Relations worsened

[KeyserSoze]

Every turn I get this notification. I'm Sicily and my relations with every Catholic country is either very poor or abysmal. At the beginning of the game I allied with every faction, and haven't made war on one, with the exception of Milan making war on me.
I'm now on my 60th turn (0.50 years per turn) and I have been getting (for about 20 turns or so) worsening relationships with every Catholic country with the exception of the Papacy. I just got a message from England that relations had worsened. We haven't had contact for 30+ turns so I don't know how this happened. None of their spies were infiltrating my settlements, or at least none were caught. No assassination attempts.

What have I done wrong?

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

You mean something like this?

I can't explain it either.

[El Diablo]

Are you guys playing VH for the campaign???

I think that if you choose VH afor campaign all of your people contract halitosis, torrets and have a bad habit of picking their noses at the wrong time.

Noone likes you... *sigh*

Some times an aggressive church building enterprise will make the pope think your okay (but he will still send some inquisitors to check you out).

[Whacker]

Are you guys playing VH for the campaign???

I think that if you choose VH afor campaign all of your people contract halitosis, torrets and have a bad habit of picking their noses at the wrong time.

Noone likes you... *sigh*

Some times an aggressive church building enterprise will make the pope think your okay (but he will still send some inquisitors to check you out).

Don't forget the whole farting in crowded elevators bit either.

I suspect Mr. IposethequestionandIhaveaverylongnickthatsapaintotypeoutanditstrechesoutthescreenandmakesithardtorea dposts's issue is that he's... well, Muslim. The fact that relationships are worsening with all the Catholic factions for no readily discernible reason doesn't surprise me one bit.

Lastly, for the OP, as Sicily. That *is* a bit strange, and bears further investigation.

Cheers!

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

Dang, nobody has been able to pronounce my full name in my native alien tongue before. That's some quantum stuff there, don't let the kids see it.

True, catholics hate muslims. My question is why they waited till 50 turns into the game to start hating on Allah? Is 1132 the Year of the Allah Hating?

[Whacker]

Erm... Sucks not being able to edit my posts. I just noticed in Mr. Ipostthequestionandstillhaveareallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreallylongobnoxiousnickthat'sstillabigpai ntotypeoutandstillreallystretchesthehelloutofthescreen's map that he owns Jerusalem. $10 says that's your problem and cause right there.

Cheers!

[IPoseTheQuestionYouReturnTheAnswer]

Yeah true true, but at that point I had had it for a while and no crusades had been declared...does taking the holy city instantly make everyone mad at me? if so, it was kind of a delayed reaction. I guess news spreads slowly in the medieval world. Sucks not having cable TV.

[Lochar]

I am confused as well.

I started at default difficulty.

France attacked me.

Then after repulsed their attack and before I could attack them they requested a ceasefire. I did.

Then they attacked again later, so now the pope tells me to cease hostilities. I do but France rejects my ceasfire. Now I get relation drops when France was the aggresor each time, and its from several Catholic factions.

I have honored all pope requests and tried converting areas to catholicism but somehow I am losing favor.

Btw I am playing as the English.

[GrandInquisitor]

Turned into a bit of a diplomatic rant. For Catholic factions, as I've experienced in two campaigns (Medium campaign difficulty):

I think as your empire grows -- resources and manpower, not just land -- the game intentionally starts working more and more fervently against you. I say this in total seriousness. As the HRE in particular, I had alliances and very good relations with everyone for the first twenty or so turns. Then, after I'd taken some rebel settlements and was starting to rake in cash, Milan backstabbed me. Until I assassinated their family members and obliterated their faction after god knows how many turns of brutal war, I NEVER got a ceasefire -- offered or taken, even when I tried to give them huge amounts of cash. Only the Pope liked me, because I paid the first, and those since have been from my line of Cardinals.

Two turns after Milan's attack, Venice and Hungary allied against me and launched attacks as well -- BIG attacks that I barely held back. Denmark launched an attack the SAME turn as the other two somehow, and they are not fun to fight mid-game. My alliance with France simply vanished, but my spy network has kept them busy.

The stronger I became, the more relations simply dropped with everyone but my puppet Popes. I used two crusades just in the hopes of diverting the endless hordes enemies send against you (reminiscent of the miracle armies Egypt had in Rome, but coming from two or three settlements).

I hate that relations drop if you retaliate or defeat the enemy armies, because the tenuous grip on potential ceasefires evaporate in an instant. Either you accept getting punished and hope they offer a one or two turn peace treaty, or grind ahead and eventually smash them all. The only relief I got was that, when the Pope demands an end to hostilities, it means that you can't attack them; if they attack you, it's their problem, and no less than four factions were excommunicated for defying the mandate.

