Solid state drives on their way

[screwtype]

Imagine XP booting up in two seconds flat. Imagine your favourite game doing much the same. Imagine no more hard drive whine.

Well, you may not have to wait much longer. Samsung expects to be releasing the first affordable solid state drives next year, with available capacities up to 128Gig by early 2008.

IMO, this is shaping to be the next big revolution in computing.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4962

[ZombieFriedNuts]

cool me like

[Zalmoxis]

That's awesome! I should save up money and buy it when it comes out.

BTW, this is off subject but it made me think about it, didn't Microsoft want to keep your hard drive themselves, at their own location or something? I don't remember exactly but I want to know..

[screwtype]

BTW, this is off subject but it made me think about it, didn't Microsoft want to keep your hard drive themselves, at their own location or something? I don't remember exactly but I want to know..

I don't know

I made a mistake putting this story into the frontroom, It should have gone to the hardware folder. Any chance of some mod moving it please?

[Geezer57]

Hybrid hard drives (containing flash memory in addition to magnetic storage) are beginning to show up, currently targeted at laptops where the discs don't have to spin until the flash memory is full. See here: http://news.com.com/Samsung+hybrid+h...3-5683836.html

[screwtype]

Hybrid hard drives (containing flash memory in addition to magnetic storage) are beginning to show up, currently targeted at laptops where the discs don't have to spin until the flash memory is full. See here: http://news.com.com/Samsung+hybrid+hard+drive+works+while+it+sleeps/2100-1041_3-5683836.html

Yeah, I figured this technology would be taken up by laptops first, for the energy savings.

However, a hybrid like this could also substantially cut down on hard drive operation in a standard computer, although it remains to be seen whether this particular technology will actually make the jump.

I must say I'm a little suprised at the lack of interest in this topic though. Hard drives have long been the major bottleneck in computing, and the prospect of static hard drives promises to change that. It's also going to cut down the noise and the power requirements. I mean, we're talking about going from a mechanical data retrieval mechanism to a fully electronic one. To my mind, it's like finally leaving behind the dark ages of computing and truly moving into the modern era. In fact I've been looking forward to this sort of technology for years, but now that it's finally getting here I seem to be one of the few who's excited about it.

Maybe people will only begin to appreciate it once they start getting hold of it...

[Husar]

Well, that depends on price, reliability and capacity.
If they get some out for 500EUR with 60GB capacity, I surely won't get one...
I'll just wait and see how this turns out.

[screwtype]

I don't think reliability will be an issue. They should be more reliable and more robust than conventional hard drives. Capacity will be limited to begin with, but as others have pointed out elsewhere, you don't really need a huge capacity SSD to get most of the benefits. Even a drive just big enough to fit the OS and a few critical apps would make a big difference.

But price, yeah that will be important. Samsung says "affordable", but we don't know what that means exactly until they get here. Hopefully though the price will come down soon enough to make them affordable to everyone.

[gunslinger]

I've been wondering about this ever since USB flash drives started showing up. If you can make a 2gig flash drive, then how hard could it be to make a 100 gig one and call it a hard drive?

[Phatose]

You know, I remember seeing an anandtech review of an add in card that took old standard SDRAM and made it into a hard drive. I also remember that installing windows on to that made relatively little difference in boot times.

I've been wondering about this ever since USB flash drives started showing up. If you can make a 2gig flash drive, then how hard could it be to make a 100 gig one and call it a hard drive?

Much harder then you might realized. NAND/NOR flash can only be written to so many times before it fails. For things like transfering files and the like, where writes are relatively few and far between, that's no big deal. For something like a windows page file....well, it's a problem.

[screwtype]

You know, I remember seeing an anandtech review of an add in card that took old standard SDRAM and made it into a hard drive. I also remember that installing windows on to that made relatively little difference in boot times.

Yes but that could well be due to the limitations of the hard drive controller (ie transfer rate) rather than the SDRAM itself.

Of course, it is possible that instant load times will not significantly speed up all apps because some of them may need to do considerable work even after being loaded into memory. But most apps should get a noticeable speed boost.

NAND/NOR flash can only be written to so many times before it fails. For things like transfering files and the like, where writes are relatively few and far between, that's no big deal. For something like a windows page file....well, it's a problem.

The article said that the new drives will be able to be rewritten at least 10,000 times - which will actually give them greater longevity than conventional hard disks.

[Phatose]

The article said that the new drives will be able to be rewritten at least 10,000 times - which will actually give them greater longevity than conventional hard disks.

Yes, the new drives - they've solved the problem apparently. But that's why it took so long.

[Husar]

Well, 10000 times, I wonder how long that takes if your computer constantly writes to the HDD like it does when the RAM doesn't suffice?

[Geezer57]

You know, I remember seeing an anandtech review of an add in card that took old standard SDRAM and made it into a hard drive. I also remember that installing windows on to that made relatively little difference in boot times.

