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Thread: Siege's AI so dumb

  1. #1

    Default Siege's AI so dumb

    What is going on here? Two hours wasted as the broken enemy army sits outside my walls waiting for me to come out and meet them. Thank god for the sand timer...




    On a different note, this is a bug (I think) which happens almost everytime I end turn. When other nations are taking their turns I will often see a diplomat of theirs come up to my city and do the little wave/bow thing like their trying to get my attention, but no diplomatic screen will show. Why does this happen?


  2. #2
    Member Member USMCNJ's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    I've seen the second one a bunch of times. I think they're trying to bribe the city/castle. I now consider this an act of war!
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  3. #3
    Vote: Sasaki Member ByzantineKnight's Avatar
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    Wink Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by USMCNJ
    I've seen the second one a bunch of times. I think they're trying to bribe the city/castle. I now consider this an act of war!
    That is in RTW too, and I share your opinions about it, bribe me and DIE.
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member Oaty's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Werner


    On a different note, this is a bug (I think) which happens almost everytime I end turn. When other nations are taking their turns I will often see a diplomat of theirs come up to my city and do the little wave/bow thing like their trying to get my attention, but no diplomatic screen will show. Why does this happen?
    When a popup doesnt show it means they at least took a look at the bribe price, wich is usually the case. If you find a general with extra loyalty traits it means they probably made an attampt. If the city change colors I'm sure you can figure that out.

    Anyways it is annoying at times with the agent clusterbomb but why complain at the sight of free assasin fodder

    But it's not a bug when that occurs

    In RTW you could mod bribing out as I'm not well experienced with MTW2 files you could see what can be found in the modding forums. I use to surround agents with diplomats just so they could be bribed and what good is paying the upkeep for 20 diplomats in one province, solved the bribing problem too as they no longer had the income to bribe due to the extra upkeep. I then modded it out to stop the irritaions of bribes and to stop me from sending bribefodder to the AI.

    As for the siege that has already been noted by developers as the passive AI and will be fixed in the patch.

    The AI is still improved even though it has problems, I figured I'd just put a tower/ladder on every wall for three of the sides since the defender could only man few of the walls/towers, to my surprise the AI sally's with all its cavalry and starts making piecemeal of my army, I did counter and I still would have won it but I sure can say it cost me a lot more men then it should have. I personally think the the AI is better in sieges beside when unit cohesion gets lost.
    Last edited by Oaty; 11-20-2006 at 04:20.
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    Village special needs person Member Kobal2fr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    There was the same problem with diplos in Rome, and I too assumed they were trying a bribe, but in M2 I've had princesses do the "wave, talk, but no" routine, and princesses cannot bribe, so there's got to be something more to it.
    Anything wrong ? Blame it on me. I'm the French.

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    Mafia Hunter Member Kommodus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    For now, I'd say that when the siege thing happens, just turn up the speed and let the timer run out.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    But that can take 10 minutes sometimes, and that's 10 minutes just sitting there doing nothing.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobal2fr
    There was the same problem with diplos in Rome, and I too assumed they were trying a bribe, but in M2 I've had princesses do the "wave, talk, but no" routine, and princesses cannot bribe, so there's got to be something more to it.
    Yeah, I get the princesses doing that as well. As for the overall AI, I totally agree. I think it has been improved since Rome, but there are deffinately a few issues that need to be worked out before its perfect.

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    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    Werner, your sig seems somehow inaccurate.

