Mafia V: The Family Strikes Back [Concluded]

[doc_bean]

Vote: Silver Rusher

He got me lynched last game and I was innocent (wtf ?)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

What was rational?

You accused me of being a mafioso because I voted based on a clue, rather than randomly or with a bandwagon - apparently because the mafia know the clue.

Of course, were I a mafioso, it would be sensible of me to post what I knew to be the key to my identity. Not. An experienced mafioso apparently wouldn't do that, but I, being a noob, would.

Not really the finest line of logical reasoning, is it?

Unless of course, you are trying to draw attention away from yourself. Now that would be rational.

Accusing someone doesn't draw attention away from yourself when you aren't under suspicion. Your attempt to pin suspicion on me has become my main reason for suspecting you...you are in fact trying to draw attention away from yourself.


And yes, it was rational. Mafia leave false clues in kill write ups. Anything as specific as "Wenax" has got to be a false plant. They do this to frame somebody or some group. An overeager mafioso could become impatient with no one picking up on the "clue" and use it to vote. It's quite a coincidence that the person you chose to have this clue point to is now in the lead as a result of your vote.

Now obviously there's no way of knowing whether you are a townie suckered into a mafia trap, or an overeager mafioso. At this stage it's worth voting someone if something makes it 20% more likely they are mafia. As I said before, your immediate attempt to cast suspicion on me makes your considerably more suspicious.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Accusing someone doesn't draw attention away from yourself when you aren't under suspicion. Your attempt to pin suspicion on me has become my main reason for suspecting you...you are in fact trying to draw attention away from yourself.


And yes, it was rational. Mafia leave false clues in kill write ups. Anything as specific as "Wenax" has got to be a false plant. They do this to frame somebody or some group. An overeager mafioso could become impatient with no one picking up on the "clue" and use it to vote. It's quite a coincidence that the person you chose to have this clue point to is now in the lead as a result of your vote.

Now obviously there's no way of knowing whether you are a townie suckered into a mafia trap, or an overeager mafioso. At this stage it's worth voting someone if something makes it 20% more likely they are mafia. As I said before, your immediate attempt to cast suspicion on me makes your considerably more suspicious.

As I noted before, the sensible thing (especially in the early stages) for the mafia to do is to keep a low profile. Fit in with the crowd. No 20% likelihood. The clues, planted or otherwise, serve no purpose at this first stage - there's too much randomness - but their inclusion may offer some guidance on the traps being laid, since people are rarely completely uninfluenced by their education/culture.

If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.

Maybe your accomplice got too many votes for comfort?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

As I noted before, the sensible thing (especially in the early stages) for the mafia to do is to keep a low profile. Fit in with the crowd. The clues, planted or otherwise, serve no purpose at this first stage - there's too much randomness - but their inclusion may offer some guidance on the traps being laid, since people are rarely completely uninfluenced by their education/culture.

If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.

No it wouldn't. Only posting a vote will often come back to bite you in later rounds.

Maybe your accomplice got too many votes for comfort?

Who are you referring to?

[Banquo's Ghost]

No it wouldn't. Only posting a vote will often come back to bite you in later rounds.

Ah, but one would have made it to the later rounds, when, by your own admission, the traps would have been laid.

Who are you referring to?

Aha! So you don't deny having an accomplice?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Ah, but one would have made it to the later rounds, when, by your own admission, the traps would have been laid.

What traps?

Aha! So you don't deny having an accomplice?

Who are you referring to? Don't try and wiggle out of this.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Vote Summary (thus far):

19 = No vote as yet

5 = Abstain

3 = Sigurd Fafnesbane

2 = Hepcat, Silver Rusher, Reenk Roink

1 = Banquo's Ghost, Pannonian, Sasaki Kojiro

2 = Dead


Sigurd is currently facing the saw on a 10% plurality! We need to get some more people voting/posting.

[Kagemusha]

I think il undo the deed,while Sigurd is dangerous and should be put under the knife. Unvote Sigurd, vote Pannonian.There are many of you guys in stalemate there.Better start telling us why you are innocent.

[Sigurd]

Vote Summary (thus far):

19 = No vote as yet

5 = Abstain

3 = Sigurd Fafnesbane

2 = Hepcat, Silver Rusher, Reenk Roink

1 = Banquo's Ghost, Pannonian, Sasaki Kojiro

2 = Dead


Sigurd is currently facing the saw on a 10% plurality! We need to get some more people voting/posting.

