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  1. #1
    Parentum voto ac favore Member Dark_Magician's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    Quote Originally Posted by Dayve
    5 or so turns later my standing with the pope began to drop, even though i was the innocent party here... Bullcrap.

    Show me where to sign, i'll complain about this. If it's on the totalwar.com forums then i can't, i'm banned for life there, so somebody gonna have to post for me.
    Well, what do you expect from His Holyness? The French and the Danes both say they are just repulsing the attacks you have been long preparing. They act in precaution. After all everybody see you are pursuing expansionist military policies. One look at your "innocent" face expression is enough.

  2. #2
    Member Member JFC's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    Try This!
    English Campaign now holding 50 regions. Timurids have now invaded Russia, my allies and bezzy buddies. Sent over a diplomat to Novgorod and asked to exchange Map Information to see where they were up to.

    Just Rejected came the reply. How about this? My Map Information and they GIVE me 450 florins. Negative I said. I want your map info... for mine... You really get the better deal here Russia.

    Still no. What rubbish.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    Wanna know why do i think diplomacy is screwed?
    I was playing Venice, m/m. Destroyed Milan, had those rich islands, jerusalem also. Then a french princess purposed marriage. I tough "cool :), these marriages sound like stable aliances." My prince was married, Venice and french bounded for ever. Next turn a royal member of the french faction, with some peasants and other stupid units sieged one of my well defended towns. Our relations were at the best level, we had a marriage aliance and the AI just attacked me in the very next turn.
    Now you tell me that diplomacy is working and the AI isnt ridiculous!

  4. #4
    Ashigaru Member Vlad Tzepes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    On my opinion, and I've been playing TW since old Shogun, diplomacy in MTW 2 is much more sensible and understandable than in the others.

    I now play English, m/m, I've got a "very reliable" reputation and I've got several long-lasting alliances going on, including the Pope. I am not particulary aggressive and try to expand mostly over Rebel and non-catholic lands, to avoid excomm.

    Things quickly deteriorated with Byzantines after I captured Constantinople, held by Egypt at the time - it seems Byzantines really want the city back, so they declared war.

    With my European Catholic neighbors, relations worsened and some wars broke after I took Jerusalem - which is THE victory condition. Very nicely, Venetians proposed peace only 4 turns after I had to abandon Jerusalem (which rebelled), due to Mongol pressure in Mid-East (oh! I hate their guts ).

    Still, it seems there is no way I could get the Danes to accept a cease-fire, though I never attacked them, I never got one of their cities, even from other faction, and I have one of their armies resting under my Bruges city walls, for like 10 turns now, them not attacking, me not attacking.

    In that phase (and on that difficulty level) i don't have the feeling everybody gangs up on me, which is nice.
    Last edited by Vlad Tzepes; 11-22-2006 at 12:22.
    "Whose motorcycle is this?", "It's a chopper, baby.", "Whose chopper is this?", "Zed's.", "Who's Zed?", "Zed's dead baby. Zed's dead." - Butch and Fabienne ride off into the sunset in Pulp Fiction.

  5. #5
    Member Member Wallas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    The AI is going to betray you sooner than later. Sometimes alliances hold if the AI has better things to do with his armies than fight against you. Keeping large garrisons on the mutual border discourages the AI from breaking the alliances.

    For example I saw that the byzantines where coming to my territory. I quickly hired as much mercenaries as I could and hired more troops. Once the AI saw this they returned to their territory. We where allied but he clearly wanted to attack me.

    If you have strong carrisons the AI wil go around this normally by blocking your harbour. Sometimes this feateure seems very stupid like the AI didn't even mean to start the war but he just had to block my harbour.

    The diplomacy itself is quite easy. When making peacefull propositions allways try to get the proposition to balanced. If you have generous or very generous suggestion add a regular tripute to it and you can make a very good income for several turns. The only thing that might prevent this is that the other nation is broke during that turn. Wait for the next one.

    Also you cannot make alliances with someone if you are already allied with their enemy. The AI will allways refuse it.

