Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

**=Omni=** · 11-16-2006, 23:13

AFAIK in XVIIth century the commonwealth didn't have a solid army and the state army was relatively small, compared to the armies fielded by the landlords. So to model it I came with an idea.

First of all, let's have some units avaible as mercenaries - for example the nobles (szlachta) units should be recruited while outside towns, so that a general would have to make a run through a few provinces to gather an army (to simulate the habit of calling comrades under arms, that usually took some time). In cities you should be able to train more specialised infantary, like piechota wybraniecka etc, though the soldier pool would be way lower than in other factions.

Also, as many armies were fielded by landlords, we can try to show it this way - place some rebel armies in a few forts scattered around the country. They would be passive, so you wouldn't have to fight them. Then, in case of war, or war expedition, you could bribe them, so that they'd join you. They would be quite unloyal -so you would have to keep an eye on them - (maybe, if it's possible, their loyality would go down as the time passes on) and maybe they'd also cost a bit, so that after the war you'd have to disband them and they'd show as rebels back in their fort, ready for next bribing :p With this system, The Commonwealth wouldn't have a huge, constant army, thus its power would be fairly limited - and if we take into account that the Polish/Lithuanian army of this time was one of the best, it would prevent Poland from becoming the superpower too fast.

**cegorach** · 11-17-2006, 08:20

I disagree.

I am Polish and have very good knowledge about the period in our history.

The state was decentralised, but not this way, rather like the USA before the Civil War.

The way is to limit the recruitment pool, I believe or the way it was doen in the first edition of the PMTW for MTW VI.

Thank you.

**cegorach** · 11-17-2006, 08:53

Here is the list of Polish national units in the mod - based on the list from PMTW1 can be changed a little, we will see

some of those will appear slightly later

Piechota Wybraniecka

Piechota Polska

Muszkieterzy

Pikinierzy

Husarze - early unit, avalable for short time;

Tatarzy

Lisowczycy

Husaria

Petyhorcy

Kozacy

Rajtarzy

Dragoni

Wagon Infantry ( Tabory)

--later-> after some sort of event - large military reform - Husaria (reformed)

--later-> Litewska Husaria - as above

--later-> Gwardia Piesza - musketeers - on the right

--later-> Gwardia Piesza - pikemen

--later-> Pancerni

--later-> Wolosi

--later-> Rajtarzy - different than in earlier campaigns

or in a hat

--later-> Muszkieterzy

--later-> Pikinierzy

--later-> Fuisilliers

--later-> Grenadiers

+ possibly by a sort of crusade or by rebellions

Szlachta,

Powiatowe pospolite ruszenie,

Czeladz Obozowa - more than the usual camp servants

+ officers, regional and mercenary types ( Cossacks, Hungarians, Romanians, Germans, Scots etc)

27 units - it is much larger than avarage, but the army was very varied so is justified.

**=Omni=** · 11-17-2006, 09:18

Hehe, I'm also Polish, though I'm not a history expert, so I'll belive you

What I've always heard (or read) is that Polish magnaci were quite independent from state and in case of war the king had to ask them for support. Also the landlords armies (especially the eastern Kniaz's armies, like Jarema Wiśniowiecki's) were quite big, even bigger than the state ones. Of course my vision of XVII th century Poland may be blurred, as most refferences I've read were from either student books or Sienkiewicz's literature :p

Though I still think that my idea would add some "spice" to the mod

**cegorach** · 11-17-2006, 09:25

Perhaps, but it add some strange possibilities ( bribing by enemy ), besides the strenght of the private armies was greatly exaggerated - noone could afford more than 2000 men in most cases and not for long, actually.

The forces usually in time of war were given to the Hetmans to lead and were payed by the state, so in reality only in very extremem cases someone had more than the king (his guard was not limited to the 1200 men in times of war - reached even 5000 or more).