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Thread: Did they actually look like that?

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    Master of Puppets Member hellenes's Avatar
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    Default Did they actually look like that?



    Question...
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    The best choose one thing in exchange for all, everflowing fame among mortals; but the majority are satisfied with just feasting like beasts.

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    Bopa Member Incongruous's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    I'm guesing Hospittler of one of the higher positions?

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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    I would say that its a little bit overstylized Teutonic knight of high rank.Here are couple of his his orderly brothers:

    Ja Mata Tosainu Sama.

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    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    It seems to be Great Master of teutonic order. But I think that in reality he didn't have that cross over helmet.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    There was one phase when it was fashionable to have, well, pretty much anything atop your great helm as decoration. As such paraphenelia was normally made out of something like papier-mache or somparable materials the effect, one way or another, was purely cosmetical.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

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    Professional Cynic Member Innocentius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    To give a simple answer: No.

    Decorative things like the "crown" atop the helmet were only worn in tourneys and during other social occations.
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    Master of Puppets Member hellenes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Well except the crown cross thing on the helmet is the rest historically accurate?
    Impunity is an open wound in the human soul.


    ΑΙΡΕΥΟΝΤΑΙ ΕΝ ΑΝΤΙ ΑΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΟΙ ΑΡΙΣΤΟΙ ΚΛΕΟΣ ΑΕΝΑΟΝ ΘΝΗΤΩΝ ΟΙ ΔΕ ΠΟΛΛΟΙ ΚΕΚΟΡΗΝΤΑΙ ΟΚΩΣΠΕΡ ΚΤΗΝΕΑ

    The best choose one thing in exchange for all, everflowing fame among mortals; but the majority are satisfied with just feasting like beasts.

  8. #8
    Time Lord Member The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Well except the crown cross thing on the helmet is the rest historically accurate?
    Yes.

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    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    The shield looks a little small for a knight.
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    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Shield size varied according to custom, period, social standing, etc. For those fighting on horseback with the lance, the shields trended smaller as the quality and specialization of the armor trended higher, with the shield eventually disappearing altogether from high-end armors in the late middle-ages/early renn.

    Your Megaknight depicted in the first post is clearly kitted out for some form of ceremony/parade. Anything that could catch an edge -- particularly when you were trying to duck your head away from a shot -- and anything that could tangle you up/encourage a fall would be discarded in battle as a matter or practicality. The romans did the same thing with all the horsehair crests you see in movies, just a parade item.
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  11. #11
    Professional Cynic Member Innocentius's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor
    Yes.
    What?!

    No, it must certainly is not. To begin with, the fabric seems to be silk, there is some form of pattern on the lance, the knight wears colours (gold) that were not used by the Teutonic Knights, he's got a flag attached to the lance, the "clothes" worn by the horse are way over-decorated (as the clothes belonging to the knight), the knight wears some form of robe and on top of that: the horse has some really odd proportions.

    Perhaps, a teutonic knight in the mid-to-late 13th century (judging from the armour) could have looked like this at a tourney or parade or something (apart from the gold), so in a way it's all historically correct. But no knight would ever have dreamed of going to battle dressed like that.
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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    If I remember correctly, most Catholic Warrior Monks wore white with Red Crosses (See English Flag, not UK, for a look-alike).
    The Warrior Monks, despite their prowess on the Battlefield, wore chainmail, a large helmet like the one pictured (minus the bells and whistles) and a white tunic with a red cross on it. Most fought on horseback, but could dismount.

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    Shadow Senior Member Kagemusha's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    The colours they weared depended on the order which they belonged. Templars weared the most famous white tunics with red crosses. Hospitallers black tunics with white crosses and Teutonic Knights weared white tunics with black crosses.
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    Join the ICLADOLLABOJADALLA! Member IrishArmenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    What about knights of Santiago?
    I think they wore the same thing as the Templars.

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    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    I don't recall the original poster making a distinction between parade or battle uniform. The picture shouldn't be dismissed simply for being impractical on the battlefield, as knights often wore things they wouldn't dream of taking into battle. The picture is obviously very stylized and fanciful, but for the most part his harness looks pretty accurate to me (though keep in mind that equipment was in a constant state of evolution over the entire medieval period--I would assume about 13th century for this guy).

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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    I'm under the impression most of that junk could right well have been worn into combat. The helmet decorations were made from light, fragile materials (only natural given what those great helms weighed, really...) so they wouldn't exactly "catch" anything beyond careless little birds...

