How to get a good charge

[Whacker]

If you have been on the back of a fully galloping horse, think about doing it while wearing 60 lbs of armor, holding a shield in one hand, and a lance in the other, controlling the horse with you knees, and trying to keep in a perfect line with the 20 other armored knights to your right for 400 yards? are you joking?

Perfect formation? No, that's unrealistic. But as I have read it, the standard Frankish charge would still be a very cohesive, "standardized" formation that's slighty saw-tooth shaped on the front, to vary the force delivered and allow for penetration through the mini-gaps formed on impact. Keeping this kind of formation, wearing all that amor, over several hundred yards is not farfetched. Do keep in mind that the men doing this have been trained since their youth to live, eat, sleep, breath, and crap combat and war. These men could also move around in their armor like it was a second skin, in a book I just got done reading about Agincourt, there were multiple references to a knight who could scale the underside of a ladder quite nimbly in full "White harness", as full plate mail was referred to in that time period. There was another thread where it was either econ or myddraal who posted a number of references to medieval warrios being big and powerful, and being able to remain rather agile in their various types of armor. Thus the concept of these men in armor, riding their likewise armored horses, which are also bred and trained for battle, in a cohesive and organized manner doesn't seem so unrealistic in the end. I must admit I had a number of preconceived notions about this before I started reading books on the subjects.

Now I will offer that xy1on's statement about turning in a charge will cause lose of cohesion, which to me would translate as to giving a counter-order or telling the cav to do something different in mid-charge, when within their charge distance. Ordering them to perhaps charge the unit to the immediate left or right of the original target, while still several charge-distances (is this a new unit of measure? ) away shouldn't entirely destroy the cohesion as it's not as extreme of a course alteration, but the overall unit cohesion should take a hit, that they will have to reform for the most part before hitting the point that they start the final run.

And while some others have posted a few good points to consider such as the waypoints, etc, my opinion still remains that the bottom line is that the level of micromanagement here is too much. I should be able to, through a single double click, order my cav to run across a distance, then when in range, charge at their targets, and they should do this in a cohesive fashion.

Cheers!

[Dooz]

I'd like to see a lot more from Hashashiyyin as far as theories on the game go and different tactics and strategies and everything else. I sure hope you continue to provide us with more wonderful and insightful tips and writeups in the years to come of enjoying M2TW. A true asset to the Org!

[AussieGiant]

Keep in mind Whacker, this maybe CA's attempt at keeping the power of Cavalry accurate (statistically) while making sure the overpowered cavalry problems in Rome are solved.

Rome was just a cavalry war if you were really worried about winning.

[Whacker]

Keep in mind Whacker, this maybe CA's attempt at keeping the power of Cavalry accurate (statistically) while making sure the overpowered cavalry problems in Rome are solved.

Rome was just a cavalry war if you were really worried about winning.

A good point, but I really really hope that your proposition isn't the case.

There are better ways on making cavalry appropriately powerful, imo, instead of making a kludgy interface or through interface mechanics. As it stands, I think the charges are decent. Some of the lighter cav units are overpowered, some of the spears are underpowered. My real complaint is cav's staying power in pitched battle, post-charge. They seem to be eaten alive by even peasants, which is utter BS.

Cheers!

[AussieGiant]

A good point, but I really really hope that your proposition isn't the case.

There are better ways on making cavalry appropriately powerful, imo, instead of making a kludgy interface or through interface mechanics. As it stands, I think the charges are decent. Some of the lighter cav units are overpowered, some of the spears are underpowered. My real complaint is cav's staying power in pitched battle, post-charge. They seem to be eaten alive by even peasants, which is utter BS.

Cheers!

I'd say the concept will be kept. By that I mean the whole, set up, facing, unit order, correct terrain and single click.

But I agree with your points regarding some balancing issue and staying power after contact...although staying power after contact would not be appropriate for all units :)

Plus a few more bugs that we have spoken about. In the end, a few good patches and this should work out just fine.

The whole double click and forget is not a good thing in my opinion and would represent a step back the Rome cav supremacy days.

A bit of both concepts and we will have a winner in my view.

[Whacker]

The whole double click and forget is not a good thing in my opinion and would represent a step back the Rome cav supremacy days.

For the record, I gotta respectfully disagree. Without getting into my opinion too deeply, I think that neutering of units to make them historically not as powerful as what they should be just for the sake of multiplayer stinks. Irregardless, I want to be able to, through a single double-click, be able to order my cav to make a beeline running for the unit that I want them to charge, and then when in range, charge. Can you imagine trying to micromanage 4-6 units of cav in multiplayer (much less single player where you can PAUSE) and getting them to charge cohesively? It's pretty much impossible, unless you're as fast as some of those Korean Starcraft-playing gods who can do billions of actions per second. I for one am nowhere NEAR that capable.

Cheers!

[AussieGiant]

I agree that my idea only works for SP battles with pause Whacker.

It would not work for MP and your single double click and let the AI do the rest is one option, and certainly the easiest=.

But what do you do?

I'd say that if I was CA then I'd keep the SP set up (more complicated) and inform the MP community that this will be the case.

This will keep Cav spamming down in MP and make sure if you want to take them that you allocate time to them so you get the most out of your cav.