EB Preview :: Lusotannan

Originally Posted by Urnamma

In EB, the Germans are the only majorly uncivilized faction, with possibly the sarmatians as a close second. The rest have some (mainly large) degree of civilization.

As per reality. Let's not forget that the word "barbarian" originally meant "he who isn't Greek". In roman times it became the derigatory word it is today.

Oh, and now I can publically claim that I plan to take those Lusitani Ninjas, Foot cataphracts and the whole lot of those magnificent units and RULE THE WORLD... They deffinitely are some of the most beautiful units I have seen.

hey don't start with the english talking thread argument, i posted a translation to my post=P don't start ok? english speakers often show the pride they have on their language, and nobody starts flaming... why can't we portuguese do the same a little bit?

Originally Posted by soibean

you said that the germans and sarmatae were the least civilized of all the barbarian factions. What about the casse? I can see how the iberian tribes were influenced by carthage and greek colonies, gaulic tribes by rome, greek colonies, and dacia by Greece, but what kind of knowledge would the casse have acquired and from where?

Actually, the oldest road system in Europe was made by the Celts. Actually they also invented soap while the "civilized" Romans and Hellenes cleansed their skin with far more primitive methods. Actually, Rome (specially) and Hellas were greatly influenced by the Celts.

The Tartessanian Kingdom of southern Iberia was very advanced before the arrival of the Cathaginians. Their cities with stone buildings and stone fortresses attest to this. Their high degree of art and artisanship was not only extremelly original as well as intricate and avanced.

In regard to tech achievemets do I need to remind you that the best armourers and blacksmiths of ancient times were Iberian? Do I need to remind you that the gladius's complete name is actually gladius hispanniensis?

And I can go on and on...

Originally Posted by soibean

I guess to better restate that question: When you say a civ is the least civilized, how are you comparing it to the other civs? Sanitation, road systems, education?

Precisely. What is your definition of civilized?

Originally Posted by Lusitani

Na verdade e segundo um estudo de DNA recente os genes(linhagem masculina...de pai pa filho, não sei como é em relação aos genes herdados das mães) q predominam são sefarditas e norte africanos(berberes), curiosamente estes ultimos abundam no norte de Portugal e com uma implantação cronologica anterior à invasão arabe...
Atenção eu disse que predominavam...não disse que eram os únicos...antes q começem a espingardar :)

Tenho de ver de onde vem esse estudo. Embora se perceba porque isso pode acontecer:

-Houve muitas migrações norte-sul e vice-versa através do estreito de Gibraltar muito antes da idade do bronze e mesmo durante, portanto não é estranho a identificação genética comum.

Originally Posted by Avlvs Libvrnivs Britannicvs Maximvs

Since when was this the "talk Spanish/Portuguese thread"?

Portuguese, please. I see no "crap" Castillian language here...

yyes..if it wasn't for us iberians the world would be a lot diferent than we see it today... if it wasn't us, carthage would have taken rome in the first punic war, rome would nevre have had the gladius, and the scutum, and so on... we tend to be underestimated, but truth be said, much that is considered roman, was invented by us...=) besides, we taught rome what was fear, and terror, in our semi arid lands, irregular terrain, and fearsome warriors=)

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

hey don't start with the english talking thread argument, i posted a translation to my post=P don't start ok? english speakers often show the pride they have on their language, and nobody starts flaming... why can't we portuguese do the same a little bit?

Nice reply...

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

yyes..if it wasn't for us iberians the world would be a lot diferent than we see it today... if it wasn't us, carthage would have taken rome in the first punic war, rome would nevre have had the gladius, and the scutum, and so on... we tend to be underestimated, but truth be said, much that is considered roman, was invented by us...=) besides, we taught rome what was fear, and terror, in our semi arid lands, irregular terrain, and fearsome warriors=)

Not the scutum. This was a variation of a Samnite design itself influnced by Celtic shields.

He's certainly talking about the posts that have no english at all, and they were getting numerous there. Just include something english in them at least - it's a bummer to see someone posted something new, opening the thread with a slow connection, and then seeing that you can't read a single word of it.

don't flame the castellano=p, i may be portuguese in birth, but im 1/4 castellano=) but my heart lies completely on the portuguese 3/4, although i can speak "spanish", i don't identify with them=) but nonetheless i don't understand why after so many centuries portuguese and spanish must be such rivals.. why can't we all get along? why should this rivalry exist between spanish kingdoms and portugal? even after 2000 years we still are rivaling with each other...the pre roman tribes are still alive in the culture it seems...
i thought their scutum had something to do with the shield of the Scutari.... cuz the names is really similar...

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

Portuguese, please. I see no "crap" Castillian language here...

