How to get a good charge

[Napoleon Blownapart]

So that's what I was doing wrong! Very useful post. I'm going to practice now.

[Vladimir]

Good post. I'm trying to think of situations where it's more benneficial to charge with the sword than lance.

[Marquis of Roland]

Thank you very much for the analysis, it was very helpful.

[Flavius Gonzo]

So, question then. Sometimes, it's advantageous to have a unit of cavalry rush to a target but you'd still like it to charge properly say if you want to destroy an out of position unit on the battle field. (An easy example: the enemy has a single unit of town militia marching in as re-enforcements, you want to take them out before they join the entire army.)

Is the only way to do this to double-click to near the target so they run there, then as you get close, to single click, and wait for the charge to happen? And if this is the case, how close can the enemy be for a charge to work?

Again this thread is super helpful. I lost a general the other night "charging" into a unit of peasants of all things. Except, I think I had done the double click thing, meaning, they didn't really charge. Lesson learned.

[Slaists]

A very good post. Corresponds to my experiences as well. Last night annihilated an enemy general unit in seconds using similar single click charge.

The only problem with the single-click charge: it does not seem to work with skirmishing enemy missile units. I guess, against those, you still want to use double-click attack which won't be a "proper charge" though.

[Xy1on]

Ok, this is logical and I agree. The problem is double clicking them to just outside their charge radius, then single clicking for the charge. There is too much going on, and a general should be able to say to his cav, "run to your charge radius and then charge", with one simple command. I have other units to command and any general would expect his "well trained" heavy cav units to know how to set up a proper charge on their own!

[gardibolt]

Double right clicking (irrespective of charge) is buggy; it has been this way for me since Alexander, though it worked fine in RTW and BI. Basically, double right clicking just results in walking, not running. I have to manually press R to get them to move fast. Very annoying.

[Xy1on]

Double right clicking (irrespective of charge) is buggy; it has been this way for me since Alexander, though it worked fine in RTW and BI. Basically, double right clicking just results in walking, not running. I have to manually press R to get them to move fast. Very annoying.

This is because you are giving a double click command with the game paused. I admit this is probably a "bug", but once you unpause, they will only walk. If you issue a double click command while unpaused, they will run.

[vertical]

Very helpful thread, thank you all.

vertical

[Dooz]

First off, great post Hashashiyyin, very good info and writeup.

Ok, this is logical and I agree. The problem is double clicking them to just outside their charge radius, then single clicking for the charge. There is too much going on, and a general should be able to say to his cav, "run to your charge radius and then charge", with one simple command. I have other units to command and any general would expect his "well trained" heavy cav units to know how to set up a proper charge on their own!

Ok, in regards to having to micromanage double-clicking to get the unit in the charge radius then having to click again, there is a simple solution. You can set "waypoints" for units, as you did if you played the tutorial (which understandably most TW vets won't, but I like them cause they're fun ). So applying that to this strategy, what you need to do is double-click the unit into the charging radius, then press and hold shift and single-click on the unit you wish them to charge. They'll get to the initial waypoint and line up, then will commence the charge automatically as the second step without you having to come in again and click at that point.

Basically the way waypoints work is you can give a unit a series of destinations which they'll follow in order you place them by pressing and holding shift and clicking where you want them to go. So you can set up the cav on a flank by double-clicking, then press and hold shift and single click on a unit that's engaged with your inf and it'll do exactly what you need. I know I just repeated myself but yeah, just want to make it clear.

[Wizzie]

Fantastic post. After getting involved in a unit-spacing debate in another thread I decided to go and do a bit of testing on custom battle myself and came to the same conlcusion. In summary: In my opinion charges are still bugged. Even when executing what should be a "perfect" charge, sometimes it can turn out a shambles with the unit walking or breaking up, etc. However, if you do set up charges just as explained in the first post your succesfull charges will go from maybe 30%-40% succeed ratio to well over 70% succeed ratio. This is still unnacceptable obviously, and needs to be worked on, but I do believe that CA will make the whole process easier and more user-friendly but still retain the new mechanics it seem to be using, so it might be best to get used to it now :P <br>I must say though that the new mechanics are slightly more realistic. Cavalry charges from the early medieval period right up to the early 1800s were always started off at a sedate walk and then gradually accelerated, only reaching full gallop within meters of the enemy. Knights had to charge "knee to knee" as it was known, to get a fully effective charge. The idea was for a solid wall of horse, man and steel to completely obliterate the enemy line, so if the line had alot of gaps it would not succeed as well.<br>However, charging is still (if not bugged) very raw code that needs to be refined quite abit for it to be fully fluid and user-friendly.<br>

[Xy1on]

I would argue that the game is attempting to simulate medieval battles. Its the reason for variables like moral, fatigue, experience and defence to name a few. There is no question about CA is trying to accomplish here. I would agree with Whacker about the infantry and the football field and the self preservation. Would you charge an enemy unit while the rest of your unit stood there and watched? Would you like to be the guy at the tip of a wedge? Can you sprint 100 yards without loosing your breath? I doubt it. Infantry and Cavalry are much different, however. I would expect my cav to sprint 100, 200, 300 or more straight yards, keep formation, and deliver a charge without stopping. If the cavalry must turn while running, they are going to loose formation though. The horses on the outside of the turn would have to run faster durring the turn, to keep a stright formation. Looks good on paper but I doubt you could coordinate this in the heat of battle, and here is where the self preservation comes in again. The cav turns, the cav looses formation, the cav wants to get back into formation before charging.