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    Spiritual Jedi Member maestro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    I had a seige last night which I was abdolutely sure to lose. The Danes had surrounded my settlement with 1 set of ladders, 1 RAM and a couple of catapults (along with some armoured swordsmen and dismounte huscarls). I had 2 Archer Militia and one each of spear militia and town militia. I should have got wasted, my main army was still a turn away when they attacked. I set my archers on flaming arrows and took out the RAm befroe it got to the door and then turned my sttention on the Armoured Swordsmen who were racing to my walls with ladders. Meanwhile, my spear militia take up positions on the wall where the ladders are aiming and my town militia sally forth to take out the catapults. In an heroic and suicidal mission, the town militia rout the catapults, saving my walls from destruction, but during this skirmish, the Armoured Swordsmen reached my walls with their ladders. Game over? You'd think so. They could ahve wakled right through my town without any problem. There were another load of swordsmen and the huscarls just waiting to join them on the ladders - but they just sat there. I'd given up - it was a no-win situation for me..... but they just sat there next to the ladders, being shot at by may archers. I killed about half of their swordsmen befoer running out of ammo and then just sat there, waiting for the timer to run out and to collect my "clear victory".

    Stupic, stupid AI
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  11. #11
    BLEEEE! Senior Member Daveybaby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    Seems pretty obvious that this is the passive AI bug, which is known about, and is being fixed - so why bleat on about it again?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    Quote Originally Posted by maestro
    they just sat there. I'd given up - it was a no-win situation for me..... but they just sat there next to the ladders, being shot at by may archers. I killed about half of their swordsmen befoer running out of ammo and then just sat there, waiting for the timer to run out and to collect my "clear victory".

    Stupic, stupid AI
    I had something similar happen when the Venetians assaulted my walls once with over 1300 troops. After they used their siege tower to get ontop of my walls everything became very cluttered and they were all spaced out from eachother. What I mean is there seems to be some very pertinent spacing issues and when hundreds of troops cluster together its as if they can't move. They became very sluggish on top the walls and allowed me to pelt them with arrows long enough for moral to drop and they ran away.

  13. #13
    Ashigaru Member Vlad Tzepes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    The strangest sieges I've seen have come so far from the Mongols. Three times in a row, my fortress in Aleppo was sieged by Mongols, 2 armies at a time (acting as reinforcements).

    Each time, the first army managed to break the gate with a ram, then I repelled with heavy losses the Mongol cavalry attack. The first army routed. Then one, only one foot unit from the reinforcement Mongol army came, manned the ram, and tried to move it away - even if the gate was already broken (and inside were just a few depleted, exhausted and wavering units).

    And another bizzarerie - remember the immobile AI in RTW, that encouraged you to destroy it with missiles? Well it's back - when Mongols siege me I sally forth, mount yeoman archers on the walls and reduce their forces - the AI dumbly stays there, not moving an inch as 55% of it's soldiers dissapear. I feel bad winning this way.
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  14. #14
    Praeparet bellum Member Quillan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    When the diplomat/princess does the "wave" bit and you get no popup, that means they were trying for something that wasn't allowed. In RTW, that usually meant they tried a bribe but the price was higher than their treasury. However, it could also be an alliance request when it turns out they are at war with some faction that would disallow the alliance, or a request to marry off a princess to a faction heir in either direction, but that couldn't happen because you have no princesses or your faction heir is already married. None of those will bring a popup.
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  15. #15

    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    I just had the passive AI thing (or whatever it is) happen to me in a regular pitched battle. I was England, attacked by two seperate French forces (both smaller than me, though probably about the same together), and they just sat there and looked at me for a while, until I started firing my catapult at them.
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    Member Member kaasbris's Avatar
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    Default Enemy spy opened gate...but storm the wall?

    As Hungary, my Budapest stone walled city was attacked by HRE full army.
    To my surprise, HRE spy was here and he opened the gate, which means HRE army do not need to storm the wall with tower/ladder.

    But AI decided to attack the wall instead of just walking through gate!

    I had 5 spears/2 archers/1 general while HRE had full stack of better troops.
    1 tower attacked left wall, 1 ladder attacked rigt wall, where each or Hungary spear defended, while remaining 3 spears stationed around gate.

    However, battles one the wall losing badly, I had to move all spears from gate to wall, making gate undefended (it's already opened by spy anyway.)

    But still AI do not attack through gate!