Well, how am I supposed to tell the difference between those two (very) foreign languages?

portuguese and castillan foreigner languages??? since when they are both some of the most talked languages world wide after english and french... how can that be? where are you from? i might not be that smart but i could distinguish the English from French, and french from italian and greek even if i didn't know nothing about them... Portuguese and Castillan are so diferent as the day is to the night...

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

don't flame the castellano=p, i may be portuguese in birth, but im 1/4 castellano=) but my heart lies completely on the portuguese 3/4, although i can speak "spanish", i don't identify with them=) but nonetheless i don't understand why after so many centuries portuguese and spanish must be such rivals.. why can't we all get along? why should this rivalry exist between spanish kingdoms and portugal? even after 2000 years we still are rivaling with each other...the pre roman tribes are still alive in the culture it seems...

Yeap. It seems so. But it's more about the language than the people. I just can't get myself to learn how to scratch my throat to make that pronounciation they have.

Besides, there are reasons for the rivalry. They have been trying to mingle in our affairs since ever...

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

i thought their scutum had something to do with the shield of the Scutari.... cuz the names is really similar...

That is because the word scutum is the roman word for large ovoid shields and the Romans just used that word to designate those they run in to in Iberia. And from that to call the guys carrying them scutari (something like "scutum-carriers") was just a step.

Originally Posted by Avlvs Libvrnivs Britannicvs Maximvs

Since when was this the "talk Spanish/Portuguese thread"?

Sorry got carried away :)...and btw noone's speaking spanish here :P

Originally Posted by Avlvs Libvrnivs Britannicvs Maximvs

Well, how am I supposed to tell the difference between those two (very) foreign languages?

Foreign? That is weird since this is an international forum based on a server in the Netherlands. What is "foreign" then?

spanish languages as well as almost any other language is extremely easy for portuguese persons... im not going to brag, and its a scientificly aknowledge fact that portuguese ppl do to their language and its language characteristics have a lot more easyness to speak foreign languages... if i remember correctly is because our national dialect is a neutral language, wich creates no vices on the tongue, allowing its natives to acomodate more easily to new languages like english, spanish, german, french, italian, russian, and even chinese and japanese... so why can't you get your tongue to twist for spanish? personally i speak british english, american english, castillan, french and italian with no accent whatsoever, its not dificult, all you have to do is think in the language you wanna speak, and speak, and not think in portuguese, than mentally tranlate and speak... it's a trick i learned in the 5th grade with english... many ppl make the thought in portuguese, causing dificulties in the learning and expressing of the foreign language, whereas if you make the thought in the foreign language all together its easier, and faster=)

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

spanish languages as well as almost any other language is extremely easy for portuguese persons... im not going to brag, and its a scientificly aknowledge fact that portuguese ppl do to their language and its language characteristics have a lot more easyness to speak foreign languages...

True.

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

if i remember correctly is because our national dialect is a neutral language, wich creates no vices on the tongue, allowing its natives to acomodate more easily to new languages like english, spanish, german, french, italian, russian, and even chinese and japanese...

Not exactly. Portuguese language has a particular advantage in that we have many sounds that aren't pronounced in any other language and we have almost all of the ones from other languages. Also, our grammar is very hard and it makes others look easy.

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

so why can't you get your tongue to twist for spanish?

A matter of taste...

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

personally i speak british english, american english, castillan, french and italian with no accent whatsoever, its not dificult, all you have to do is think in the language you wanna speak, and speak, and not think in portuguese, than mentally tranlate and speak...

Well, but then you're not average in regard to languages. Speaking all of those without accent is quite an achievement. I'm only fluent in English, French and I can scratch the Castillian and Italian.

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

it's a trick i learned in the 5th grade with english... many ppl make the thought in portuguese, causing dificulties in the learning and expressing of the foreign language, whereas if you make the thought in the foreign language all together its easier, and faster=)

Yeah. I do that to. But it also depends on natural ability.

Can we get and enjoy the preview of these Iberian guys and telling the team to get back to work so they finish before Christmas (preferably Thanksgiving) is over.

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

Foreign? That is weird since this is an international forum based on a server in the Netherlands. What is "foreign" then?

Foreign is anything that is not the native langauge that the forum was set up in. The forum was set up in English so English is the native language and all other languages are foreign.

well let's not start... back to topic=) can anyone post some of the infos about the buildings? will there be new 3d buildings for us? can we make textures of the barbarian huts so they look like lusitani stone houses? is this possible to make the skin idividualized with the new culture system of 1.5?

As I have said yesterday, we cannot make 3D battlemap building different by faction, but only by culture. GUI "skins" are in the same situation. Further, we don't have ANY capability of organizing or creating or implementing any new buildings on the battlemap at this time, because we don't have anyone who is in charge of or is capable of doing it.

Originally Posted by Avlvs Libvrnivs Britannicvs Maximvs

Foreign is anything that is not the native langauge that the forum was set up in. The forum was set up in English so English is the native language and all other languages are foreign.

Ok. Point taken.

