Sniper !

[Shahed]

HOOOAAAHH !

Video time ! I scan around a lot for combat videos and I have some to share with you fellow military enthusiasts. Watch them but remember to keep your cool. You have no weapon and you are not in this war. It is however, very instructive and very educational look into the mind of the human being at war.

Great video ! USMC snipers in Vietnam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oz7V4KqNGB4

Live footage. Contractors in Iraq.
This guy must have got 50 kills in a hour, judging from his rate of fire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZDcTDetTS4

CNN report on the sniper war in Iraq.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acTC9kHZuLQ

WARNING!
The following is graphic footage from Iraq.

Do NOT attempt to watch if you are faint hearted.
Do NOT attempt to watch if you are sensitive to war.
In these videos you will see a reality of war, death. If you don't want to be exposed don't look.

Live footage, great too. The infamous Juba. I don't understand the music as I don't speak Arabic but I would like to know what they are chanting. So if anyone knows post up ! Some of the shots fail to kill the target but the vast majority are kills on impact or severely incapacitate the targets.

EDIT: Sorry these are 18+ movies so if want to watch them go to youtube.com and do a search "Juba 2-part 2" and then "Juba 2-part 3" I'm not sure if I can link to the pages with the video, but I guess I can link to the searches:

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...=Juba+2-part+2

The first part has almost no action and mostly propaganda, the 2nd and 3rd parts are more live on the ground.

If anyone has any other footage, from Iraq or otherwise, I'd be most obliged.

Salute !

[CrossLOPER]

That's.... some of the least graphic war footage I've ever seen. I'd rather watch Chechen rebels trying to figure out how to use the under barrel grenade launcher on an AK-74 in mid-battle than watch this, if I am looking for something "graphic". I mean no disrespect to those who present and/or died on those pieces of footage or those that lost a loved one or have been in Iraq, of course.

Seriously, I am very glad that they found a *much less* destructive way to fight. At least people who want nothing to do with the conflict won't get hurt, not that that's any relief or consolation those who actually get shot.

I find it interesting that the Juba leader at first begins talking of his exploits rather in earnest, and ends gloating near the end. Rear-end that he is, he has his points. Also, the Juba videos seem to be the best put together out of the whole batch.

The songs are of a religious nature.

[Shahed]

Well the graphic warning is necessary. You know how sanitised the society we live in is, some of us don't even know what death is, never seen a dead body in their lives. Not even a dead chicken, probably.

That guy is definetly not Juba. First of all soldiers who saw him know said in a German TV report that he's a thinner and shorter man. That is precisely why this fatter person is in this video. Very simple trick to mislead. He has valid points, and he shows they learn from the enemy, he's reading American books. Further, the reall Juba got fame after his 40th or so kill in Iraq. After that he created sniper teams, and this guy in the video he refers to them. After that he's become a myth, all the snipers are now Juba. All respect though, because in a combat sense he's one who should be on the American side. He knows what he's doing. Wonder if he could be bribed, but then you'd have to know his identity. Did you see that shot where the sniper waits for the target to come out of the crowd and then bang. Incredible shot. Range looks close, but still to take that shot and kill, that's a steady hand and mind.

Something else came to my mind. The soldiers need to be able to operate the 50 Cal from INSIDE the Hummer. They also need to be spending a lot less time standing around. There's some guys on there you almost feel sorry for em. You signed up and you knew this could happen so you can't blame anyone but they just lounging and whack, the war is over for them. It sounds silly, I know but I think the whole checkpoint, patrol thing needs to be revised somehow if further casualties are to be prevented.

Lastly imagine that, youtube has become an outlet for the opposing side to show their kills. googlevideo as well. You can't keep things hidden forever. About time people got to see what's happening down there.

[CrossLOPER]

Well the graphic warning is necessary. You know how sanitised the society we live in is, some of us don't even know what death is, never seen a dead body in their lives. Not even a dead chicken, probably.

Meh.

That guy is definetly not Juba. First of all soldiers who saw him know said in a German TV report that he's a thinner and shorter man. That is precisely why this fatter person is in this video. Very simple trick to mislead. He has valid points, and he shows they learn from the enemy, he's reading American books. Further, the reall Juba got fame after his 40th or so kill in Iraq. After that he created sniper teams, and this guy in the video he refers to them. After that he's become a myth, all the snipers are now Juba.

Hence the *Juba guy*.

