Netherlands law proposed to ban wearing burkas in public?

[Shahed]

hahahaha european, good one, it makes a big difference.

Yes, European.

Eventually the sterling and all related to it will be no more. Better buy into it while you can or the joke's on you. The US won't be Europe's master forever, and when it's power over Europe falls, where will the UK go then ? When there is no greater power to serve whose power will the UK serve ? Whose power will the 52 (or 53rd ?) American state serve ? Germany ? France or... the EU ?

HAHA ! Now that's a good one. ROFLMFAO.
Just kidding, don't take it too personally but it's funny you gotta admit.

[King Ragnar]

If a person was of British nationality, but a the child muslim immagrants, but fully British in their mannerisms etc. would they still be inferior?

No as long as they are muslim they are not british.

[Shahed]

LOL!

You are so lucky personal attacks are not permitted on this forum.
You'd be so toast, WTFPWNEDBBQ'ed my little racist friend. I would'nt even bother explaining thngs to you the way they are, you'd just get a very large dose of your own bitter medicine.

BTW as long as you're British, you're not European. (lol?)

[Tribesman]

I actually think this is quite an interesting statement...

If a person was of British nationality, but a the child muslim immagrants, but fully British in their mannerisms etc. would they still be inferior?

Did you miss it Scurvy ? that little gem has already been established , a muslim can never be British so must be inferior . Though I suppose if they rejected their parents religeon they could really be British . Unless of course their parents had some sort of unbritish skin pigmentation as that definately rules the kids britishness null and void .
Damn that integration can be hard when nonsensical barriers come into play .

[Shahed]

Tribesman this is for you, one of my cousins is Muslim (I am not btw). he's Canadian, 19 years old. He's studying in Oxford, England. I met him in London 3 weeks ago. We were in Trafalgar Square, and he saw the Canadian embassy across the square. He just stood there looking at the Canadian flag with admiration and a sparkle of love in his eyes, in silence for about 2-3 minutes. I did not interrupt his moment, and remained silent. I did not ask any questions, but he said it himself "I don't love any country more than Canada." He wanted to walk into the embassy and we walked up to the door, and then he stood there again in silence under the flag, before entering.

He is very patriotic, and he is very Canadian, and he is very Muslim. I'm sure he would fight for Canada in Iraq, Afghanistan or anywhere else, given the opportunity. And I strongly suspect he will join the Canadian Armed Forces for a few years to learn to defend what he loves.

I am of Asian descent but if it came to defending Europe, I would, and I will because I see threats to this nation primarily from within which need to be dealt with. I owe a lot to Europe where I found a home away from home. Where I found liberty, love and friendship and the freedom to live as I choose. And nobody is going to take that from me.

[Kralizec]

He's being sarcastic, Sinan.

[Shahed]

Yeah I know, wanted to prove his point.

[Mithrandir]

Back to the original topic in a constructive way or a magic dancing lock will appear.

[Kralizec]

Wow, that was fast.

The person who killed Van Gogh, the person who killed the politician

The politician (Pim Fortuyn) wasn't killed by a muslim, but by a left wing/environmentalist extremist.

[Stig]

Aye but there is one problem with Fortuyn, the "hype" was so big that the Dutch (my stupid countrymen) choose him as Greatest Dutchman Ever, I mean come on gete alive, there are far more important things.

Politicians want us to believe that the Islam is dangerous, get alive

[Shahed]

Actually I thought he was killed by a Muslim. See how freakin brainwashed I am ? So I learnt something new here.

[Stig]

No Muslims came after that, with Iraq and the attacks in Madrid and London and such ... blown out of proportion really, I mean are they more dangerous then the Christian Fundamentalists? I doubt it

[Kralizec]

No Muslims came after that, with Iraq and the attacks in Madrid and London and such ... blown out of proportion really, I mean are they more dangerous then the Christian Fundamentalists? I doubt it

If "they" is the part of the Dutch muslim community that is alienating themselves from our society and see no need to respect our laws, YES, they are more dangerous then whatever christian fundamentalists we have here.

I don't believe the problem is with Islam at large, though.

