Impressions of a few Ranged units.

[PaulTa]

First of all, let me state that this is by no means the final word on the utility of the ranged units described below.

Ok, to keep all of the variables as close to the same as possible, I set up a custom match between one ranged unit and one unit of noble pikemen. Each of the ranged units was placed far enough away that the pikemen had to walk for a bit to be in the area of fire of the ranged unit. The map was a desert beach map to ensure that no trees or height advantage was taken into account. The ranged unit fired as many volleys as possible (with skirmish mode toggled off) and at the very last moment before impact was ordered to engage the unit of pikes. The ranged unit was left to engage in melee combat with the pikes until either of the units routed. The unit size is normal, which means that there were 60 ranged units and 75 pikemen. The difficulty of the battle was set at very hard, and not once did the unit of pikemen stop advancing.

Retinue Longbowmen-

The Retinue longbowmen managed to kill about 30-35 pikes before engaging in melee, where the Retinue Longbowmen then dispatched the entire unit of pikes with minimal losses. The real glory of this unit is the fact that it is armor piercing, coupled with a high rate of fire.

Scot's Guard-

The scot's guard unit faired quite well, taking out about 35 pikes before engaging in melee. The pikemen were then dispatched of with losses only totaling 3-4 for the Scot's guard. As with the longbowmen, the scot's guard couples armor piercing with a high rate of fire.

Muslim Archers-

The muslim archers did suprisingly well in the ranged portion for not being an armor piercing archer unit, killing about 25 pikes before engaging in melee. Here is where they suffered. The muslim archers managed to win, but with only 25-30 units left.

Nord bowmen (correct name? Last tech danish archer unit)-

The Nord bowmen only managed to kill off about 20 pikes before engaging in melee, where I hoped they would then make up for the lousy ranged kills. Unfortunately, the Nord bowmen only managed to win by a small margin, leaving about 20 of them left, some about to die. I get the feeling that the killing of the enemy general is what saved these units, rather than their melee prowess.

Pavise Crossbow Militia-

The Pavise Crossbow militia actually managed to fair better in melee than they did in ranged combat, which I attribute to their slow reload time. In comparison to gunpowder units, which also have slow reload times, the crossbow militia killed only about four or five units a volley. After claiming about 25 pikes in ranged combat, including a last second volley, the crossbowmen managed to claim the majority of kills and eventually their victory in melee. For factions without armor piercing bowmen though, I would suggest them against heavily armored targets.

Hand Gunners-

The hand gunners only managed to kill about 20 pikes, which is probably due to their extremely short range. Unfortunately, their melee ability is no compensation. They were actually dispatched by the Pikemen, and the pikes were left at a little under half strength. The hand gunners don't fire in unison, the reload time is terrible, and the accuracy of the unit is the final death blow. I would not recommend these guys for anything more than role-playing value.

Arquebusiers (sp?)-

Longer range than the hand gunners yielded better results with the ranged portion of combat, not to mention the first appearance of unity in firing. The Arquebusiers managed to claim about 35-40 kills before engaging in melee, where they then suffered. Oddly enough, despite terrible stats, the Arquebusiers managed to put up a decent fight before finally being routed.

Musketeers-

Coupling the long range of a crossbow with the firepower of the arquebusier, the musketeer performed quite well in my tests. Not only were they relatively accurate, but they also fired in unison and managed to reload at what appeared to be a faster rate than the arquebusier. The musketeer claimed about 40-45 kills before engaging in melee, where the damaged and disheartened pikes were actually routed.

Janisary Musketeer-

Now here is the king of the ranged world. Despite the unfortunately dismal hand infantry line-up of the Turks (something I deem necessary for an enjoyable Total War experience), I am actually compelled to play and camp out in waiting for these war machines. They fired in perfect unison for the first few volleys, with only a few deviations in unison after about three or four shots. They reloaded at a good speed, and were also relatively accurate. This doesn't even mention the fact that their higher damage per volley makes them king. The pikes advanced, at lost a steady 7-10 men per volley. Upon reaching the J. Musketeers, the pikes only numbered about 7-10 strong, where the decent melee stats of the J. Musketeers made quick work of them. This unit lost two men in the melee, and still had about two thirds of it's ammunition left.