All respect though, because in a combat sense he's one who should be on the American side. He knows what he's doing. Wonder if he could be bribed, but then you'd have to know his identity. Did you see that shot where the sniper waits for the target to come out of the crowd and then bang. Incredible shot. Range looks close, but still to take that shot and kill, that's a steady hand and mind.

Maybe, but that wouldn't help much. Public relations went down long ago. It's too much of a mess to fix much. The best that can be done is to give power to a native influential figure who is willing and able to work around the problems. No such person has presented himself yet. Not even a person half that caliber.

Something else came to my mind. The soldiers need to be able to operate the 50 Cal from INSIDE the Hummer. They also need to be spending a lot less time standing around. There's some guys on there you almost feel sorry for em. You signed up and you knew this could happen so you can't blame anyone but they just lounging and whack, the war is over for them. It sounds silly, I know but I think the whole checkpoint, patrol thing needs to be revised somehow if further casualties are to be prevented.

I did find it strange that the US soldiers were walking around and then began to run around aimlessly after a shot. Some did not realize there was a shot unless the target shouted. Indeed, as the *Juba guy* said, the soldiers who stood near the soldier who was shot ran away and left him there. Do they even get training or do they just slap a uniform on a twenty-year-old and give him a gun? If this is a case, it is no wonder that the war is going so poorly. I hope very much that this is not a case and that the sniper videos were simply the most convenient.

Lastly imagine that, youtube has become an outlet for the opposing side to show their kills. googlevideo as well. You can't keep things hidden forever. About time people got to see what's happening down there.

Was there even a doubt?

[Samurai Waki]

One of my buddies is a Marine Sharpshooter who lives on the base down in San Diego. He's got some crazy footage of him taking out Taliban soldiers in southern Afghanistan.

1.3 miles out Berett .50 Caliber, how many soldiers can you kill. 5 in 10 seconds, and when a .50 caliber bullet hits a target, it basically turns them into juicy bits. Rather aweful and shocking to look at, but fun nonetheless.

[Shahed]

Care to share ?

[Samurai Waki]

Care to share ?

It was his own personal video, that his spotter took. So no, unless I asked him to upload it on some site that would allow it, then you won't ever see it.

[BDC]

Ah war is so screwed up. Only time it's considered 'fun' to shoot people who can't even see you.

Beats cluster bombs and whatnot though. Be hard to demolish a bunch of civilian houses with a sniper rifle...

[IRONxMortlock]

5 in 10 seconds, and when a .50 caliber bullet hits a target, it basically turns them into juicy bits. Rather aweful and shocking to look at, but fun nonetheless.

Fun? FUN?! Seriously dude, what is wrong with you?

Those folks were real people. They had mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. Perhaps even children of their own. They may be enemies but the viewing of their gruesome deaths should not be considered "fun" by anyone who considers themselves human.

[Samurai Waki]

Fun? FUN?! Seriously dude, what is wrong with you?

Those folks were real people. They had mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. Perhaps even children of their own. They may be enemies but the viewing of their gruesome deaths should not be considered "fun" by anyone who considers themselves human.

Do not persist upon the notion of having a holier-than-thou attitude towards me. Perhaps, if you had actually read my comment, instead of saw the word "fun" and gasped then you wouldn't charge head long into a nonsensical argument.

As you might have noticed, I said it's quite aweful and shocking to look at. I meant this seriously, and I when I wrote but fun nonetheless it was a whimsical comment. My guts churned for days after watching that, but if you think me saying fun is bad, then perhaps you don't understand war and humanity as well as you might think.

My buddy (the sharpshooter) and his spotter, and three other marines were laughing at this stuff, and I don't mean like little titters, or chuckling, I mean roll on the floor laughing as these guys exploded. In war you can laugh at your enemy, because they're gonna do the same if they hard enough.

[CrossLOPER]

Fun? FUN?! Seriously dude, what is wrong with you?

Listen, you're going to hear some crazy stuff here. Interpret at your own discretion, OK?

[Husar]

Fun? FUN?! Seriously dude, what is wrong with you?

Those folks were real people. They had mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. Perhaps even children of their own. They may be enemies but the viewing of their gruesome deaths should not be considered "fun" by anyone who considers themselves human.

I agree.

[BigTex]

Fun? FUN?! Seriously dude, what is wrong with you?