[Scurvy]

Did you miss it Scurvy ? that little gem has already been established , a muslim can never be British so must be inferior . Though I suppose if they rejected their parents religeon they could really be British . Unless of course their parents had some sort of unbritish skin pigmentation as that definately rules the kids britishness null and void .
Damn that integration can be hard when nonsensical barriers come into play .

No as long as they are muslim they are not british.

Hmm, so what if a white, british male converted to islam, would that make him inferior?

there is a huge difference between racism and nationalism

[Stig]

Try cursing in Staphorst or Urk

No people like Samir A. aren't dangerous, what can they do?
We Dutch don't need to be afraid of things like terrorists imo, why do you want to attack Holland? What is here?

The whole Muslims being evil things is blown out of proportion imo, when I see the American Christian Fundamentalists on tv I'm more scared. When I see Bush being fundamentalistic (Import, last weeks documentary on NL 2) I'm more scared.
We had some fundamentalistic channel on tv some time ago. They had a program in which some American thought he could "destroy" the evolution theory. I mean c'mon, there's proven the bible is wrong, accept that. One of his arguments for the evolution theory being wrong was that it was over 100 years old. How old is the bible m8?
Also he said the dating methods were wrong. He didn't study then, I did ... was quite funny to watch really, the amount of mistakes he made, and after that people believing him

[Redleg]

Hmm, so what if a white, british male converted to islam, would that make him inferior?

there is a huge difference between racism and nationalism

I doubt very seriousily if he knows the difference given his comments

[Upxl]

Aye but there is one problem with Fortuyn, the "hype" was so big that the Dutch (my stupid countrymen) choose him as Greatest Dutchman Ever, I mean come on gete alive, there are far more important things.

Seriously?
What about Karel Van Oranje?

No as long as they are muslim they are not british.

Ragnar,how old are you?

[Stig]

What about Karel Van Oranje?

who? some brother of William of Orange?

[Kralizec]

Try cursing in Staphorst or Urk

No people like Samir A. aren't dangerous, what can they do?
We Dutch don't need to be afraid of things like terrorists imo, why do you want to attack Holland? What is here?

The whole Muslims being evil things is blown out of proportion imo, when I see the American Christian Fundamentalists on tv I'm more scared. When I see Bush being fundamentalistic (Import, last weeks documentary on NL 2) I'm more scared.
We had some fundamentalistic channel on tv some time ago. They had a program in which some American thought he could "destroy" the evolution theory. I mean c'mon, there's proven the bible is wrong, accept that. One of his arguments for the evolution theory being wrong was that it was over 100 years old. How old is the bible m8?
Also he said the dating methods were wrong. He didn't study then, I did ... was quite funny to watch really, the amount of mistakes he made, and after that people believing him

If you think that islamic extremists are no threat, but are worried about what our "gereformeerden" might do to you, you have some...interesting world views

[Scurvy]

The whole Muslims being evil things is blown out of proportion imo, when I see the American Christian Fundamentalists on tv I'm more scared. When I see Bush being fundamentalistic (Import, last weeks documentary on NL 2) I'm more scared.
We had some fundamentalistic channel on tv some time ago. They had a program in which some American thought he could "destroy" the evolution theory. I mean c'mon, there's proven the bible is wrong, accept that. One of his arguments for the evolution theory being wrong was that it was over 100 years old. How old is the bible m8?
Also he said the dating methods were wrong. He didn't study then, I did ... was quite funny to watch really, the amount of mistakes he made, and after that people believing him

I think muslim extremists are more dangerous that christian extremists, there are more of them, they blow things up, and they do cause (more) visible harm,

it must be emphasized that it is muslim extremists, not muslims that are dangerous

[Stig]

I'm not afraid of the Reformed either, both pose no threat, but the Reformed are more active then the Muslims

[Adrian II]

AdrianII brought up "what kind of society we want to be". Again, I ask for some elaboration.

To me, a nation is a political project. Nothing more, nothing less.

I have always thought about it that way since my father gave me the 1882 Sorbonne lecture Qu'est-ce qu'une nation? by Ernest Renan to read. There are English translations available on various websites. In Renans view, a nation was not constituted by a (supposed) common past, but by the commitment to a common future.