Holy crap, those Dosidataskeli look like mad, mad dudes, man. Looks like they're tied with the Seleukid Silver Shields for toughest nuts in the game.

I'm glad the Iberian got some attention.

Originally Posted by iberus_generalis

portuguese and castillan foreigner languages??? since when they are both some of the most talked languages world wide after english and french... how can that be? where are you from? i might not be that smart but i could distinguish the English from French, and french from italian and greek even if i didn't know nothing about them... Portuguese and Castillan are so diferent as the day is to the night...

Hehe. Not really related, but last summer I went to Mallorca on vacation. While a lot of people there could speak fluently Cattalan, Castillian, a bunch of other regional languages, Portugese, Italian...very few could speak English or German (let alone Dutch), so we ran into some trouble there
Especially when our rental car broke down

Back on topic...looks great guys. The Lusotannan will still not likely be one of my favourite factions, but I bet I'll have some great times crossing swords with them

Originally Posted by Aymar de Bois Mauri

Actually, the oldest road system in Europe was made by the Celts. Actually they also invented soap while the "civilized" Romans and Hellenes cleansed their skin with far more primitive methods. Actually, Rome (specially) and Hellas were greatly influenced by the Celts.

The Tartessanian Kingdom of southern Iberia was very advanced before the arrival of the Cathaginians. Their cities with stone buildings and stone fortresses attest to this. Their high degree of art and artisanship was not only extremelly original as well as intricate and avanced.

In regard to tech achievemets do I need to remind you that the best armourers and blacksmiths of ancient times were Iberian? Do I need to remind you that the gladius's complete name is actually gladius hispanniensis?

And I can go on and on...

Precisely. What is your definition of civilized?

I had heard of the soap and road systems of the celts but I didnt know how extensive it was, or even the celtic people were, throughout briton and hibernia. I wasnt aware of the Tartessanian Kingom in Iberia, I was just guessing that they would have been influenced by the Carthiginians by this point in the game since Carthage owns southern Spain. I didn't know how early Spain's expertise in weaponry went. I knew that they were quite respectable in the middle ages but apart from that... nada.

My definition of civilized... I was actually asking what the EB people meant by this and threw out those examples. I consider being civilized as having a legit educational system, health system, transportation system ( same examples as earlier because I know EB has buildings that focus on these areas). Apart from these, caring for and respecting one's people. I dont feel that anything outside of my own culture is uncivilized - which is how many ancient cultures felt so Im trying to talk in their mindset.

I really dont think that helped at all but... yea. I find that a tough question to ask.

Originally Posted by Mujalumbo

Holy crap, those Dosidataskeli look like mad, mad dudes, man. Looks like they're tied with the Seleukid Silver Shields for toughest nuts in the game.

Yeah those guys just have badass written all over them. I wonder how well they can fight. Can they stand against Gaesatae?

These guys look a ton better than the current Iberian troops, and it's good to see a single tribe represented rather than an unrealistic "Iberia" faction (something that the RTR team is also stepping away from - *cough* Gauls).

Out of curiosity, though, how are the Iberian names and words devised? Are they based on a modern language that would have been similar to that of the Iberians?

What are the evidence for cataphract like cavalry units in the Iberian peninsula?

"Spain: where large armies starve and small armies disappear."

the iberian peoples were known by their fierce cavalry...the best horses in the world are originary from Portugal, they are called Lusitans, and are unique to the lusitania, legend says they were already bred in the times of the lusotannan, although historically they are said to be bred since the middle ages... a catraphact cavalry is not that ahistorical, cuz they had extremely good horses, plus they had the carthaginian and hellenic influence to the south and east...
besides the Lusitan is said by all experts to have been a War Horse in it's origin, bred only for war, and thus is known by his ferocity, and lack of fear, making him the horse of choice to bullfighting, and most hippic sports around the world...

the downside is that this strong horses take some time to train, and are only bred in Portugal, in some few latifundia, we call "Herdades"... if you think this is by some chance Bullcrap, and that im exagerating, i advice you to look it up in Wikipedia, Google where ever you want=)

but back to the cavalry of the iberian ppl, well, the romans learned quite a few tricks with us, and soon the elite cavalry of the republic and empire, only used horses bred in lusitania... than the middle ages came, but still the iberian cavalry had quite the renown(jinetes from MTW anyone?), and the portuguese lusitan horse, as well as some other spanish breeds-most of wich were lost through the centuries- granted their place in history, in battles like the Battle of Aljubarrota and others, there was really a type of cavalry called Jinetes that harassed infantary at a distance... but anyway the Iberic Cavalry, spanish or Portuguese, was always and through the centuries a force to be reckoned with, medium to heavy and really mobile...

so yes, if you ask me, a catraphact cavalry unit is somewhat realistic for the iberian factions....=) i thought it was intriguing there was none in 0.74..well destiny corrected that=)