    I know the Teutonic Order's main colours were black cross on white, but they also had a whole lot of additional varitaion for different ranks, serjeants, "guest" crusaders and so on which was doubtless a very common practice among the Orders. Still, the one in the pic has in practice a gold cross on white - beats me if there ever was an Order or rank that used such scheme.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

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    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    It is definitely Teutonic knight. Highest members of that order had special version of cross on shield.
    John Thomas Gross - liar who want put on Poles responsibility for impassivity of American Jews during holocaust

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    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    BTW - they normally looked similar - but with polish sword into throat :)
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    Guest Stig's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    BTW - they normally looked similar - but with polish sword into throat :)

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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    how can you say from a frigging puppet that the material its made of is too light to be worn into battle.. DUH and the mantle ofcourse is of iron... and their lance is iron too...?

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    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?


    What you say!!
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  22. #22
    Tovenaar Senior Member The Wizard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Pretty damn stylized, but overall there's nothing major wrong with it.
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    His lance doesn't have that cylindric piece before the handgrip, that keeps the lance from sliding. (I have no idea what it's called)

  24. #24
    Philologist Senior Member ajaxfetish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    I don't believe the earliest lances did either. I wouldn't consider it a necessary component. Perhaps the leather straps attached to it are meant to serve a similar purpose.

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    BTW - they normally looked similar - but with polish sword into throat :)
    Gotta love our resident Polish Nationalist!

    Ajax

    edit: While it may very well be a Teutonic Knight, keep in mind that considering the stylized nature of the piece overall it could just as easily be no more than the artist's idea of what colors and designs would look impressive.
    Last edited by ajaxfetish; 11-21-2006 at 04:53.

    "I do not yet know how chivalry will fare in these calamitous times of ours." --- Don Quixote
    "I have no words, my voice is in my sword." --- Shakespeare
    "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it." --- Jack Handey

  25. #25
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    He doesn't seem to be wearing any rigid body armour, so the "flare" in the lance would be useless anyway - if not outright dangerous. I don't think you'd want to transfer the impact directly into your damn ribcage after all...
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  26. #26

    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    I 've noticed that the horse wears mail under the tunic. Does that mean that this was normal? I mean, I see pictures of knights with tuniced horses but I always thought that fabric was not a particularly good armor, but mail underneath would make a lot of difference.

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    Member Member KrooK's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    It seems to be knight from XIII , maybe very beginnin of XIV century - he have no plate armour but helmets and some minor parts. And look at helmet - it seems to be oldest version of full helmets.
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    Retired Member matteus the inbred's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by KrooK
    It seems to be knight from XIII , maybe very beginnin of XIV century - he have no plate armour but helmets and some minor parts. And look at helmet - it seems to be oldest version of full helmets.
    Usually called the 'great helm' or casque. He'd probably have a mail or leather skullcap on underneath it as well, to prevent it from being crushed into his head by a blow.
    The picture looks, if a little clean and fanciful, quite accurate to me, and probably mid- to late-13th century as many people have already said.
    Mix of chainmail and plate armour, fine, and the horse wearing chainmail as well, under a padded or thick cloth caparison. Not sure about the helmet design, but then this is probably a 'parade order' knight! You wouldn't want to fight in a cloak, it could be used to pull you off the horse...equally, I don't whether spurs would be a wise idea when your horse is wearing curtains like that!

    His greaves seem a bit odd though...jointed strips...? Don't know if there's anything historically innaccurate about that, just not seen it before. Anything with vertical joins like that can be split by a blow, although I guess anyone hacking at his leg would be using a horizontal stroke as he went by...
    Last edited by matteus the inbred; 11-21-2006 at 15:33.
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    Dux Nova Scotia Member lars573's Avatar
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Stranger
    how can you say from a frigging puppet that the material its made of is too light to be worn into battle.. DUH and the mantle ofcourse is of iron... and their lance is iron too...?
    No lances were wood. Even the ones that had the fluted bit were made from wood. Carved on a lathe. The only metal bits would be the tip.
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    Default Re: Did they actually look like that?

    Quote Originally Posted by matteus the inbred
    His greaves seem a bit odd though...jointed strips...? Don't know if there's anything historically innaccurate about that, just not seen it before. Anything with vertical joins like that can be split by a blow, although I guess anyone hacking at his leg would be using a horizontal stroke as he went by...
    They were very common, sometimes even made of thick leather or even wood.

    Hospitallers black tunics with white crosses
    Early on, yes. This was replaced later with white on red

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