    If you can't make a deal in ther first proposition and get toally turned down wait for the next turn. AI seems to allways reject the second proposition too.

    When making peace try to get more military power to the enemy's territory than he has. That makes him very willing to make peace and even give you regions if the AI calculates that he has no other choice. If you are attacking with only one army you will most likely get turned down.

  6. #6
    Member Member Sir SillyDuck's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    I agree diplomacy isnt that weird im mtw2. Realistic even. See my thread https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=72879. I really dont understand the flame/whine efforts to get this 'changed'. I can understand if people want more diplomacy options, but what would one suggest? There even is an option to ask another party to attack a faction. What more should be in the game to make it more functional diplomacy wise?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    Agree with Comrade Alexo. This game doesn't offer multiple paths to victory, it offers one - wiping out everyone in your way until you have enough provinces to trip the 'I win' switch.

    It's important to see alliances in the game for what they are - temporary 'fight together' pacts between competing factions. In a modern context, it's more like a loose cartel agreement between businesses than a permanent merger. Both sides pause to allow them to compete more effectively against other threats, all the while watching their back in paranoia.

    Another good comparison someone suggested was the pact between Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia. They were allies too until 1941, when Hitler invaded Russia causing Stalin to make the same sort of complaint as many members of this forum have made - "Hey, my totally untrustworthy backstabbing ally has just invaded me! The swine!". At least we forumites aren't executing the spies who brought us the bad news because we didn't want to believe it. Although I think some might if the game gave us the option...

    If the AI respects alliances for as much as 2-3 turns, that's great. You can't leave a skeleton garrison in any settlement bordering an AI ally unless you KNOW that their armies are elsewhere and there's an easier non-allied target they can be going for. Otherwise, prepare to lose an ally and maybe a city/castle and some troops, because you've done the equivalent of plonking a large and open bottle of brandy down on the table in front of a recovering alcoholic and walking out. Will he go for it? What do you think?
    Vignettes: England, France and the Holy Roman Empire.

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  8. #8
    1000 post member club Member Quid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    Am playing as England and have conquered all of France, some HRE and parts of Denmark.

    I am at war with Milan and Spain. I have one diplomat each at the northern Spanish provinces trying to convince them that peace is the way to go. They are not interested (even if I offer them large sums of money - just for fun).

    However, one thing did strike me as weird. They are currently on my land with two huge stacks of armies, yet, when I ask them for money (100 florins) the offer me 2000 instead - at times without even asking for anything. At other times they ask me not to attack. As I am not suicidal, I won't and let them pay me every turn (conceeded, they do tend to pay me less and less everytime).

    All this gives me a total of well over 3000 florins every turn as I have now decided to play the same game with Denmark.

    Peace (neutral stance) will not let you allow to use your diplomats to any further effect apart from using them to give presents.

    I wonder if anyone esle has tried this...if not, have a go and let me know...

    Quid
    ...for it is revenge I seek...


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  9. #9

    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    I dont know if you guys play dumb. I will try do explain it in simple words. You guys know what reputation is? I bet you do. So i got an ecxelent reputation in the game but the AI keep backstabing me. Does reputation works? No.
    Like i told, i had a marriage alliance with the french. My army was the strongest army in the face of the earth. Next turn after the aliance the french atack with a ridiculous army. Is there any reason in this behavior? NO, its ridiculous.
    I am crushing the french now, I offered all their citys back and a lot of money. The french sayd no as that ridiculous deameor stuff was allways down and down (i say: its mderator edit broken). Now the french died . The deamenor is working? NO.
    Now you tell me diplomacy is perfect. Now you tell me everything is allright. Now i tell you you are just blody fanboys and you will destroy this game!
    I wont say nothing about this mater anymore.
    Last edited by econ21; 11-22-2006 at 15:13.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member econ21's Avatar
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    Default Re: Diplomacy is bugged

    Well, it seems the original poster does not want to actually discuss anything in this thread, just brow beat those who won't join his rant.

    It's a shame because diplomacy is an important issue. But I think the topic might be more productively and civilly discussed in other threads.


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