for an actual feeling of mélée.

The fighting in RTW seems lethargic to me. The men wait something like 5 seconds between strikes. M2TW also has slow fighing animation going by the demo. In STW, the men are striking every second, and I can see them using their weapons. STW looks frenetic to me while RTW looks like slow motion.

The effect of a long combat cycle is an increase in the statistical uncertainty of a unit's combat results. IMO, the statistical uncertainty of the combat resolution was large enough in STW. So, I think shortening the combat cycle combined with reducing the chance to kill would help M2TW both in visual energy and in gameplay.

[Whacker]

The fighting in RTW seems lethargic to me. The men wait something like 5 seconds between strikes. M2TW also has slow fighing animation going by the demo. In STW, the men are striking every second, and I can see them using their weapons. STW looks frenetic to me while RTW looks like slow motion.

The effect of a long combat cycle is an increase in the statistical uncertainty of a unit's combat results. IMO, the statistical uncertainty of the combat resolution was large enough in STW. So, I think shortening the combat cycle combined with reducing the chance to kill would help M2TW both in visual energy and in gameplay.

I second this. STW and MTW, the combat looked more frentic and faster, but it was using the old dated 2d pixelated visuals. (I also loved the combat noise, esp. that high-pitch squeal-yelp that was in STW )

In RTW, the combat looked a bit slower, but it felt more visceral and the initial impacts were much more powerful, visually. Some people hated the flying guys and the jumping horses, even though they aren't realistic, I still liked those animations because it added the overall feeling that violent combat is occurring here.

I can't put my finger on it well, but I concur with Akka's OP, M2TW does feel lethargic compared to it's two predecessors. For one, the initial impacts on charges are woefully inadequate, I'd be all for bringing back RTW's flying men and jumping horses. Second, in terms of combat speed, I think it could stand to be sped up. Methinks they could speed up the animations and cycles and be able to balance out the kill rates and speeds so that it evens out in the end.

To M2TW's credit, while a minor feature, I do like the fact that when soldiers die their textures are darkened and they appear to be covered in blood. It makes it easier to identify when the soldiers bite the dust, versus just getting knocked down like in RTW.

[Akka]

In RTW, the combat looked a bit slower, but it felt more visceral and the initial impacts were much more powerful, visually.

Yep, that's exactly my point !

I don't think, though, that it's necessary to bring back the flying horses and bodies. Just allowing the units to actually charge with and through impact (rather than half-run until being close of the ennemy and then switching to a slow walk until being able to attack), including pushing back the ennemy in a violent manner and knocking down people, would give back the feeling of energy.
A little more reactivity a bit higher acceleration would also be good.

Edit : gosh, this whole lethargy is really sucking all the fun out of the game :-/
I've had to fight a defensive siege. The foes succeed in bashing the door, ok. They start to pour in the place, I send my cavalry to push them back...
Gah, they "run" at half-pace until they're close and then stop to swing their swords... Is it THAT you call a charge to repel the invaders ? 0_o They didn't even pushed a single infantryman out of the way...