By what names would the factions have been known?

[adembroski]

Certainly we know nobody referred to the Byzantine Empire as such, and this applies to most of the factions in one way or another... by what names were the entities that make up our factions be called by contemporaries?

Would England be simply called the Normans? Seems to me that if the word England had come into being at all it would have referred to the geographic region of greater Britain rather than those ruled by King William. If they are called Normans, would that make Sicily? Did people differenciate between political entities? By political entity I speak of a given feudal pyramid under a single King/Kaiser/what-have-you.

[HoreTore]

factions would be known by the title of their leader. As such, the english would be called english, as their king is the king of england...

[Furious Mental]

England was called England. England did not become a part of Normandy. The Duke of Normandy assumed the position of King of England. As soon as William the Conqueror died the two positions were separated again for a while, until Henry I invaded Normandy and put out his brother's (the Duke's) eyes. Also, in geographical terms, "England" referred to the area England now occupies and nowhere else. Scotland, Wales and Ireland were most definitely not part of "England". The only areas of variation would have been the Welsh and Scottish marches.

Although England was ruled by a bunch of people we now refer to as Normans, the only people who generally called them Normans at that stage were the Normans. To the English they were "Franks" and to the French anyone who came from England was "English".

[Memnoch]

What were the Turks, Hungarians and Poles known as?

[Didz]

What were the Turks, Hungarians and Poles known as?

Interestingly I just looked up what the Byzantine Empire was actually called and it was called by its native Greek name Ρωμανία, which translates into Rōmania, or Βασιλεία Ρωμαίων, which translates into Basileia Rōmaiōn.

This is a direct translation of the Latin name of the Roman Empire, Imperium Romanum. The name Byzantine was not used until 1557 and is based upon the original name of Constantinople (Byzantium)

[phunkbot]

.....

The name Byzantine was not used until 1557 and is based upon the original name of Constantinople (Byzantium).....

Slavs and bulgarians in the balkan peninsula called Byzantium "Tzarigrad" (City of Kings or smth like that) and the byzantians themselves "romey" or "vyzantiitzi" (romans and byzantians) so i guess the name depends on what angle you look at it from. And, wasnt the byzantine empire gone in 1557? as far as i know the turks conquerered Constantinople in 14-something...

[Anti-TotalWar]

Constantinople was taken in 1453 by Mehmet II.

[HoreTore]

Slavs and bulgarians in the balkan peninsula called Byzantium "Tzarigrad" (City of Kings or smth like that) and the byzantians themselves "romey" or "vyzantiitzi" (romans and byzantians) so i guess the name depends on what angle you look at it from. And, wasnt the byzantine empire gone in 1557? as far as i know the turks conquerered Constantinople in 14-something...

Yes, that's what I believe is didz point... The "byzantines" were never called that by anyone other than historians centuries later.

[HoreTore]

What were the Turks, Hungarians and Poles known as?

The turks were first the Seljuk turks, then the ottoman empire.

[Didz]

@adembroski

In truth the factions would be known by a number of names over the period depicted in the game.

If we take England as an example: Prior to Alfred the Greats efforts to unify the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms against the Vikings Angle Land consisted of seven petty kingdoms including Northumbria, Mercia, East Anglia, Essex, Kent, Sussex, and Wessex. Alfred declared himself King of the English in 886 but the country was not finally united into England for at least another 100 years under Alfred grandson Eadred after a series of military campaigns both internal and against Danish incursions.

So, by the time of the Norman Invasion there was a kingdom of England under a single ruler even though it consisted of a number of seperate Earldoms losely matched to the former Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms.

Its worth remembering that William was not a King, until after his successful invasion of England. Normandy was a Dukedom and thus it was natural that upon securing the English crown he adopted the higher title of King of England over that of the lesser Duke of Normandy. He also set about destroying the existing internal structure of the country by eliminating the Earldoms and parcelling the land out amongst his faithful knights and retainers. Thus, by 1087 the transformation of Angle Land into England was more or less complete and the basis of the current Shire system was in place, but it had taken over 200 years.

I suspect that every other faction in the game is going through a similar evolution and of course our own actions merely confuse the issue still farther by adding lands to the overall mix that historically never formed part of that factions domain.

If as HoreTore suggests we renamed the factions to match the family names of their leaders then the English faction would become Gunnor as I believe that was the family name of Dukes of Normandy. However, even this would only be temporarily accurate as ruling family names change over time. England for instance has been through Godwin, Norman (1066-),Blois (1135-) Plantaganet (1154-), Anjou (some land held until 1209), Lancaster (1399-), York (1461-), Tudor (1485-), Stuart (1603-), Orange (jointly 1689-1702) Hanover (1714-1901), Saxe Gotha (1901-renamed Windsor) Windsor (1901-Present)

I've noticed similar changes in the family names of my rulers during the game so it would not provide a stable naming convention.

[Eng]

I think the eygpt faction was knowen as the mumluk empire at least in the jearuslem provinces or something like that...

[Quillan]

Fatimid Caliphate, wasn't it? (Egypt, that is?)

[Dracula(Romanian Vlad Tepes)]

There are many historical problems in this game.

[LegioScythia]

I didnt really notice that.....

[Agent Smith]

The "Russians" were really known as Kievan Rus from the mid 9th century on until the middle of the 12th century. Prior to that it was the Rus Khaganate, which began in the early ninth century at Novgorod at later pushed south to Kiev. Power could not be held together for long, however, and (I think wikipedia put it best) "during the years from 1054 to 1224 no fewer than 64 principalities had a more or less ephemeral existence, 293 princes put forward succession claims, and their disputes led to 83 civil wars."

Anyway, there is a good read about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27