The ceasefire thing is what really gets me, and is perhaps my only complaint against the game. No matter how much you punish an enemy, they will NEVER sign a treaty, unless you cough up land or a huge cash wad -- and that's if you're lucky. And even when you get the ceasefire, they'll backstab you in a turn or two anyway, just like Rome.

Another reason I think the game works against you is what happened to my crusader state in Antioch (which was better defended than many of my European holdings). Egypt and the Turks, my buddies, let me have the city -- it was rebel when my Crusade stormed it. Milan and Venice were on the brink of defeat in Italy -- Milan about to die entirely. Egypt, for over ten turns, kept a full stack right outside of Antioch; the Turks kept skirmisher forces just outside Adana and Aleppo, which I annexed for buffers. The minute I conquered Milan and Venice, both my old 'allies' -- Egypt and the Turks -- mysteriously decided to attack me.

My empire's barely held on against the miracle, high tier stacks one and two city kingdoms throw at me regularly. When I should have had breathing room, I swear, the game was rigged against it. Every time you beat an enemy, another one will be raised against you -- ally or no. I'm a commercial player, not a blitzer, so the lack of diplomatic weight is a killer -- just like in the first Medieval.

[Kobal2fr]

I've seen a combination of factors. Relative power has an impact on reputation and alliances, an ally will dislike you if you rise faster than him. Contact has an impact, as I find over time relationships degrade all by themselves if you don't shell out the occasional 500 "Remember me ?" bucks or have any kind of diplomatic contact. How you play definitely has an impact too :

I once as the HRE was in good standing with all my neighbours and the Pope (not a small feat in and of itself I might add). Then I decided on a lark to invade Denmark, with which I was not allied mind you, we only had trade agreements. While the Pope backed me at first (I had full meter and a history of church building, the Danes did not.), over-time my pope-o-meter started to dwindle, which angered me a bit since my good, upstanding christian image and faith was being sullied, an image I had spent quite some cash on too. All the while I was still Friendly to So-so with the rest of my allies.

I then in the same turn moved on the Danish capital, defeated on the way a large Danish army taking *lots* of prisonners (including an heir, IIRC), executed them all and sieged Arhus. Next turn, I assaulted it, killed the king and burnt the city to the ground (slaughter population. I was in that kind of mood). Every other Christian faction instantly hated my guts, and so did the Pope. I was still listed as trustworthy, only I had become that generation's Rogue Empire of Evil, I guess. But in a trustworthy way. The Muslims didn't seem to care that much.

[AussieGiant]

I think that is the point GrandInquisitor and CA have stated it.

Once you become the pre-eminent super power then you can kiss your days of peace goodbye.

Kobal2fr,

I also think that is the way things are. Denmark is catholic and you are attacking it. Don't expect the rest of the world to sit around and wipe Denmark off the map and just say "oh well at least it didn't happen to us".

They will all hate your guts but your not untrustworth. It's not like you were allied, had made friends and then destroyed Denmark.

HYou always have to swap places with the AI and pretend you are them before saying all this is unfair.

[Werner]

As the HRE in particular, I had alliances and very good relations with everyone for the first twenty or so turns. Then, after I'd taken some rebel settlements and was starting to rake in cash, Milan backstabbed me.....I NEVER got a ceasefire -- offered or taken, even when I tried to give them huge amounts of cash.

Same here. I play my sweet ass time in this game and am only on turn 55 of HRE campaign. It seems that some nations, no matter how hard you try to be nice or forgiving, just don't care and will never ceasefire you. I've had this problem with Venice, Denmark, and Milan. All of which have been backed into a corner on the map, there is no chance of them ever fighting their way out, yet they spit on my diplomat everytime he offers peace. Doesn't seem right. I used to always be the player who beat a nation down, offered a ceasefire for all they had, and then just watched them for awhile. If they got too strong again I'd break ceasefire and beat 'em down again. That seems impossible to do in this game because the diplomacy is so screwy. I will say one thing though, I am currently allied with England, Egypt, Byzantium, and Russia and none of those countries have tried to back stab me yet. We will see how nice they are after I wipe several factions out, which is about to happen in the next few turns.

As for the original poster, I don't know why every turn relations would go down with all of the nations, but I do know that if you walk your troops through enemy territory without their permission you'll piss them off and usually get a "Relations Worsened" message pop-up. Took me forever to figure out why

[KeyserSoze]

Yep. What the hell's going on? It makes no sense. Some sort of compicated chain reaction relating to the diplomacy AI.

It needs fixing.

[Trithemius]

I found that even my allies get steadily annoyed with me if I don't keep bribing them.

I have also had absolutely no luck in persuading my erstwhile allies to help me fight off my enemies, even if I have bribed them up to Perfect relations. It's almost as bad for Military Access - I only managed to get a Military Access agreement with the Hungarians (with whom I had a marriage alliance).