Heraldry [Mod Component]

[Solo]

Since most of the emblems used ingame aren't even close to the historical ones (or at least the best choices for whole medieval era), I've planned to adapt my crusader kings mod to M2TW. As this is not really a mod by itself, I intend to release it as a base, usable by anyone in their mod. Obviously no way to test ingame for now so it's only a preview of what it should look like (a few details aren't definitive, like the outline difference between lion and eagle for example) in the diplomatic overview.



Like I do for the name patterns, I'll try to include some additional factions (thats why Bohemia is included in the preview). Still not sure what device/emblem I'll use for eastern factions.

[methoz]

very very nice...(My country - bohemia) looks great

[NagatsukaShumi]

That is a good idea Solo with alot of potential and of great use to historical modifications, I encourage your work to continue upon the patch release.

[Lusted]

Hmm, im trying to work out which symbol goes for which faction. My guesses are:

Poland, HRE, Sicily, Bohemia, Castille, Milan, Byzantium, France, England, Denmark, Scotland.

[methoz]

ok...al make symbols for Bohemia..but nothing make "war banners" for bohemia ?! (only Solo... ;) )

[Solo]

@Lusted
Third one is Hungary. Other than that, you got all of them :)


A few additions, but I'm still trying to figure something for eastern factions (I'm trying some banners but vector art don't work great for that).

Papacy, Portugal, Sicile, Genoa, Ireland, Venise, Moskow.
Bohemia, France, Russia, Lithuania, Sweden, Norway, Finland.



Papacy colours aren't the most common historically but these are better for gameplay (imo).
Sicile is 13th c., I'll include Hauteville as an alternate.
Genoa is an alternate for Milan too (historical banner), so it fits very well this faction slot.
Venise has alternate colours.
Moskow is an alternate for Russia, I have no idea what Novgorod arms could be (have to check).
Bohemia and France are just reworked versions.
Russia is the 15th c. emblem, obviously nothing before.



@Methoz
About the banners, I cant do anything before we got the unpacker. Until then I don't know their size, format and what can be modified.

[methoz]

yes, i know

edit - have our bohemian lion golden crown?
i dont see it :(

[Solo]

You're right, it's represented in all 13th and 14th c. rolls. Corrected it.

[Lusted]

@Lusted
Third one is Hungary. Other than that, you got all of them :)

Ah, thought it might have been Sicily because in the Chivalry TW mod for RTw they have a similar-ish banner for them. Though i quite like the HUngary symbol in vanilla M2TW.

[methoz]

looks good, but our lion have golden other things



but..its only small detail

your version is good

[Solo]

@Lusted
Arms from vanilla represent 15th c. Hungary.
About Sicile you probably mean these.



The Hauteville dynastic arms. It's one of the two possibilities but they may not have been adopted before 1189 (so it's a more hypothetic choice).

Last one for today. Alternate Lithuania.



Hope I got them right cause I have almost no reference seals for eastern heraldry.

@Methoz
You won't see the claws with the low picture size used by the game. They sometimes are blazonned gold in the rolls but its not very important in medieval heraldry believe me. So yes, it's details :)

[Apoc]

I would very much like to see Norway's banner. This made me want to take up my Norwegian CK game again...

[methoz]

i have question... is possible make "special" banner for "special unit" ?
i think - hussite banner for our Hussites army in game...
https://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9638/wagte9.jpg
https://img225.imageshack.us/img225/7179/husal2.jpg

i think - make banner after release of patch ....

[Solo]

I'm not onto banners yet :) We have to be patient for that unpacker. At least it gives me some time to work on the name lists. And I really really need to think of something looking good as a replacement for non-heraldic factions.

I'll gladly work on Hussites/Taborites banners but I'm really not sure if unit specific banners are possible (true modders will have the answer I guess).

[methoz]

yes,i know.... its only stoupit think :)

btw-
i have name and surname for bohemians...

[Solo]

A few more while waiting for that damn unpacker :)



Lithuana, Kingdom of Jerusalem, Hospitaliers de Saint-Jean, Teutonic order, Templiers and Santiago.

@Methoz
If you have a list I'd like to compare it with mine, or maybe send you mine so you can double check the spelling. I'll send you a PM with my beta list.

[Aenlic]

There is a great source here, Solo, if you aren't already using it:

Flags of the World - geographical index

Look for an historical section for each country. There may not be anything useful, in those cases where a flag didn't exist at the time, and sometimes there is only a description of possible flags; but generally it's a great place to look and the research done there is failry complete.

[Solo]

Thanks for the link. Yes, I know this one already of course :)
I must admit that I try to avoid internet ressources like plague since there are more things wrong than true when it comes to medieval heraldry. This one is not bad though and is even probably a huge ressource for later periods. Of course nothing is better than a good collections of seals, rolls and wall paintings but it doesn't help much when it comes to eastern nations : they are often attributed imaginary arms in the medieval rolls, most of the time some canting arms (like the three "rocs d'échiquier" arms for Morroco).

[methoz]

oh,sry...
i have now only bohemian male and female names
i lost list with surnames

and next problem - my list is in czech -with our ?? punctuation ??

"ě, š, č, ř, ž, ý, á, í, é"

isnt russian alphabet! we have normal alph...

[Solo]

sending you a PM Methoz :)

Czech alphabet is better. I'll see what works and what doesn't when the patch is out.

[shifty157]

Very nice work. Keep it up.

[Solo]

Since I joined the MA team, both heraldry and name projects are now a part of this mod.

[methoz]

isnt good for me :D :(