Those folks were real people. They had mothers and fathers, brothers and sisters. Perhaps even children of their own. They may be enemies but the viewing of their gruesome deaths should not be considered "fun" by anyone who considers themselves human.

You may have missed the portion of the text were he mentioned that they were at war. That same person they were laughing at would have done the same to them regardless of the mothers fathers and brothers they had. You can also bet that they would also have been laughing at them.

1.3 miles out Berett .50 Caliber, how many soldiers can you kill. 5 in 10 seconds, and when a .50 caliber bullet hits a target, it basically turns them into juicy bits. Rather aweful and shocking to look at, but fun nonetheless.

Heh, a supersonic .50 cal round can cause the chest cavity to explode. Ironically the faster the bullet the less chance it has of even making an exit wound in the body.

[Husar]

You may have missed the portion of the text were he mentioned that they were at war. That same person they were laughing at would have done the same to them regardless of the mothers fathers and brothers they had. You can also bet that they would also have been laughing at them.

And the fact that the other person is wrong makes it any better?
Besides, I wouldn't bet on that.

[Shahed]

Jeez seems my graphic/war warning was not enough.

You guys don't even know why some people join the military. You think they wanna be some hero and have high moral values and all that. Get real. They join and when war starts it's all about killing. A kill is a kill. Period. What matters most in the military ? Killing the enemy is what matters. You think people don't cheer when the kill an enemy ? Of course they do. They dying to kill stuff.

Chivalry is always good but it's the exception not the norm.

Hey I'd like to see the 0.50 Cal video, please.

No offence, don't mean to sound harsh.

I'd rather see the reality for what it is. It's not 'fun' for me to watch but I wanna see the real deal. I'm not going to close my eyes and hide under the blanket. If people can beat a 52 year old disabled man then shot him dead, rape 14 year old girls etc.. then why be so shocked about laughing at the enemy when they got WTFPW'edBBQ'ed ? I would'nt do it but people do. That's war. Much worse happens than laughing, like for example laughing at the guy who's little girl you just raped, or who's grandfather you just killed. People who think the majority of the military is about being good and all that, need a reality check.

Anyway the topic is about discussing those videos, sharing any others you may have. And lastly to comment on the skills and techniques used in those videos. This is not a discussion about morality, but about military tactics. And there is nothing immoral about sniping. Also I wanted to point out that the insurgents are'nt that dumb as they are made to look, after all. How come we don't see much of this on CNN and BBC ? Can't stomach our own guys getting killed, it seems.

[Banquo's Ghost]

You guys don't even know why some people join the military. You think they wanna be some hero and have high moral values and all that. Get real. They join and when war starts it's all about killing. A kill is a kill. Period. What matters most in the military ? Killing the enemy is what matters. You think people don't cheer when the kill an enemy ? Of course they do. They dying to kill stuff.

Your cyncism has some truth in it, but not much. People join the military for many reasons, and few join to kill. There used to be a time when this tendency would be identified in training and efforts made to control it. One requires personnel to follow orders, not to kill. Those orders may indeed require killing, but in many cases they do not - or require moderation in the application of lethal force (ie just the target guys, not everything larger than a gopher).

What matters most in the military is achieving the mission, and to the ordinary soldier, coming home alive with his mates.

People still joined the services when there was no war. Why?

Don't make the mistake of thinking war is like a video game, and whilst you might see veterans celebrating death on occasion, you should not. You should also be aware that many more veterans do not celebrate in such a way - but then they don't have videos to share, do they?

When we managed to kill an Irish terrorist, emotions could range from glee to profound sadness. I wonder if you can imagine why the spectrum?

[Shahed]

Maybe you are talking about the British Army, or some other... (oofff looking for a diplomatic word)...force. I don't know. The British are more 'professional' as in a job and moral sense, or so we are led to believe. The British Army has a much longer history and experience in warfare. They should know something from it, and they do I'm sure.

I am talking about the US Army, mainly.

Soldiers are trained to follow orders and KILL.
They have to be able to kill, they cannot hesistate and IMO the US Army does this job very well.

I understand the spectrum. You feel joy because you eliminated an enemy, but sad because you killed him. Killing an enemy but part of yourself as well. If this same spectrum is in the same person IMO that's a good thing.

Not everyone is as noble or healthy as you, not everyone feels the same as you. But you know that already.

edit: LOL and that's a nice quote, in your signature.



Salute !

[Redleg]

Maybe you are talking about the British Army, or some other past it's due date force. I don't know. I am talking about the US Army, mainly.