Reiters-

My only horse archer that I'll review. The reiters have almost the exact same problems as hand gunners, only they're mounted, giving them a bit more flexibility. I still wouldn't dedicate any time to this unit unless for role-playing value. For results, see hand gunner.

Overall- If you're playing england or france, your obvious choice for archers is longbowmen and Scot's guards. The French, until reaching scot's guards, will have to be satisfied with crossbowmen. If you happen to be fortunate enough to have a faction with musketeers, I would honestly recommend them above even longbowmen. The unit that really takes the cake at the end of the match is obviously the Janisary Musketeer, a unit both capable in melee and more than adequate for killing off anything that moves in ranged. The only counter I could see for Janisary Infantry is either A) More Janisary Infantry, or B) a cavalry unit that can make it through the hail of bullets fast enough to still do damage afterwards. Fortunately, a steep cost will hopefully keep the multiplayer realm from being overwhelmed.


I know that some of you will probably mention my lack of a description for units like peasant archers or militia crossbowmen. To be entirely honest, at the early stages in the game you have about one choice for archers anyways, so there isn't really any major fretting over what to pick. Most of the above units are only around when a player has at least a small variety of units to pick from in the ranged category.

If anyone wants to review the performance of Byzantine Guard archers, be my guest. Unfortunately the lack of any gunpowder for the byzantines means that I probably wont do any more with them than conquer Constantinople.


On a lighter end note, feel free to test this out yourselves and post your results. I only tested each a few times, so it is entirely possible that an above unit didn't function correctly the few times I used it. Also feel free to post any reviews for horse archers.

[Monarch]

Um, nice, but from an mp perspective your not taking into account costs (turkish musketeers are way too expensive to get very many) and defense vs other arrows (for archer shoot outs at say the start) where pavise crossbowmen are just awesome and hardly lose a man.

IMO, in terms of cost and ability to kill other missile units whilst not dying easily themselves, the Spanish Musketeers are easily the best ranged unit.

[econ21]

Interesting results. If PaulTa or anyone else wants to do more of this kind of thing, you could post it in the battle research thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72168

[Scipio Africano]

You forgot the French ultimate Ranged unit Aventuriers which should be at least as deadly as the Scots Guard.

[PaulTa]

You forgot the French ultimate Ranged unit Aventuriers which should be at least as deadly as the Scots Guard.

Actually, I excluded them because it was late and I couldn't remember how to spell their names. They killed less pikes than the scots guard on the ranged portion, and did worse in melee.

[PaulTa]

Um, nice, but from an mp perspective your not taking into account costs (turkish musketeers are way too expensive to get very many) and defense vs other arrows (for archer shoot outs at say the start) where pavise crossbowmen are just awesome and hardly lose a man.

IMO, in terms of cost and ability to kill other missile units whilst not dying easily themselves, the Spanish Musketeers are easily the best ranged unit.

"Fortunately, a steep cost will hopefully keep the multiplayer realm from being overwhelmed."

[BazOokaKing]

Overall- If you're playing england or france, your obvious choice for archers is longbowmen and Scot's guards.

Personally I have found that Sherwood archers have a better kill rate than normal and Retinue longbows. You never tested them though...

[PaulTa]

Actually, I decided to give them a test today. They perform amazingly well, and I'd put them up as the runner up to Janisary Musketeers.

[Blood Bound]

I think they balanced ranged units fairly well.

[Jagger]

IMO, ranged weapons are a bit too effective. In my games, they definitely dominate battles if you have enough of them with some protective infantry. When we get our modding tools, I am going to reduce their effectiveness to allow infantry to play more of a role. Might help with the AI difficulties with bowmen some as well.

[mcantu]

Could you do the tests at Medium difficulty? This would be a more accurate way to see how the units are balanced, as no bonuses are given

[Maizel]

You should've included naffatum (sp)While short ranged 4 volleys of these guys kill of anything