Unusually weak and strong units

[Dorkus]

1. JHI (12/10 or so) have very weak stats, but do very well in melee against other inf. They get crushed by cav 1on1, but then so too do most other units.

2. Vargangian Guard (20/15) have ridicluously good stats, but lose to almost everything.

Something else must be going on here. JHI and VG both have armor piercing, so that can't explain the difference. I was thinking perhaps JHI have better range, so more of their troops can engage, but it's hard to tell.

Has anyone else identified unusually weak or strong units (given the stats)? It seems to me that the best way of predicting how powerful a unit is, is basically the price. It also seems that the stats on the printed charts seem more accurate than the stats in game. For example, the lancer seems to consistently beat other cav that have the same stats. On the printed chart, the lancer is superior (don't hav eit in front of me, so don't rmemeber how much).

This game seems quite rushed.

[TigerVX]

My Mercenary Free Company Men at Arms seem to terribly suck at all levels. They can't even hold their own against zero experience pavise crossbows or handgunners. Whereas my Free Company Longbow men can hold walls against any foe. I keep wondering why their stats look pretty good, but they get their arse handed to them by anyone.

[Amon_Zeth]

Venetian Heavy Infantry are awesome, I've yet to see them lose 1 on 1 with another infantry unit. I can't wait to get them, musketeers, some crusader knights and artillery so I can rule the battlefields.

[lars573]

Crusader knights aren't that great (they are a crusade merc unit). Order knights (Hospitallers, Templars, Teutons) I haven't taken afeild yet.

[Quillan]

Based on what Orda Khan found in his comparisons, what seems to make the Janissary Heavy Infantry (and the Danish one, whose name I can't remember) so effective is their reach. They lose a lot of men on impact, but once they kill everyone who can reach them, they pretty much wipe up everyone else because they can't be touched anymore.

With the Varangian Guard, what I've noticed is that they attack vvvveerrrrryyyyy sllllooooowwwwwlllllyyyyyyyyy. They work pretty well as flankers, though. I've switched over to dismounted Byzantine lancers and dismounted latinkon for heavy infantry in my Byzantine game.

The Byzantine top end horse archer, the Vardariotai, is extremely good. They wear armor, by default I think their melee is 11 and missile is 9, fast moving, good morale and good stamina.

[Dorkus]

Thanks Quillan.

Very interesting, but also very annoying. How are we supposed to figure out which unit is superior, if not by unit stats? Or at least some qualitiative description of a unit's abilities?

I don't remember the ratings of JHI and VG on the printed chart -- does the chart do better in approximating unit combat value? Or do we simply look at unit cost as a proxy of combat value?

Very annoying.

[KhaderKhan]

1. JHI (12/10 or so) have very weak stats, but do very well in melee against other inf. They get crushed by cav 1on1, but then so too do most other units.

2. Vargangian Guard (20/15) have ridicluously good stats, but lose to almost everything.

Something else must be going on here. JHI and VG both have armor piercing, so that can't explain the difference. I was thinking perhaps JHI have better range, so more of their troops can engage, but it's hard to tell.

Has anyone else identified unusually weak or strong units (given the stats)? It seems to me that the best way of predicting how powerful a unit is, is basically the price. It also seems that the stats on the printed charts seem more accurate than the stats in game. For example, the lancer seems to consistently beat other cav that have the same stats. On the printed chart, the lancer is superior (don't hav eit in front of me, so don't rmemeber how much).

This game seems quite rushed.

You're right, for example in my game early handgunners have a higher defence skill (8) to JHI even though JHI's are an elite unit. The same also applies to the Quprologu (sp?) who have the same defence skill as medium HA like the Sipahis.

Am in a middle of campaign but can someone tell how good the Jannisary Musketeers are? I have a suspcion they might have better defence stats then most heavy infantry units...