Then once again you would be incorrect.

Soldiers are trained to follow orders and KILL.

I was trained, and trained my fellow soldiers to accomplish the mission assigned to them. Be it movement, or artillery fire on a target.

They have to be able to kill, they cannot hesistate and IMO the US Army does this job very well.

Only partily correct. You have to be able to perform the mission which often requires one to fire a weapon at a target.

I understand the spectrum. You feel joy because you eliminated an enemy, but sad because you killed him. Killing an enemy but part of yourself as well.

The same emotional spectrum runs in the United States Military also. Bad press gets far more press then what emotions on the battlefield are actually going on.

For instance my brother is currently in Iraq. When I speak with him he is never gleeful about the missions he has had to conduct. Only grateful that he and his men have returned from their mission.

[Shahed]

I edited some of my more 'arrogant' language. You might wanna re-read if interested.

Well I disagree, but anyway.

I'd be primarily concerned with getting the mission accomplished but I would be concerned thereafter with getting home. AND inflicting as much destruction as I can inflict on the enemy.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Maybe you are talking about the British Army, or some other... (oofff looking for a diplomatic word)...force. I don't know. The British are more 'professional' as in a job and moral sense, or so we are led to believe. The British Army has a much longer history and experience in warfare. They should know something from it, and they do I'm sure.

I am talking about the US Army, mainly.

My own experience is from the British Army, and latterly the Irish Defence Force. The IDF clearly has a very different mandate to either the UK or the US military.

Having said that, I do not believe that the US military is any less professional, and certainly not less in a moral sense. I would personally deplore the fact that many US officers and men did not fasten their top button (a flogging offence in my day ) but that's about all. The US Army is trained for a different and wider range of actions because of the political reach of the country.

Soldiers are trained to follow orders and KILL.
They have to be able to kill, they cannot hesistate and IMO the US Army does this job very well.

Redleg has answered these points in the way I would have done.

I understand the spectrum. You feel joy because you eliminated an enemy, but sad because you killed him. Killing an enemy but part of yourself as well. If this same spectrum is in the same person IMO that's a good thing.

Not everyone is as noble or healthy as you, not everyone feels the same as you. But you know that already.

Aside from the vagaries of birth, nobility is not a notion I would embrace for myself. There are actions that haunt me still. Your interpretation of my question is the easy answer, and it does not entirely hold true. For example, we would feel something akin to ecstatic glee at the elimination of a man who was a brute and a danger to my troops and his own community. But I was also in tears once having killed a very effective enemy, but whom I knew to be acting for his highest ideals of republicanism (pretty rare people then). As an Irish Republican myself, and with a history of rebellion against the very army I now served, who was I really weeping for? And can you now tell why I joined the British Army?

Humans are so wretchedly complicated, aren't they?

edit: LOL and that's a nice quote, in your signature.

Thank you. I am most proud that Navaros felt it necessary to copy the style and formatting to make his anti-evolutionary signature. I suspect Chuck D would have felt proud.

[Redleg]

I edited some of my more 'arrogant' language. You might wanna re-read if interested.

Well I disagree, but anyway.

I'd be primarily concerned with getting the mission accomplished but I would be concerned thereafter with getting home. AND inflicting as much destruction as I can inflict on the enemy.

Your leaving off on of the primary causes of emotional conflict that a soldier at war often has, and faces for many years afterwards.

That of guilt. There are many different levels and types of guilt a soldier deals with after warfare. There is a reason why snipers often have one of the highest sucide rates after the war is concluded.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

One of my buddies is a Marine Sharpshooter who lives on the base down in San Diego. He's got some crazy footage of him taking out Taliban soldiers in southern Afghanistan.

1.3 miles out Berett .50 Caliber, how many soldiers can you kill. 5 in 10 seconds, and when a .50 caliber bullet hits a target, it basically turns them into juicy bits. Rather aweful and shocking to look at, but fun nonetheless.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, however, I believe you are exaggerating the distance, the time, the number of soldiers, or a combination of the above. My reasons are a matter of logic, and if you can give me proof to the contrary I will accept it.

1) The record for the longest confirmed kill with a sniper rifle is 1.5 miles, or 2430m. The second place record is 2,250m.

2) 1.3 miles = 2090m

3) The record holder took three shots to achieve a kill.

4) A .50 was also used in the record holding kill.

