Circassia

[yakuza]

jsno, nodumaju dlja sozdatelei igri luche esli eti posti budut na angliskom:D
no spasiba za informaciju, maji lektori kavkazologii takix by ne skazali:D
kstati kak vy cherkesku nazivaete? my ejo nazivaem choxa, i kak ja sliwal eta udiiskoe slova.

This is an armor of Uork yes?

[yakuza]

jsno, nodumaju dlja sozdatelei igri luche esli eti posti budut na angliskom:D
no spasiba za informaciju, maji lektori kavkazologii takix by ne skazali:D
kstati kak vy cherkesku nazivaete? my ejo nazivaem choxa, i kak ja sliwal eta udiiskoe slova.

This is an armor of Uork yes?

I mean this:
http://circassian.narod.ru/images/circass/circas4.jpg

[Gedonist]

kstati kak vy cherkesku nazivaete? my ejo nazivaem choxa, i kak ja sliwal eta udiiskoe slova.

Мы называем черкеску "цей", а целиком костюм называем "Адыгэ фащэ".

[Gedonist]

I mean this:
http://circassian.narod.ru/images/circass/circas4.jpg

По-моему это стилизация - не очень похоже на аутентичную вещь...

[Gedonist]

Blazonry of Russian Princes from Circassian:

Chercassky:


Lopukhin:

[cegorach]

Excellent work !

Are those pictures suitable fro the period between 1570 and 1700 ?




Please check the thread we used to gather information about Circassia for MTW1 edition of the mod

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60860



ESPECIALLY this post with the unit list I am using

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...5&postcount=58

[yakuza]

Excellent work !
Are those pictures suitable fro the period between 1570 and 1700 ?

no

[yakuza]

This is my personal opinion about how Cicassian units must look like

1. The elite warriors with a mace, like this one:



or the sitting guy:
https://img208.imageshack.us/img208/...0086yu1.th.jpg

I don't know, maybe these type of warriors have special name.

2.Werk Horsemen, kabardinian horseman with heavy armor and swords.

[/b]3.[/b]LCircassian Light Cavalry, or just Jigits, without armor, wearing only with the thik tartan wool thing (I mean the black bulletproof clothe on shoulders). whith bows, and swords.
This thing on his heat, as you seen in many pictures(works as a hood)


4.Adyghe Nobility, with Armor, clothe on armor, sword and shield.
The left one:




5.Abreks, the same as nobility only with the thick tartan thing and a gun.

This units are only my imaginations, let's wait for gedonist, and see wath he says about hystorical acuracies of this units and it's names.

[Yinal_the_Great]

Okay first of all salute to Yakuza and Gedonist; they have done a great job!

Some of those images looks more like 1750 - 1850 but they are acceptable (with some modifications) for an earlier or much later period...

Anyway games period:

1570-1700

Weapons largely the same except Firearms.

Shashka is acceptable it was just introduced in late 1500s and was used until WW II...

The dagger (kindjal) goes back to Roman era.



Firearms...

well I guess in 1570 it was Matchlock muskets (firearms very rare in Caucasus during 1500s, nobility -Work- class maybe)

Maybe just include pistols?... But lets not forget Circassians fought like dragoons somewhat. North Caucasians used their horses body for cover (the horse actually were trained for this). They used Horse saddle or head to aim!




Pause at 2.15 to see a picture of this.

nothing political!!! just look at the frame at 02m.15s please
I can't find this anywhere else.



---
Arrows more common (arguably even in 1650-1700)
Long Flintlock muskets (with painted Caucasian designs -detail-).

-----

Main changes are in clothes:

16TH CENTURY-17TH CENTURY:



Consider the last post of Yakuza though, it might be more correct.

Note that these are daily clothes, in battle I am sure they wear more armor.

Late game: (1670-1700)



This image itself is probably based on 1780-1800.

But some modifications it can be fit to late game period.