I seem to also remember that article - I think the card was PCI based, which meant it was limited to the max available speed over the PCI bus. That's probably why it wasn't clearly dominant over regular hard drives.

I also remember a local manufacturer here in the late 1990's that made RAM drives for Macs - I had a friend there who worked in Tech Support. Their RAM drives were insanely expensive, given memory module prices of the day, and transferred data over the SCSI bus. Which gave them low latency and higher transfer rates, but at the cost of volatility. It wasn't a solution the average home user could opt for.

[screwtype]

Well, 10000 times, I wonder how long that takes if your computer constantly writes to the HDD like it does when the RAM doesn't suffice?

From the article:

Is 10,000 writes enough? Absolutely, assures Barnetson. Samsung memory uses a technique called "wear leveling" to distribute the writes on a media through as many groups of cells as possible. The idea behind wear leveling is that all of the cells have approximately the same amount of writes to them, maximizing the life of the device. Consider a typical computer that writes 120 megabytes per hour to the hard drive. On a 32GB solid-state NAND drive, wear leveling would distribute this data over the entire drive -- it would take 267 hours to fill the device once. Even on a multi-cell flash device, at this rate it would take no less than 150 years to burnout all the bits on the SSD. Single-cell drives are capable of ten times as many writes.

[Phatose]

I seem to also remember that article - I think the card was PCI based, which meant it was limited to the max available speed over the PCI bus. That's probably why it wasn't clearly dominant over regular hard drives.

I also remember a local manufacturer here in the late 1990's that made RAM drives for Macs - I had a friend there who worked in Tech Support. Their RAM drives were insanely expensive, given memory module prices of the day, and transferred data over the SCSI bus. Which gave them low latency and higher transfer rates, but at the cost of volatility. It wasn't a solution the average home user could opt for.

It just used the PCI bus for power though - was used a typical hard drive connection.

[Spino]

I just love it when technology jumps ahead like this. I can't wait for the day when I can boot up my computer and not hear any clicking, scratching or humming sounds being emitted from the case. From power up to a fully loaded desktop in a few seconds sounds wonderful.

Flash memory technology is progressing at an impressive rate so it shouldn't be too long before solid state hard drives become commonplace on the market. I recently bought a Sandisk Cruzer Titanium 1gig USB flash drive during the Black Friday sales bonanza and wanted to put it to the test. It took me roughly 30 seconds to copy over 500megs of files! It's read/write speeds are rated roughly 15meg/sec! Amazing for a device that is about as long and wide as the keys it resides next to on my keychain.

Best thing about my new flash drive is it only cost me $15 after factoring in the sale, google checkout discount and rebate!

[BDC]

I think we'll see hybrid drives first. Say 1 terabyte of the usual disc-based drive, and a few gig of flash to store startup and commonly used files.

[gunslinger]

This has me thinking. . . Would it be possible to install programs on a flash drive and run them from there?

What about installing your O/S on a flash drive? Then when Windows gets buggy and full of spyware and other junk (as it always does at least once a year) you can just reinstall it on the flash disk, and not have to lose all your programs and files on the regular HDD.

Could you direct your internet browser to allow things downloaded from the net to ONLY be copied to a flash disk, completely forbidding access to the HDD, thereby eliminating the possibility of malware reaching the HDD?

[BDC]

This has me thinking. . . Would it be possible to install programs on a flash drive and run them from there?

What about installing your O/S on a flash drive? Then when Windows gets buggy and full of spyware and other junk (as it always does at least once a year) you can just reinstall it on the flash disk, and not have to lose all your programs and files on the regular HDD.

Could you direct your internet browser to allow things downloaded from the net to ONLY be copied to a flash disk, completely forbidding access to the HDD, thereby eliminating the possibility of malware reaching the HDD?

You can do that anyway. The issue is if you remove Windows, you lose all the registry stuff, and no programs work anyway. Good way of saving vital documents though.

[x-dANGEr]

You can always backup registry files.. But then it takes too much trouble IMO..

[Phatose]

Not to mention that bringing along the registry would likely also bring along the spyware and bloat that you were trying to get rid of by reinstalling in the first place.

[Spino]

You can do that anyway. The issue is if you remove Windows, you lose all the registry stuff, and no programs work anyway. Good way of saving vital documents though.

Not entirely true. I keep the OS, page file and a handful of small apps on a 5-10gig C: partition and put everything else on the D: partition. This makes nuking and reinstalling the OS as easy as can be. Best of all most programs (especially my beloved games with all my settings and saved games) will still run without a hitch.

[BDC]

Not entirely true. I keep the OS, page file and a handful of small apps on a 5-10gig C: partition and put everything else on the D: partition. This makes nuking and reinstalling the OS as easy as can be. Best of all most programs (especially my beloved games with all my settings and saved games) will still run without a hitch.