5) It seems beyond logic that somebody could hit five individuals in ten seconds at over two kilometers, when the record which took three shots to achieve is just above that.

Again, no offense to you or your friend, and I am not objecting to his skill as a sniper. I simply want to know if you are exaggerating in any way.

[Goofball]

It was his own personal video, that his spotter took. So no, unless I asked him to upload it on some site that would allow it, then you won't ever see it.

Hmmm. I believe I have seen the footage you are talking about. It was footage that was taken through a sniper's spotter scope showing .50 cal rounds devastating their human targets. Except it was emailed to me and described as "footage taken by a Canadian JTF2 sniper's spotter in Afghanistan."

Something smells a little fishy there...

[Myrddraal]

You may have missed the portion of the text were he mentioned that they were at war. That same person they were laughing at would have done the same to them regardless of the mothers fathers and brothers they had. You can also bet that they would also have been laughing at them.

IMO you've missed the point. It isn't our place (here on this forum) to laugh at death, wether they are at war or not. This isn't a computer game with ultra-realistic graphics.

I shoot for sport - small bore rifle at 25 yards only so far, but I hope to move onto longer range large bore if I can get a friend to coach (or spot if you like) for me.

One can admire a guy's skill without calling the effect on the human target 'cool'.

I look forward to too much in my life to be so casual about death.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Hmmm. I believe I have seen the footage you are talking about. It was footage that was taken through a sniper's spotter scope showing .50 cal rounds devastating their human targets. Except it was emailed to me and described as "footage taken by a Canadian JTF2 sniper's spotter in Afghanistan."

Something smells a little fishy there...

More or less my point. It just dosen't seem...right, somehow.

[Samurai Waki]

I'm not saying I don't believe you, however, I believe you are exaggerating the distance, the time, the number of soldiers, or a combination of the above. My reasons are a matter of logic, and if you can give me proof to the contrary I will accept it.

1) The record for the longest confirmed kill with a sniper rifle is 1.5 miles, or 2430m. The second place record is 2,250m.

2) 1.3 miles = 2090m

3) The record holder took three shots to achieve a kill.

4) A .50 was also used in the record holding kill.

5) It seems beyond logic that somebody could hit five individuals in ten seconds at over two kilometers, when the record which took three shots to achieve is just above that.

Again, no offense to you or your friend, and I am not objecting to his skill as a sniper. I simply want to know if you are exaggerating in any way.

Well they say that men lie the most after a day of hunting/Fishing.

I wasn't there so I can't tell you definate details, suffice it say, that yes it was indeed him doing the killing, and one other guy and his spotter. So perhaps it was more like 2-3 kills each in 10 seconds. But it was originally a debrief video, that he managed to snag on his way out of Kabul. I think he might watch it to recant the memories of being there (I don't know why you would want too). But I'll tell you, that most Marine Marksmen salivate at the chance to kill an enemy. They go insane, the war in Iraq moves too fast for most Marine Snipers, because of the heavy use of Mechanized Units, but Afghanistan is different, the terrain relies less on Tanks and APCs and more on Infantry, so Marines would prefer to go there instead.

[spmetla]

Well, I've finally got around to see these Juba videos.

Firstly @ crossLOPER
The American's are running around because as you saw someone got shot. Put yourself in the situation before you critisize.
Hearing:
Our Helmets like all do, restrict hearing, it's easier to hear from the front. It's mandatory for all troops to wear earplugs when 'outside the wire', this is done because of the heavy use of RPGs, IEDS, VBIEDS, and mortars which as you can imagine will cause permanent hearing loss when used if nothing else. There's also a lot of ambient noise, the diesel engines of the Humvees, radio chatter, civilian personnel and vehicles all combine to hinder the hearing of the soldier. So when a single shot goes off generally you haven't a clue in the world as to where it came from. In my year in Iraq a lot of potshots were fired at me, unless the shot is damned close it's very difficult to place where the shooter is.

As for the soldiers running around not knowing what to do, well when you don't know where a shot came from you don't know where it's safe to be. Anywhere but where you just were seems like the best place to be, especially if the guy right next to you got shot. If you think it's cowardly to seek cover for yourself before tending to a wounded/dead buddy then by all means go out there and be a hero for yourself. The clips are only a few seconds long for each victim so undoubtably you're missing the part where they drag the guys to cover and give buddy aid. American doctrine is to never leave a fallen comrade behind and we try to live it as best as possible but putting yourself in the line of fire where someone just got shot a half second before isn't too bright. It's also not what we're trained to do, we take cover when we recieve fire as does every military on Earth.