(I will go to details later)
-----------------------------
To Cegorach

At this point (my movie project is set in "1860") my knowledge of Pre 1800 Circassian history is getting rusty, so probably Yakuza and Gedonist will be more helpful for historical research on Circassia.

As far as I understand there are some Georgian guys who are helping you for Georgian faction...

Anything I can still help with?... I can voice act if you are going to put native voices in the game.



So in short... for historical research... I feel abit useless.


----------------------------------------------------
I am Inal the Great btw (Lost my account)

[Yinal_the_Great]

WITH URL S !

Okay first of all salute to Yakuza and Gedonist; they have done a great job!

Some of those images looks more like 1750 - 1850 but they are acceptable (with some modifications) for an earlier or much later period...

Anyway games period:

1570-1700

Weapons largely the same except Firearms.

Shashka is acceptable it was just introduced in late 1500s and was used until WW II...

The dagger (kindjal) goes back to Roman era.



Firearms...

well I guess in 1570 it was Matchlock muskets (firearms very rare in Caucasus during 1500s, nobility -Work- class maybe)

Maybe just include pistols?... But lets not forget Circassians fought like dragoons somewhat. North Caucasians used their horses body for cover (the horse actually were trained for this). They used Horse saddle or head to aim!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t05-ixJ8t3s


Pause at 2.15 to see a picture of this.

nothing political!!! just look at the frame at 02m.15s please
I can't find this anywhere else.



---
Arrows more common (arguably even in 1650-1700)
Long Flintlock muskets (with painted Caucasian designs -detail-).

-----

Main changes are in clothes:

16TH CENTURY-17TH CENTURY:



Consider the last post of Yakuza though, it might be more correct.

Note that these are daily clothes, in battle I am sure they wear more armor.

Late game: (1670-1700)

https://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7808/untitled1zj.jpg

This image itself is probably based on 1780-1800.

But some modifications it can be fit to late game period.

(I will go to details later)
-----------------------------
To Cegorach

At this point (my movie project is set in "1860") my knowledge of Pre 1800 Circassian history is getting rusty, so probably Yakuza and Gedonist will be more helpful for historical research on Circassia.

As far as I understand there are some Georgian guys who are helping you for Georgian faction...

Anything I can still help with?... I can voice act if you are going to put native voices in the game.



So in short... for historical research... I feel abit useless.


----------------------------------------------------
I am Inal the Great btw (Lost my account)

[WCB]

Gegorach,

Please see your Private Messages.

[cegorach]

You have the answer in your inbox.

I refered to this unit roster - can't be too large for rather minor faction Circassia will be in the game, but 1-2 more justified proposals for units can be added.



ESPECIALLY this post with the unit list I am using

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...5&postcount=58
[/QUOTE]

[cegorach]

I will show some images from the earlier edition of the mod - it is slightly off-topic so I will hide it as a spoiler

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

campaign map from the last campaign where I could squeeze the Circassians


Circassian cavalry - with the earlier banner, now it is corrected



corrected banner + the Tiley champion



a known Circassian leader - unfortunatelly couldn't be added as the leader of the faction (too early campaign)


Peasant militia description


Circassians meet.... Barbary Coast raiders - everything is possible in MP or custom mode ;)


Georgian roster for those interested in the second Caucasus faction




+new campaign map fro the incoming PMTW 2.0 for MTW1 VI

[Savoy]

I will show some images from the earlier edition of the mod - it is slightly off-topic so I will hide it as a spoiler

Dear cegorach.

