possible for EB?

[Cheexsta]

It doesn't quite give units a 0-turn recruitment time; units still have their normal recruitment time (ie 1 turn), but in this case there's a recruitable general unit (a la BI) and when it is trained, a whole army is spawned via script a few tiles from the city. The general would have to be extremely expensive, of course, but still.

I like the idea, far more realistic than taking years to train a single army. To balance it out you could make it so that troops trained normally will start with one or two experience points while the 'levied' troops have none.

[Watchman]

I can foresee some intense pain involved in creating a decent army-spawning script like that for the, uh, midly complicated EB recruitement system though...

[Dumbass]

That is a very cool script, I really think it should be incorperated into EB, with Cheexsta's idea about experience.

[Markus_Aurelius]

where can I download RES GESTAE? not to play it of course but I would sure like to see how to make a script like that of my own...

[Tellos Athenaios]

There are some issues though:
1) how is it going to fit in the mod alongside the complex recruitment structure?
2) how is it going to work with factions that have a very narrow unit roster?
3) how is it going to work with the more complex events that take place in EB, such as reforms that are not tied to an exact date?
4) what effect is it going to have on AI? -> The AI is already having trouble with crossing any distance at sea, and it doesn't make sense to script spamming of armies that don't really have a purpose.
5) what factions get to 'use it', and what factions don't?

[Imperator]

hmmm, all good questions, and I'll admit I don't know if they'll be problem with the recruitment system, but I doubt it. All the modders would need to do is add a special General's unit (or whatever they call it) only trainable in certain faction's capitols, and when this unit is recruited, an army is spawned (it is also a good way for EB-ers to have historical armies) out side on a specific tile.

As for the factions, clearly factions with one "homeland" province, like Roma for the Romans, maybe Casse starting province (sorry, forgot ), or Athenai, Sparte, and Rhodos for KH (see one of my previous posts for explination of different idea for KH. It could even to added to Getai, Makedonia, and any other factions the history buffs around here think could use it.

And I don't see how rosters will stop it, it just spawns an army- of all one unit if the modders really wanted to...the unit composition isn't really a problem.

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

Wouldn't this be a human player only option? To the AI they would see a single expensive unit not worth the cost. This would stop the AI from 'spamming' many armies though.

[Tellos Athenaios]

And I don't see how rosters will stop it, it just spawns an army- of all one unit if the modders really wanted to...the unit composition isn't really a problem.

It's not that it will stop the script from coming into being, and being effective in any way but the 'feel' of "oh, no here we go again..." like people already have with the infamous stacks of Triarii, or light missile infantry, or Klerouchioi.

IMO, it definately should not just be an extra feature for the human players only, since it would then basically end up being a sort of 'cheap way around the recruitment system'. There is no way of properly balancing the cost of scripted armies and manually recruited ones if we take the prerequired investments for the latter into account, as long as the AI can't make use of scripted armies too. To me it boils down to this: the already poor AI that wastes it's money on worthless stacks, and has to build everything itself, is given a disadvantage by some script that enables humans to get around the recruitment system. In other words: if you create such a script, make it 100% sure the AI will use it!

[Cheexsta]

There are some issues though:
1) how is it going to fit in the mod alongside the complex recruitment structure?
2) how is it going to work with factions that have a very narrow unit roster?
3) how is it going to work with the more complex events that take place in EB, such as reforms that are not tied to an exact date?
4) what effect is it going to have on AI? -> The AI is already having trouble with crossing any distance at sea, and it doesn't make sense to script spamming of armies that don't really have a purpose.
5) what factions get to 'use it', and what factions don't?

Bearing in mind that I have no ties to the EB team (and thus don't speak on their behalf), but from what I gather:

1. It'd be reasonably simple. First, it would only be available at that faction's starting capital (but won't move if the capital moves). Second, the 'general' unit that would spawn the army would only be made available at a specific MIC level and with a specific government type (ie type 1). Third, it would only really recruit units that are already available at that time, so for Rome it would recruit maybe 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 1 Triarii, 2 Leves and a unit of Equites. All of these units would be available from Rome at that level of MIC, so it's essentially the same as recruiting a Legion normally from Rome but without taking so long.

2. By spawning a very narrow range of units?

3. Scripted reforms work by placing a building in every settlement and then using that building as a conditional for recruitment. It'd be reasonably simple to have the script check to see whether that building is present in the capital city and then generate the appropriate army. So for Rome, if it detected the Polybian Reforms 'building', the script would place a Polybian army on the Field of Mars.