    AI's 3 trong cavalries didn't move, while archers(!) joined tower, where losed badly. After I succeeded repeling on the wall, AI just sit in front of gate and d noting. What a silly!

  17. #17
    Member Member danfda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Enemy spy opened gate...but storm the wall?

    Has anyone had an issue with trying to sally? I was besieged by the Hungarians (Smolensk, as the Russians) and tried to send out my kazak horse archers to pelt thier slow infantry. One unit made it out, and the other two just ran back and forth for the whole battle. They were not engaged, they were not on fire at will or skirmish, but they simply ran back and forth through the gates, ignoring my commands and in general being...infuriating. The enemy troops even ran through the gates once, and they did nothing. Kept running about in thier silly, head-bobbing manner. I had to charge with my general to rout the intruders. I ended up winning, but by a much closer margin than the battle had any right to be. Fraggglefarfnerthgrr...
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  18. #18

    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    I am playing England currently.


    Milan broke their alliance and sent 2 full stacks against my city of Angers.


    the garrison? haha... 65 archers, and 300 spearmen, and my heir... sad...

    a spy opened my gates, but the Milanese marched to my walls and put up some ladders, and a seige tower... they sent the units that had manned the equipment up the ladders and the tower... i killed them, np, my troops were upgraded as high as they could go.

    you'd think they would send some more troops right? well, yes... and no... the AI (in all it's glory) tried to send EVERY SOLDIER UP THE LADDERS AT THE SAME TIME! i play the game, max settings, and dont slow down for anything, but all of the sudden, with 6k men struggling to get on some ladders, my frame rates plumet to like 1 every few seconds...

    they tried to get so many men on the ladders at the same time, noone got on the ladders, at all... after about 4 hours of doing stuff around the house, i came back... about 5 mins had gone by in the battle... the only differance? my archers are outta ammo... where are the Millanese? running and packing in around the ladders... man... seige AI sucks so bad... I have never had a probelm with the AI. who cares if they stand there for 1 or 2 battles in a war that lasts years? woopdy friggen do! vh/vh balances that all out in the end.

    i wish the AI gets fixed, and fast... according to the guys over at TW, they say the patch is 2 weeks away... so much for the "we will have a patch ready the day after the game is out"... oh well, this game will just be left to gather dust till that time... Sieges make up 50% of my battles... so, what is the point of playing when the AI cant get anything done right?

    other than the AI messing up in sieges, i love the game... that one litte thing ruins it tho.

  19. #19
    Member Member Polemists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    I've had this happen once or twice. I will say majority of the time the Ai does the right thing and just attacks me. Usually it uses it's catapaults first and then it's siege equipment. However once or twice when I charge out of my castle to take out there catapaults before it's to late they seem to sometimes not move for quite a bit. I've only played as Germans and Moors tho, and I will say AI seemed better when I played as Germans, seems to lack a bit more as I play the moors, though quite often the Ai has broken my gates, taken my cities, had bloody street battles so no major complaints.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Siege's AI so dumb

    I know what you mean with the no-attack enemies.
    I was fighting as the English against the Russians, they had mainly heavy cav. and I had mostly archers. I formed my longbowmen into a square and had them deploy pikes, and then put my general inside the square. The Russians charged two units of pikemen I had with full force, but then stopped before reaching the archer square, and stood there for half an hour getting fired at.
    By the time my archers used up all of their ammo, I had killed 75% of the Russian forces. They still wouldn't attack, and I finally charged some of my reserve cav. and routed them.

    As for the diplomat thing, that's a problem with my campaign too. According to the Rome tutorial I played when I origionally got it, that means an attack may soon be coming.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Enemy spy opened gate...but storm the wall?

    Quote Originally Posted by kaasbris
    To my surprise, HRE spy was here and he opened the gate, which means HRE army do not need to storm the wall with tower/ladder.

    But AI decided to attack the wall instead of just walking through gate!
    Yeah I've had this happen many times too, whats the point of their spy if they don't take advantage of the gates being opened. Something the next patch is sure to fix.

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