Really? I'm impressed. Had enough trouble getting them to run after that back in Windows95 days, surprised it still works. Good to know though. After my last reformat I did that cunning partition thing too...

[Spino]

Really? I'm impressed. Had enough trouble getting them to run after that back in Windows95 days, surprised it still works. Good to know though. After my last reformat I did that cunning partition thing too...

I don't want to be misleading so I must clarify that 'most programs' in my universe means games. Obviously the more complex utilitarian apps, especially those that incorporate themselves into the explorer shell or system tray, won't work using this method. You'd be surprised how many apps will continue to work though. However, it's been my experience that most games installed to the D: partition will continue to work even after you've nuked the registry and wiped the install info present on the C: partition. Saved games and personal settings aside this method saves you an entire evening (or two) of reinstalling and reconfiguring those multi-gig footprint games.

[Lemur]

As much as I would love a solid-state or hybrid drive, I hope they'll be able to address the issue of longevity. Last I checked, flash memory has a finite number of times it can be overwritten ...

[x-dANGEr]

As much as I would love a solid-state or hybrid drive, I hope they'll be able to address the issue of longevity. Last I checked, flash memory has a finite number of times it can be overwritten ...

Hmm..?

Is 10,000 writes enough? Absolutely, assures Barnetson. Samsung memory uses a technique called "wear leveling" to distribute the writes on a media through as many groups of cells as possible. The idea behind wear leveling is that all of the cells have approximately the same amount of writes to them, maximizing the life of the device. Consider a typical computer that writes 120 megabytes per hour to the hard drive. On a 32GB solid-state NAND drive, wear leveling would distribute this data over the entire drive -- it would take 267 hours to fill the device once. Even on a multi-cell flash device, at this rate it would take no less than 150 years to burnout all the bits on the SSD. Single-cell drives are capable of ten times as many writes.

[Husar]

Argh, wanted to wait for one of them hybrid drives, hoping they may be somewhat like two HDDs(like one flash HDD with say, 20Gb and 400GB usual HDD space) but looks like the flash is not even enough to install windows on and is used as temporary storage or so(maybe windows page file?).
Just read this blog entry from some Lenovo employees to see what I mean, looks like it's not worth getting one of these for now. Also makes me curious about how those flash-only drives will be and when they will come.

[Spino]

Now we're getting serious... SATA interface and 128gig capacity drives...

http://www.tgdaily.com/2007/01/17/adata_ssd_128gb/

A-Data shows off massive 128 GB solid state drive
Humphrey Cheung
January 17, 2007 13:10

Las Vegas (CA) - A-Data, a Taiwanese memory and peripheral company, has shown off prototypes of an upcoming solid-state drive for ExpressCard, IDE and SATA interfaces. Mainly built for notebook computers, the drives have capacities of 32, 64 and 128 GB.

The samples were shown to editors of the Inquirer website and they have a few pictures embedded in their article. The 32 and 64 GB drives come in 1.8" form factors while the 128 GB drive is in a 2.5" size.

Solid state drives promise to be much faster than traditional hard drives. Since there are no moving parts, the drives can reach sustained read speeds of 62 MB/s and have an access time in the sub-millisecond range. Regular hard drives typically have access times between 8 and 19 ms. In addition, SSDs promise to enhance battery life by a few minutes.

A-Data didn't specify the price, but did say that mass production should start late Q1. Both Samsung and Sandisk have announced competing 32 GB solid-state drives. Those will be several hundred dollars and we expect A-Data's drive to be at least one thousand dollars.

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=36841

Future of Flash revealed

CES 007 A-DATA in an SSD bonanza with 32, 64 and 128GB drives

By Theo Valich in Las Vegas: Wednesday 10 January 2007, 10:38

WERE YOU TO ASK what is the integral part of practically almost all CES products (CE, cars, PC – does not matter), there'a s one-word answer: Flash.
Flash memory is everywhere with firms handing out 1GB, 2GB and even 16GB drives willy-nilly.

But the best is yet to come. And Taiwanese memory company A-DATA is here to show off the next generation of flash hard drives.

A-DATA is currently sampling 32GB SSD in a ExpressCard size, 64GB in 1.8" notebook size and a massive 128GB one in 2.5" form with classical SATA-II connectors. Mass production is slated for late Q1 and early Q2, with availability expected to follow right after the start of production.

Pricing is as yet unannounced but the product manager for the line-up explained that with the prices of the SSD drives coming down by half, year on year, you might expect that late Q4 will bring a generation of sub-notebooks that could break even with the mobile hard drives. µ

[Caius]

Imagine XP booting up in two seconds flat. Imagine your favourite game doing much the same. Imagine no more hard drive whine.

Will the processors tolerate this new type of disks?Will the pc overheat very soon.Im not sure.