Woah there...
I need to make a vote to get me in the clear.

Sasaki and BG are making a little white noise here.
But Sasaki's first vote is actually a good one.

Even if we take out the Wanax reference (which by the way is a good red herring) Hepcat did jump the bandwagon rather quickly.
Considering the thumb of rule that ‘third on the bandwagon is guilty’ I am inclined to vote Hepcat. AggonyDuck and Kage I believe was trying to be funny.. and yeah HAHA, good one guys. I am also voting Hepcat to make a tie in the votes so far.

Vote:Hepcat

[edit]: I guess I spent a little time in my editor and Kage put an unvote on me.
My vote still stands.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Adjusted Vote Count (think I messed up the last one except for Siggy's total)

Hepcat = 3 (Banquo, Csar, Sigurd)

Pannonian = 2 (Kagemusha, Kommodus)

Sigurd = 2 (Hepcat, Ignoramus)

Silver = 2 (Doc, Pannonian)

Reenk = 2 (Ag-Duck, X-man)

Banquo = 1 (Sasaki)

Sasaki = 1 (Prole)

Abstain = 5 (EMFM, Husar, Reenk, Seamus, trtwguru)

No Vote = 12 (Craterus, C-Rabbit, Destro, Disco, DivWin, Don C, Drisos, Dutch, Grace, Masy, Silver, Zal')

That should be complete as of 9am EST

[Kommodus]

I remember your plot from Mafia 3, but which game was CR a mafioso in? I tend only to closely follow the GH games (and skim through the Godfathers), so I'm not as familiar with the players' history.

Crazed Rabbit started to execute a plot as the serial killer in Gotta Have More Mafia, a game by Sasaki. (In fact, I was the first and only victim of his plan.) He didn't get very far because he attacked several Godfathers, who couldn't be killed during the night.

No worry. I remember GH chuckling at how poor Banquo (a noob like myself) got lynched in the first round of Mafia 3 for no particular reason, with his explanation that the first round only exists to get the game moving. Methods may have changed since, but, as I said, I tend only to follow the GH games, and you put an early stop to Mafia 4 without giving much in the way of discussion.

That's true. The first round is still almost always an essentially random lynching; even I don't have enough information to make a good guess. Nevertheless in games set up like this, it's still in our interest to lynch.

Glad to have you back, BTW. We missed you after Mafia III.

[Pannonian]

I think il undo the deed,while Sigurd is dangerous and should be put under the knife. Unvote Sigurd, vote Pannonian.There are many of you guys in stalemate there.Better start telling us why you are innocent.

I'm not quite sure what people can do at this stage to explain why they are innocent, unless there are specific accusations thrown around as with the Banquo-Sasaki dispute. Basically it's the first round, someone has to be executed (as GH said in his Mafia 3 roundup), and I posted a random vote in the absence of anything else. Do you have any better ideas?

[Proletariat]

I'd rather vote randomly for someone not yet involved.

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Craterus

[Dutch_guy]

As I noted before, the sensible thing (especially in the early stages) for the mafia to do is to keep a low profile. Fit in with the crowd. No 20% likelihood. The clues, planted or otherwise, serve no purpose at this first stage - there's too much randomness - but their inclusion may offer some guidance on the traps being laid, since people are rarely completely uninfluenced by their education/culture.

If I was mafia, it would be sensible for me to just post a vote for a few rounds. The quiet ones rarely come into the frame till much later. Or pick up on someone who was doing some thinking and change my vote.

This is what the mafia successfully did in the very first Mafia game, it worked that time - but never after that. Since that game, we have learned to involve lurkers by voting for them, or have them WoG[ed]. Also, a mafioso might target lurkers because they have no 'voting record' meaning the mafioso can target such a lurker with relative ease. As you don't confirm major players innocent, and get rid of an annoying towny who probably won't get lynched because of his inactive-ness.

It has been already said, but you shouldn't pay too much attention on the kill messages. They were used as frame methods in Mafia I, but again, we learned and didn't base our lynchings on them in the games to follow - as a mafioso can be completely random in his method, which can result in the lynching of innocents.

Also, casting a vote without a reason almost always makes you look suspicious. One's reasoning is quite important.

