Am I the only one finding the battles boooooooring?

[Akka]

Well, I have seen such 'gaps' occur sporadically during combat. But thus far, only in sieges. And I don't quite see how this detracts from the gameplay. Or from the overall perception of the game.

I can confirm that such huge spacing happens everywhere. It's simply that it seems that, to fight the "blob" of RTW, they made it so that fighting men need a large space aroung them.
Sure, no more "blob" due to this spacing, but no more mélée, which is quite ridiculous.

How does it detract from the gameplay or the game ?

Hu, well...

No mélée ?
In a medieval setting ?
Seeing basically 5-10 duels while it's supposed to be two formations of hundred of men crashing one into another ?
How can I immerse myself into an epic battle if there is such ridiculous spacing between my men (spearmen with a 5 m spaced formation ? Please !)

And as mentioned in your other thread, maybe this is the realistic approach ? I wouldn't know, and I don't know if it's for the best. But it doesn't ruin the battle for me, or for that matter the game, when I see this happen.

No, it's not realist. Formation of units have staying power partly because of the press and mass of men. Sure, you don't necessarily need the macedonian phalanx, with being men being shoulder-to-shoulder to maximize the "hedgehog effect" of the pike. But even the sword-wielding roman legion, with an admitedly "spaced" formation to allow men to fall back between the lines, weren't having such huge gap between them.
A formation so loose means that any tighter unit can simply trample them and push them off their way. It's not even a "loose" formation, damnit, it's a LACK of formation, they simply advance one by one in the direction of the duel and take their place each in turn. How this can be realist in any way when it comes to UNIT formations, movement and fighting ?

The initial charge is a bit less..hectic...than in Rome. But I think that's because you see less legionaries perform a jumping attack on an enemy. In M2 the units charge, and try to perform their killing moves. Which seems a lot less frantic then it happened in Rome.

Not only that, but the charges are much less powerful too, barely pushing men one step or two. I don't think that a cavalry charge should be absorbed so easily, and I don't think it's realistic for a horseman to have so little kinetic energy...

[adembroski]

Not only that, but the charges are much less powerful too, barely pushing men one step or two. I don't think that a cavalry charge should be absorbed so easily, and I don't think it's realistic for a horseman to have so little kinetic energy...

This has been driving me nuts. It drove me nuts in Rome as well. We've gone from an era when Infantry was dominant and Heavy Cav was an after thought to an era where Heavy Cav is everything and Infantry is a supporting unit, and it seems the developers got each backwards. Apparently stirrups don't count for much to this game.

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

It's not the *moving* of the units of walls that gets me, it's the *placement* of them on walls. RTW let you make nice neat rows, but M2 throws your guys into these disorganized, hideous, uneven rows of men that leave huge gaps in the formation. Putting units on walls feels like playing a game of Tetris, as I try to get all the neat little purple dots to line up correctly.

[Burns]

Charges seem to work fine for me. I saw a unit of peasants (not the best comparison I admit) vanish in the dust of a General's charge. Strill awesome I say. My biggest compaint right now must be city and castle assaults. Castle assaults are bugged without a doubt. The AI simply does not know how to attack the second and third walls without YOU having to make them. Today I say the damndest thing: The AI destroyed my first wall with 3 units of catapults. They just sat there till the end and came out to take the next set only when I was already reclaiming the first gate. Does it do that on Hard or Very Hard?

[littlebktruck]

I think charges are plenty powerful--I've done custom battles with knights (take your pick) against highland rabble on grassy plains and all but 2 of the rabble destroyed in the charge--the problem is that charges are prohibitively difficult to get right. I think it makes sense that orderly charges do the most damage, but it's just silly when the whole unit pulls up in the face of the enemy because they aren't in immaculate line.

[Mordred]

Despite some minor glitches I conclude that battles are much much more rewarding than RTW. Much of the moaning is a matter of taste.

AI shows some intelligence now, despite some minor glitches which have been in all Totalwar games, STW, MTW and RTW. It reminds a lot more of MTW and even the sheer frantic fun chaos of STW battles

AI pins down flanks, attacks with infantry as the first wave, backed by cav, uses it's shooters at the same time. Not always, but just as much as in MTW or STW.

AI attacks from behind, uses a second line of infantry to protect it's rear, unlike RTW where all you had to do was a wall of spears against your enemy and get behind it with cav, voila battle was over.

Siege battles are better and for the first time of all releases I like them. In STW, MTW and RTW I found them tedious boring.

AI uses arty with maximum effect and can be devastating. Made me loose some battles.

AI chooses better units, only if it is under economical pressure it starts to use cheaper units.

Yes there are some bugs, but I do hope one remembers the 1.5 hour battles of MTW where with a full stack army your were able to beat AI armies ten times as big as yours with an endless stream of reinforcements.
STW had some weird things too.

The stunning graphics do add an extra layer to the gameplay, the slow motion charges of which people complain are only if you follow a unit charging with the camera zoomed in. And I must say it looks extremely good, unlike RTW where you had unrealistic midgets on steroids running around the battlefield, their leggs moving as fast as Roadrunner. Whats the point of having nice graphics if you have to pause the game to have a look.

Maps are bigger and of more tactical depth, graphics here are again much better and do add to the game experience.

Weather has improved, some effects are stunning and finally the fogg which was so beautifull in Shoggy is back. Would like to see more weather influence though, heavy units sticking in mud, etc.

Controls are somewhat better, pace of battles are slower, something the vast majority of players wished for.

Would like to see more impact of fatigue on VH.

I do think some complaints and demands are rather unrealistic and will be a step back towards RTW. If you have been playing STW, MTW and RTW don't expect wonders from the AI. Nothing can replace the human brain.

MTW2 is an outstanding game, way beyond RTW which indeed was a bad game. Without the passive AI bug I would have lost many more battles.
Much more as in MTW or RTW anyway.

Want to have fun battles: play on VH, use minmal UI, switch of the radar, arrow markers and unit info caps, which leaves you much more guessing about what's going on.

Take a hilly map, switch on dense fog or heavy rain, take ten cav units, 50% horse archers and make sure the AI has a solid metal box of 15 units and horse archers. Havent had so much fun since Shoggy.

[Nakraal]

1. In RTW the kill rate was too fast and the unit which charged was usually the winner after 2 secs. I almost never dound my self watching the moral of a fighting unit.

In M2TW I must constantly keep an eye on the moral of fighting units and reinforce those that are wavering or shaken.

2. In RTW I had a home rule. Never pause the game to give the AI a brake.

In M2tw Iam many times forced to pause in many crucial moments.

3. In both RTW and M2TW I was disappointed when I was attacked. The disappointment source in RTW was that I was forced to play another battle knowing that I was just win while in M2TW I am frustrated that the computer keeps pressure on me.

4. The charge thing is true. In order to make a good charge you must move close your cavalry, organize it and then charge. If you just double click the enemy unit when the cav unit is 400 m away then the knights will just skirmish. But if you pay attention to your knights and organize them 50-60 meters before charging then the reward is a devastating sweep. It is realistic and when it is done right a knight unit can even take down almost entire units in 2-3 secs.