In my own view, commitment to a common Dutch future means commitment to a political project based, roughly speaking, on democracy, justice and freedom from want.

Americans will easily understand this principle. They are an immigrant nation united by a Constitution more than by anything else, including any traditions inherited from the countries of origin. Look at the requirements for U.S. citizenship:

Requirements include:

• A period of continuous residence and physical presence in the United States
• An ability to read, write and speak English
• Good moral character
• Knowledge of the principles of the U.S. Constitution
• Favorable disposition toward the United States
• Oath of Allegiance

All these requirements stress the commitment of the new citizen to the common project, as well as his/her ability to participate in it (language, minimum legal knowledge). You no like, you no welcome.

I believe we should take a leaf or two from the American book, maybe adapt them but retain the main thrust. Regarding the subject of this thread, I think the Dutch political project excludes religious practices that result in the discrimination of women. Period. You no like, you go pray somewhere else.

EDIT

Dear Sinan, I am sorry I didn't catch your post (above) about your Canadian friend and yourself earlier. My sincere compliments. That is exactly the spirit I mean.

[Kralizec]

More active, in what respect? As of yet, I've never heard of any protestant christians sending large amounts of death threats to our politicians. Or making plans to attack nuclear power plants, or that sort of stuff.

That's probably because of our biased media, though

[Stig]

More active, in what respect? As of yet, I've never heard of any protestant christians sending large amounts of death threats to our politicians. Or making plans to attack nuclear power plants, or that sort of stuff.

Apart from Wilders I haven't heard of threats against politicians, or attack on nuclear power plants by muslims

[Scurvy]

. In Renans view, a nation was not constituted by a (supposed) common past, but by the commitment to a common future.
In my own view, commitment to a common Dutch future means commitment to a political project based, roughly speaking, on democracy, justice and freedom from want.

Surely a nation is constituted by a combination of the two? a common past brings people together, while a commitmnet to a common future binds them together... although i agree with the jist of it (i'v never heard of renan - but it sounds interesting to read)

I believe we should take a leaf or two from the American book, maybe adapt them but retain the main thrust. Regarding the subject of this thread, I think the Dutch political project excludes religious practices that result in the discrimination of women. Period. You no like, you go pray somewhere else.

In my opinion all religions discriminate. By creating a grouping as such a seperation is created between those of that religion and those who are not, if your going to have a plkitical projest, you can't have any religion at all...

[Kralizec]

Apart from Wilders I haven't heard of threats against politicians, or attack on nuclear power plants by muslims

Hirschi Ali.

And not just nuclear power plants.

[Shahed]

Dear Sinan, I am sorry I didn't catch your post (above) about your Canadian friend and yourself earlier. My sincere compliments. That is exactly the spirit I mean.

That's my cousin actually.

And thanks.

[Tribesman]

More active, in what respect? As of yet, I've never heard of any protestant christians sending large amounts of death threats to our politicians. Or making plans to attack nuclear power plants, or that sort of stuff.

That's probably because of our biased media, though

Well there are hundreds of examples this year alone of "Christians" sending death threats to politicians , the judiciary ,clergy ,entertainers , the police , pressure groups , scientists , college staff , medical staff ........

Then this month there was that other religeous group who following up on their death threats to shopkeepers , bus drivers , restauranteurs , schoolteachers ......this time decided it was the turn of politicians , the police , judiciary and gays .

In every branch together with the holy fruit you also find the religeous nuts .

[Cataphract_Of_The_City]

I guess the point is that immigrants are in their majority poor and therefore uneducated people. And uneducated people have a close connection with religion. And then you have those imams that preach all day about how the west will fall under the sword of allah and that muslims have to fight against the infidels. They preach these things in european land. They can preach these things because they are protected by the constitution of the state they live in and yet they attack it.

[Banquo's Ghost]

In every branch together with the holy fruit you also find the religeous nuts .

Almost signature material. A quote from Luke (journeyman's notes, later revised from first draft) perhaps?