While it twists my stomach everytime I saw a soldier get shot in these clips I have to say I'm glad to see that our armor is having good effect. Although a lot of soldiers simply dropped (presumeably dead), a lot were obviously wounded, how serious no one can tell from these clips.

As for the trend toward snipers I have to say it's only to be expected. When a force like the US Army can dominate any normal fire fight it's only normal for a foe to resort to different tactics. IEDS, snipers, mortars, and hasty ambushes all represent this. I'm worried that they're using snipers more often for obvious reasons and there's little that can be done about. The CROWS system for remotely manning the turrets of humvees is slowly being implented and those gunners represented a large number of the victims of Juba's snipers. As for dismounted soldiers not much can be done, too much armor makes a soldier combat ineffective. All we can do is hope that the residents in these areas don't allow snipers to operate there. You can be damned sure the everyone in the neighborhood knows who fired what where, if only they'd tell the coalition forces that way these snipers can be found.

And to those of you that are against seeing these videos just cool it a bit. As a US soldier I hate seeing comrades being killed, especially up close like Juba's video but it's no different then when we watch AC 130s blowing up Taliban in Afghanistan or Apache's shooting guys planting IEDs at night. I know that the US soldier for a lot of us is 'our side' but that doesn't make him more sacred then the next man.

As for Juba himself, he seems to be a damned good shot, especially against the guys in turrets. You can see that he has a bit more trouble against the guys that are dismounted, no doubt because they are moving around. I'm really curious at what distance he's shooting at, my guess would be usually around four to five hundred meters but who knows.

And Wachizashi perhaps you should spell it "awful to look at" instead of "aweful", you might get the wrong idea across.

EDIT:
Oh, and as for the American soldier being portrayed as supermen it was actually a common idea for the Iraqis. Having lost Desert Storm so quickly they were expecting, as some of my Iraqi friends told me "That US Soldiers were all gigantic Arnold Schwarzeneggars/ Stallones that could crush people's skulls with their bare hands", lots of the teenagers were surprised and rather disappointed when they saw that they were beaten twice by people that really weren't much different than them, just really well equiped.

[CrossLOPER]

spmetla,

While it is important to take cover, I question the initial setup that is present when the shot is fired. There appears to be no protocol to a sniper. The soldiers are ridiculously easy targets. Also, I was referring to several shots of the soldiers staring at their recently shot fellow soldiers as if they could not care less (most likely not the case, but it seems odd).

As for the sniper, it is a general rule for snipers to change their positions or withdraw a soon as their kill is made. Firing more than one shot puts the sniper in jeopardy as an experienced sniper or even a spotter on the opposing force can quickly locate him and begin an attempt to neutralize the threat, in which case the sniper's mission is no longer worth the risk. The Juba snipers seem to take the withdraw option in pretty much every case. I'm not trying to be crude, I'm just trying to point out that the soldiers seem totally untrained in dealing with the situation.

[spmetla]

I understand where you're coming from but there really isn't anything that can be done. If you don't know where the shot came from you can't engage the sniper. Best thing is to get your comrade and haul balls out of there. In a conventional war away from urban areas, the area from where the suspected sniper fired from would probably be covered in massive volumes of all available fire power, clearly something not feasible here if civilian casualties are to be avoided.

As for the staring it's probably shock/surprise. As you can see most of the soldiers seem a little at ease because they've been doing patrols day in and out for a while. Civilians in the area usually give the feeling that no IEDs or major attack will happen so you feel safer. I can't vouch for what the soldiers initial inaction was but I assume it's shock/surprise because that's what happened to me the first time I was shot at, thankfully for our unit only one guy was shot and his helmet completely stopped the bullet and prevented injury (also a humvee gunner).

EDIT:
As a future Lieutenant I'm curious if you've got any solutions to snipers. The soldiers still need to accomplish their missions which for most of these guys looks like it's presence patrols. Presence patrols consist of primarily driving around showing that the US is there to protect the Iraqis, give out food and what not, and collect intel from compliant Iraqis.
The only solution I've got is get the locals enough on your side that the make the environment hostile to anti coalition forces and that we protect them from the wrath of those same people.

I'm completely open to suggestions though.

[CrossLOPER]

However you call it... and no, you're not getting any of my ideas. Sorry.