1) Regular cavalry circassian - "Shuudze" (the mounted army
2) More Best cavalry subdivision - "Worq Shuudze" (the chivalrous mounted army). The Word "Abrek" meant in that timeses highwayman-alone, exorcised from its folk because of murder etc.
3) Do Not know the word "Tiley", but I have named young warrior by circassian word "Tume". So circassians named the illegal princely sons, who their own feat on field of the battle gained itself popularity and became the enjoying full rights prince. Or such warrior-alone possible to do themselves circassian prince
4) I have added else class of the princely bodyguards "Pshikey" (the princely railing). It consisted of usual peasants or freed servants, which were produced in this class for military services
5) Instead of "Lhxwqwel Zewako" offer the word "Zewako" (the warrior)

[Gedonist]

[Gedonist]

[Gedonist]

Circassian Prince (the Kabardian Prince, his name - Kushikupsh) :


Circassians:

[Gedonist]

[Gedonist]

[Gedonist]

sabers & sword:

[Savoy]

Гедонист, а какой период вообще предпологается? 1500-1700 гг.?
Тогда какая территория охвата игры и о каких событиях (войнах) будет идти речь в игре?

Вот авторы описывавшие Кавказ (и черкесов) того времени:
1) Матвей Меховский (1457-1524) - ректор Краковского университета
2) Сигизмунд Герберштейн (1486-1566) - австрийский дипломат
3) Андре Теве (1502-1590) - французский космограф
4) Мартин Броневский (16 в.) - польский дипломат
5) Лазарь Соранцо (16-17 вв.) - венецианский патриций
6) Арканджело Ламберти (1630-1650) - католический миссионер
7) Эмиддио Дортелли д'Асколи (1622-1633) - префект Каффы
8) Джовани да Лукка (17 в.) - католический монах (кстати именно он впервые упомянул адыгское оружие "шашка"). Поэтому в игру ее можно включать 100%-но.
9) Адам Ореалий (Адам Эльшлегер) (1599-1671) - секретарь голштинского посольства
10) Ян Стрейс (17 в.) - голландский путешественник
11) Николас Витсен (1641-1717) - голандский посол
12) Жан Баптист Тавернье (1605-1689) - французский путешественник
13) Жан Шарден (1643-1713) - французский путешественник

з.ы. Надеюсь кто-нибудь переведет мой пост на английский )
Если-что у меня есть выдержки из всех этих источников касательно быта, территории, жилища, одежды и т.п. черкесов.

[Gedonist]

Circassian cavalry sword (sashkhua):

[Gedonist]

Мое почтение Савой! Я сейчас брошу тебе в личку на ХЭКУ. ОК?

[Gedonist]

Kabardien (East Circassian) blazonry:

[Gedonist]

[Gedonist]

dagger

[Gedonist]

To Cegorach

Deer Cegorash<
Regret with my bad English.

Your historical maps in the game - unobserved East Circassia - Kabardey - most very strong Circassian kingdom & important part of Circassia (down to Casspien sea).

Circassia be larger in XV-XVIII сс.

Thank you.

[Gedonist]

To Yinal_the_Great

Salut congener!

[Yinal_the_Great]

To Cegorach

Deer Cegorash<
Regret with my bad English.

Your historical maps in the game - unobserved East Circassia - Kabardey - most very strong Circassian kingdom & important part of Circassia (down to Casspien sea).

Circassia be larger in XV-XVIII сс.

Thank you.

I agree, Circassia should stretch all the way to the Caspian Sea (of course you can argue Dagistans are not Circassians, but at least all the way to Dagistan. The One in the maps looks even smaller than "186" (last four years of Circassia)

But if its too much trouble it is cool Cegorach.

[WCB]

Excellent work !




Are those pictures suitable fro the period between 1570 and 1700 ?




Please check the thread we used to gather information about Circassia for MTW1 edition of the mod

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60860



ESPECIALLY this post with the unit list I am using

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...5&postcount=58

I will look into the LIST of warriors, maybe we need to make some corrections to the TITLES and what they represent.

Circassian does spread East all the way untill Dagestan , especially in time 1570-1700 when it was a rise of Circassian power in Caucasus region.

Cegorach Can you read russian ? if you can, there is a some historical info we can forward about 1570-1700 time frame.