[Husar]

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Dutch_guy
Reason:

Also, casting a vote without a reason almost always makes you look suspicious. One's reasoning is quite important.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Dutch_guy, I think you need an addendenum to your rule about the posted reason actually making sense

[Dutch_guy]

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Dutch_guy
Reason:Also, casting a vote without a reason almost always makes you look suspicious. One's reasoning is quite important.

So, where was it I cast a vote without proper reasoning this game ?

Oh, wait.

I didn't.

[Banquo's Ghost]

OK, we have clearly established that I'm the clueless newbie.

I'll sit back for a few rounds and watch the adults play.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Kagemusha]

I'm not quite sure what people can do at this stage to explain why they are innocent, unless there are specific accusations thrown around as with the Banquo-Sasaki dispute. Basically it's the first round, someone has to be executed (as GH said in his Mafia 3 roundup), and I posted a random vote in the absence of anything else. Do you have any better ideas?

Thats good enough for now. My philosophy is simple come out on the open or die. There are now so many players that a Mafia lurking tactic seems pretty easy.Unvote Pannonian, vote Xiahou

[GeneralHankerchief]

Oh man this is going to be a fun one to tally.

Thanks a bunch to Seamus for giving that list of who voted for who, but I'll most likely double-check anyway.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Vote : Reenk Roink

Abstaining could be nice cover for a mafia - plus it denies the town of any clues based on voting patterns.

Crazed Rabbit started to execute a plot as the serial killer in Gotta Have More Mafia, a game by Sasaki. (In fact, I was the first and only victim of his plan.) He didn't get very far because he attacked several Godfathers, who couldn't be killed during the night.

Um, no, I killed disco first. But I got stemied by the theif and unkillable godfathers after killing you. Pity, I had this good story ready.

CR

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Reenk and hep are tied, someone break it. Vote for hep. Although reenk isn't a terrible choice.

[Reenk Roink]

Vote : Reenk Roink

What a surprise...

Abstaining could be nice cover for a mafia

How?

plus it denies the town of any clues based on voting patterns.

No, it shows a clear pattern of abstaining, and when a vote is made by an (courteous) abstainer, more information of value can be gleamed. Besides, there are several other abstainers, but I guess I was just the random selection...

Justifying a vote on me is impossible to do.

At least Xiahou did not give a reason (as there is no good one) and AggonyDuck is continuing a vendetta (I still can't believe you were the Mafia... that one bullet struck true ) from a long time ago.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Reenk and hep are tied, someone break it. Vote for hep. Although reenk isn't a terrible choice.

Your vote is registered for Banquo. Calling for a tie-break and refusing to do it yourself????

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki

[Masy]

Vote: Abstain

No suspicions as yet.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Your vote is registered for Banquo. Calling for a tie-break and refusing to do it yourself????

Unvote: Abstain
Vote: Sasaki

I like my vote on Banquo. There is still some time before voting closes. There are still people who haven't voted, I was addressing them. It isn't then end of the world if we go into a tie.

We really need to fix this current trend. If you vote, give a reason. A reason is in the format: You did X, and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...

Seamus's would be an example of "You did X" with the 2nd (most important) part left off.

As is, his post has as much merit as:

You used 4 question marks.

vote Seamus

not a vote btw

[Kommodus]

Um, no, I killed disco first. But I got stemied by the theif and unkillable godfathers after killing you. Pity, I had this good story ready.

Ah yes, now I remember. I'd forgotten about that.

Hm... looks like at least this time, Reenk is going to have plenty of choices to vote for!

[Husar]

We really need to fix this current trend. If you vote, give a reason. A reason is in the format: You did X, and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...

You posted(this is X), and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...you confuse people this way, say some people(I suppose this should be Y then).

Following this line of thought:

Unvote: Dutch_guy
Vote: Divine Wind

[GeneralHankerchief]

Btw, this may seem unfair but I would prefer it if we did not go into a tie for this round. You'll see why soon.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I like my vote on Banquo. There is still some time before voting closes. There are still people who haven't voted, I was addressing them. It isn't then end of the world if we go into a tie.

We really need to fix this current trend. If you vote, give a reason. A reason is in the format: You did X, and this makes you more likely to be mafia because...

Seamus's would be an example of "You did X" with the 2nd (most important) part left off.

Sasaki:

You are never more annoying than when you make sense.

Unvote: Sasaki
Vote: Abstain