4. You'd be surprised how well the AI uses its navy in 1.5 and 1.6. It's not brilliant, but they at least understand the concept of loading an army into ships and reinforcing besieged settlements overseas. In one RTRPE game recently, Carthage took over most of Sicily and sent its victorious armies elsewhere. When I, as Rome, attacked Sicily and destroyed their few remaining armies, I split my army up to besiege their cities. Imagine my surprise when a few full stacks landed on the island to relieve their sieges and my army was in pieces.

5. I'd say that most armies should have access to it. Rome is known for levying armies at an extreme rate when it needs to (ie Hannibalic War), Carthage would be able to raise an army of Mercenaries, and most other factions would be able to get some levy-type troops quickly and easily if it had to. Of course, the AI wouldn't recruit the general unit that would spawn the army, but it shouldn't be hard to be able to add into the background script a few lines to make the army automatically spawn if the faction is in danger (ie it has cities under siege and has no armies). What would be cool is if that army was destroyed then that faction would sue for peace and accept almost anything, but the closest one can come to that is using the "console_command force_diplomacy accept" cheat in the script (which, I might add, only works in scripts).

Just my 2c.

[Watchman]

I've read that one of the problems with the Carthaginians' merc-heavy army was specifically the time it took to gather all those sellswords from all around the Western Mediterranean. Although they did have a citizen-militia system of sorts (Citizen Militia and Cavalry basically, AFAIK), who could presumably be put to field very quickly in a crisis. I've read Carthage maintained pretty impressive stockpiles of weapons and armour in stores built into its triple wall.

Conversely Republican Rome had a huge pool of citizen militia all over the Italian peninsula, and could simply call successive portions to arms as needs dictated in a comparatively short time.

Just thought I'd point that out.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Bearing in mind that I have no ties to the EB team (and thus don't speak on their behalf), but from what I gather:

1. It'd be reasonably simple. First, it would only be available at that faction's starting capital (but won't move if the capital moves). Second, the 'general' unit that would spawn the army would only be made available at a specific MIC level and with a specific government type (ie type 1). Third, it would only really recruit units that are already available at that time, so for Rome it would recruit maybe 2 Hastati, 2 Principes, 1 Triarii, 2 Leves and a unit of Equites. All of these units would be available from Rome at that level of MIC, so it's essentially the same as recruiting a Legion normally from Rome but without taking so long.

2. By spawning a very narrow range of units?

3. Scripted reforms work by placing a building in every settlement and then using that building as a conditional for recruitment. It'd be reasonably simple to have the script check to see whether that building is present in the capital city and then generate the appropriate army. So for Rome, if it detected the Polybian Reforms 'building', the script would place a Polybian army on the Field of Mars.

4. You'd be surprised how well the AI uses its navy in 1.5 and 1.6. It's not brilliant, but they at least understand the concept of loading an army into ships and reinforcing besieged settlements overseas. In one RTRPE game recently, Carthage took over most of Sicily and sent its victorious armies elsewhere. When I, as Rome, attacked Sicily and destroyed their few remaining armies, I split my army up to besiege their cities. Imagine my surprise when a few full stacks landed on the island to relieve their sieges and my army was in pieces.

5. I'd say that most armies should have access to it. Rome is known for levying armies at an extreme rate when it needs to (ie Hannibalic War), Carthage would be able to raise an army of Mercenaries, and most other factions would be able to get some levy-type troops quickly and easily if it had to. Of course, the AI wouldn't recruit the general unit that would spawn the army, but it shouldn't be hard to be able to add into the background script a few lines to make the army automatically spawn if the faction is in danger (ie it has cities under siege and has no armies). What would be cool is if that army was destroyed then that faction would sue for peace and accept almost anything, but the closest one can come to that is using the "console_command force_diplomacy accept" cheat in the script (which, I might add, only works in scripts).

Just my 2c.

1) Not historical accurate, as those armies simply were assembled on a predefined meeting point, that is for example Rome for the Romans. This means you should be able to move such a place around.
2) That's not fun, is it? I believe I stated this in this thread before.
3) You're using a lot of buildings just for scripting, and how is this going to affect the whole mod regarding the building limits? Remeber that only few factions are nearly completed, thus that there will probably new buildings needed to portray the others.
It's not that it's wrong to use such building conditionals, it might simply be not enough especially since the mod isn't near completion (factions, units, etc.)
4) This is due to a simple line in the strat.txt, which tells the faction to prefer naval invasions. Point is, that although AI is clearly improved regarding naval activity, EB has such expensive ships that this might simply be too much to cope with. After spending all your income, included scripted income, the AI doesn't have anything to build new ships with.
5) I'm of the same opinion there, but is the EB team?

Note that all of the 'issues' I mentioned prior to and in this post shouldn't stop the script from coming into being. Oh no, all I'm stating is that it's all very simple to want it in, it's quite another thing to incorporate this alongside the mod as it is now, or as it is in EB 0.8 (for as far as I know it).