[gardibolt]

This is because you are giving a double click command with the game paused. I admit this is probably a "bug", but once you unpause, they will only walk. If you issue a double click command while unpaused, they will run.

No, that's not it. I almost never pause the game, other than to answer the phone or something. I always play real time in battles. And double click always goes run for a fraction of a second, then reverts to walk. Very irritating.

[Whacker]

Ok, this is logical and I agree. The problem is double clicking them to just outside their charge radius, then single clicking for the charge. There is too much going on, and a general should be able to say to his cav, "run to your charge radius and then charge", with one simple command. I have other units to command and any general would expect his "well trained" heavy cav units to know how to set up a proper charge on their own!

First off, thanks Hash for the great write-up, I tried it for a bit and it helped.

However, I'm inclined to agree with Xy1on's statement. Doubleclicking to run, having to keep track of the unit and have it's charge distance memorized, THEN single clicking to charge (which imo is counter-intuitive) is far too much micromanagement, even for single player where pause is an option. If this functionality is what CA intended, then I would offer that we should stick this in the patch wishlist thread as this is just not a good idea.

Cheers!

[Darkmoor_Dragon]

Nice post but, aye, its bugged; well and truly so.

I think you're trying to read far too much into the conceptualism of "realistic charging".

It just 'doesn't work very well because its buggy code' is the simpler and more likely explanation.

And, ateotd, even if it was WAI then it would still need changing as its so user-unfriendly in its current state.

No, whichever way you look at it it's screwy.

Sorry.

CA: fix it.

[BeeSting]

Good thread... good posts...

[BeeSting]

Nice post but, aye, its bugged; well and truly so.

I think you're trying to read far too much into the conceptualism of "realistic charging".

It just 'doesn't work very well because its buggy code' is the simpler and more likely explanation.

And, ateotd, even if it was WAI then it would still need changing as its so user-unfriendly in its current state.

No, whichever way you look at it it's screwy.

Sorry.

CA: fix it.

I seriously doubt it’s a bug… it’s part of the game mechanics in that you need sufficient distance and unit order to make your charges affective. The progression of patches in RTW has made charges harder to master and more real to life. There’s a huge difference in how charges work between 1.3 and 1.5 patches. They may have perfected this in MTW. And I like it.

In this game, as I can imagine in real life, the FIRST charge with fresh units is most damaging. So make it count!
Light cavalry charges are most affective on the flanks. Frontal heavy cavalry charges are best used to break up the main line; it is even more affective if closely followed by infantry charge.

[grinningman]

Ok, this is logical and I agree. The problem is double clicking them to just outside their charge radius, then single clicking for the charge. There is too much going on, and a general should be able to say to his cav, "run to your charge radius and then charge", with one simple command. I have other units to command and any general would expect his "well trained" heavy cav units to know how to set up a proper charge on their own!

Just use the shift key to queue up a double click command that runs the unit to where you want the charge to begin, followed by a single click charge command. It's barely more work than double clicking where you want to charge.

Thanks for the great post Hashashiyyin!

I love the overall way charging works now, as opposed to the RTW system, but it does seem a little buggy at the moment. More testing is needed to show exactly what needs changing, though. I might try to do some if I get time.

[Lochar]

Good info, still having some issues with it but it might be the radius issue.

Single clicking sometimes will have my troops form up and then charge but sometimes they dont wait for all or some charge at different speeds and dont hit as a unit.

This clould be unit experience tho and will continue to test.

The one thing I would have liked to see was the shift click allowed for charges so we cld shift click an enemy and then double shift click behind them to cause a charge and withdrawal. I love charges but still not a fan of always having to babysit them.

[Hashashiyyin]

A couple things to help clear up some questions.

First: charging is still buggy and needs work by CA. Some things like only your first line in formation charging are (I hope) bugs. So you will not always get a clean/useful charge even if you do the right things. But still if you take time to setup and single click you'll get 80%-95% success rate vs. a 5-10% success rate by just wildly and chaotically charging your Calvary around the field.

Second: if your unit's are already inside the charge radius and you single click, they will begin the charge immediately. so if you run (double click) them inside the charge radius, and they are still out of formation when you single click, the charge will still probably be crap even if they lower their lances. Try giving a facing command with your moves so when the reach that point they should line up quick and be ready for a good charge.

Third: The only time a unit will stop before the charge is if they have been given the single-click "engage" order outside of the charge radius. Once they reach the charge radius they form up quick and then charge. Again, if they are already inside the charge radius when you single click they will try to immediately charge w/o forming up. so if you're moving a unit from one place to another and want them to be able to get a good charge I'd recommend giving them a facing order with their movement and trying to get them to line up just outside the charge radius.