Winning First?

**Noong** · 11-20-2006, 15:36

What triggers this trait?

The description says that I want to win at any cost and it comes with +1 dread but I keep on getting it on my generals that I want to be chivalrous. Obviously it is something I am doing in the battles but what? I release the prisoners and only occupy settlements.

**chunkynut** · 11-20-2006, 17:03

Do you have large losses amoungst your own troops?

**Noong** · 11-20-2006, 18:05

Not really. Usually less than 25% of my men die. Attacking a city (alot of my fights) I'll sometimes lose more than the enemy but still it is not a big number compared to my total.

I thought maybe it was because I chase down routers (don't know why I do that since I release them anyway). That seems like a dishonourable thing to do but I wouldn't class it as "winning at all costs". Might get some to chase and some not to chase and compare results to test it.

**Spendius** · 11-20-2006, 18:12

Originally Posted by Noong

I thought maybe it was because I chase down routers (don't know why I do that since I release them anyway).

For XP !

**Jimmytwohand** · 11-20-2006, 18:14

Its just a hunch and unproven but i thought this came from friendly fire. I get it a lot with my english generals and i use cheap levy spearmen to pin down an attack as my longbows rip them to pieces. It does, however, cause the odd friendly casualty.

**Werner** · 11-20-2006, 18:19

Originally Posted by Noong

What triggers this trait?

The description says that I want to win at any cost and it comes with +1 dread but I keep on getting it on my generals that I want to be chivalrous. Obviously it is something I am doing in the battles but what? I release the prisoners and only occupy settlements.

To be honest I don't understand half the traits that are assigned to generals. Most generals will have several set traits upon adoption or coming to age, but after that it seems as if they receive traits somewhat randomly. The troops that you chase down are not the troops you capture. Captured troops translates into a percentage of the enemy's you already "killed" on the battlefield. The more troops you "kill" the higher the number of total prisoners after the battle, or atleast thats what I made of it.

To be honest I think releasing prisoners is over rated, and although I do it most of the time just to get Chivalry, the enemy doesn't seem to take this into account at all when attacking you or signing treaties.

**Beefeater** · 11-20-2006, 19:11

I'm not so sure they don't take it into account - In my VH/VH trial campaign as France I have always released prisoners, and found that every one of battles that I have lost, I've had my prisoners released too. Whether this is (a) random, (b) based on my King's/Generals' traits or Chivalry level or (c) based on a course of past dealing I'm not sure, but it's certainly happening.

**Quillan** · 11-20-2006, 19:14

I have it a bunch too, and if it's friendly fire, that's going to irritate me a little. I get a lot of friendly fire casualties - well, not really a lot, but in a typical fight I'll take between 5-25. They are all from the same cause, too: horse archers getting in each others way. I'm not deliberately firing into a melee; it's just that one unit is blocking another, or I charge and some of the guys are still going through shooting animations.

**Daveybaby** · 11-20-2006, 19:50

Originally Posted by Werner

The troops that you chase down are not the troops you capture. Captured troops translates into a percentage of the enemy's you already "killed" on the battlefield. The more troops you "kill" the higher the number of total prisoners after the battle

100% Wrong. Sorry.

Troops you chase down are the troops you capture. Captured troops do not translate into a percentage of the enemies you already killed on the battlefield. The number of troops you kill does not affect the number of total prisoners after the battle (except that if you kill more there will be less left to capture).

**phoule** · 11-20-2006, 21:25

I think this trait is also triggered by using your General unit as bait to pull enemy units out of position. Typically getting enemy units out of position means he's sort of "running away" even though he's not scared to fight, he's just being used as a means of ensuring victory by destroying an opposing army piece meal instead of openly charging the lines. I get this trait all the time, because that's generally how I fight most of my battles. I charge and pull back until a unit decides to get baited then I'll run him away until he's way out of position and far from his support before finishing the unit off. It's hard to do against archer heavy armies though, but then archer heavy armies are easy to crush with cavalry.

**Arifel** · 11-20-2006, 23:32

I tend to get this trait when using lots of gunpowder units and not fighting in melee, mostly toward the end game. In the early game when I charge everything with knights, the generals tend to get + chivalry traits instead.

**Kobal2fr** · 11-21-2006, 14:19

I think it has to do with any manoeuver that the AI deems is a "sacrifice" of your men.

F'r'instance, I've had it on a general because in his very first battle I used a band of merc crossbows to shoot at the city square, to force their militia to charge me, exposing themselves to my own peasant bowmen in the process. Won the battle with few casualties proportionally, but that single unit got butchered (lots of back and forth skirmishing, losing some men each time). Could have been friendly fire too though. Or, as Arifel says, could be because of the archer-heavy fighting, which is not so sportly.