Spear/Javelin trick (long)

**Doug-Thompson** · 11-22-2006, 20:23

Tired of losing middling Muslim spear units to armored cavalry, I tried something I haven't seen referred to in the Org before. If someone did this in RTW and posted before, my apologies.

I put a unit of Saracen Militia into a "hedgehog" formation (proper term and spelling, please?) Behind them, I put one unit of skirmishing Kurdish javelinmen. Grassy plain, medium settings.

For the opponents, I chose Knights Hospitaliers. No upgrades on either side. Normal unit size.

In normal line formation, the knights would wipe out the spears and then the skirmishers, no problem.

This time, the knights charged the hedgehog. They caused frightful casualties, but the spear unit didn't run, and much of the impact of the knight's charge appeared wasted. Only the knights in the center made good contact. The wings just hit the open air.

The knights lapped around the spears and were in the process of killing them when this game's new, improved javelins hit. The knights backs were turned and range was close. The results were severe, more than making up for any "friendly fire" casualties. I'm sorry for not writing down the numbers and being more thorough.

Anyway, the knights had to break off combat with the spears and engage the skirmishers. Javelin-unit melee is not great but they didn't die off immediately, especially since they skirmished away at first. My remaining spearmen — all seven of them out of a unit of 75 — went out of the hedgehog and attacked the knights from behind.

The result: Not only were the Hospitalliers completely wiped out, but about half my spearmen and skirmisher casualties were either prisonsers who were returned to me or casualties who healed.

I tried the same thing in my Egyptian campaign game, only this time I had a siege to contend with. I had:

1. Two units of full-strength Saracen militia.
2. One under-strength unit (58 out of 75) Saracen militia.
3. Two units of Kurdish Javelinmen
4. Four Arab cavalry with javelins.

There were also a lot of Mamelukes Archers and melee cav I never used.

The city was defended by a Turkish family member with a full unit of bodyguard cavalry and two units of Turkish archers. My spy opened the gate.

The spears went in first, one behind the other in column formation. As they walked toward the city square, the defending archers began to fire and the bodyguard began to move. I went into hedgehog in the street.

The bodyguard unit attacked, then the javelins hit. The leading group of spears remained in hedgehog while the supporting two groups popped out and attacked. The bodyguard troops quickly died to a man. The Arab cavalry then attacked the archers in melee mode. While the enemy archers were fighting, my spears rushed up and finished the job. So did the javellinmen, who may not have the best melee but are good enough to kill archers.

**Oleander Ardens** · 11-23-2006, 08:48

Hm interesting, could you post a screenshot please?

Does I look perhaps like this?

Knights....................._______
..............................._______

Spearmen....................../\
.................................//.\\
Javs........................__________

Cheers
OA

**Only_A_Millitary_Genius** · 11-23-2006, 17:11

Assuming I understand "Hedgehog formation" that triangle should be a circle.

**Whacker** · 11-23-2006, 17:39

Doug, a few questions. Did the knights break off and come after your skirmishers when your spears routed? Or did your spears not route and they just decided to go after the skirmishers? Which unit was your general in, and when in the battle did he die (if he did)?

If that is the case, it would seem that this AI routine could be improved by simply waiting until waiting for the spears to route or be destroyed, then going after the skirmishers to avoid a rear attack.

**wraithdt** · 11-23-2006, 18:32

The hedghog formation you're speaking of is called schiltron in the game.

I've only just recently used it against the Mongols as I've never needed to prior to their invasion. Playing as Venice on H/VH, my units of 6 Italian Spear Militias held off a far superior and overwhelming force of Mongol Cavalry(various sorts) just outside my city walls(it was a siege assault).

After barely winning the battle I can safely conclude that almost any spear armed units in schiltron formation will cause massive damage to cavalry forces, thats if they're stupid enough to charge it.

**Doug-Thompson** · 11-23-2006, 18:48

Originally Posted by Whacker

Doug, a few questions. Did the knights break off and come after your skirmishers when your spears routed? Or did your spears not route and they just decided to go after the skirmishers?

The spears did not rout. The knights broke off and attacked the skirmishers after the first javelin throw, IIRC.

Which unit was your general in, and when in the battle did he die (if he did)?

The general did not die. He was in the spears. One of the advantages of the schiltron (thanks, wraithdt) is that the general is in the center.

Originally Posted by wraithdt

After barely winning the battle I can safely conclude that almost any spear armed units in schiltron formation will cause massive damage to cavalry forces, thats if they're stupid enough to charge it.

Not bad against other infantry, either.

Oleander Ardens: Yes, you have the idea. I'll try posting some screenshots, but it will be Monday at the earliest. I'm on my way out of town.