Unknown Historical Figure

[Franconicus]

There are a lot discussions about Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Rommel, Napoleon and so on. We know a lot about them.

However, they are only part of the picture. There are mayn more, mainly unknown ones.

I open this thread to ask you to post people you know that are not so well known and give some additional colors to the picture!

[Ironside]

Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck

How deep into the the unknown are we willing to dive here anyway?

[Marshal Murat]

Gustav Mannerheim,
Finns know who he is, or they should.
A tsarist cavalry officer, he despised the Bolsheviks, and returned to Finland, helping the army build up. When the USSR made overtures to take-over, Mannerheim asked for more money, troops, weapondry, and military supplies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Gu...mil_Mannerheim

Awesome guy, I love him, don't know about the rest of Finland.

[Kralizec]

Gustav Mannerheim

Definetly one of the best generals during WWII (and some time before that)

[Innocentius]

Jasper Tudor - A background figure who helped shorten The War of the Roses

Birger Magnusson - Pretty much the founder of the kingdom of Sweden

The Unknown Soldier - The man who fought every war there has ever been, although he's rarely mentioned in favour for his generals and regents.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopold..._Anhalt-Dessau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_I_of_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedri...ohenzollern%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_...ich_of_Prussia
If only he had been Kaiser instead of his brother...

[Justiciar]

Emperor Norton. I love this guy. Seriously, he does sound like a decent bloke. I love the story about him halting an anti-Chinese riot simply by reciting the Lord's Prayer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_A._Norton

[AggonyDuck]

At heart I'm an anglophile/germanophile, so here are some of my favourite lesser known historical figures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_..._von_Gneisenau

Blüchers chief of staff and one of the reformers of the Prussian Army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedri...m_von_Seydlitz

A great cavalry general under Frederick the Great. He played a major part in several Prussian battles like Rossbach and Zorndorf.

Now to Brits from the 20th Century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Keyes

Propably my favourite British Admiral in the 20th century. Shame that his career peaked in early 1930's.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart

Propably one of my favourite British Generals of WWII. Didn't do much commanding due to his age, but he's still a very impressive person.

[KrooK]

Corporal John Wężyk - one of youngest soldiers of polish army revarded highest polish military order Virtutti Militari

[Incongruous]

Robert Fitz Roy and William D'Ypres. Two great commanders of the anarchy of King Stephen.

Harrald Hardradda. He is always remebered as that bloke who copped it at Stammford Bridge. There is so much more to him than just that.

General Baird, another great man. Ha he was always my favourite character in Sharpes Tiger.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Bopa refers to one Robert Fitzroy and I propose a second:

Robert Fitzroy, Captain of HMS Beagle and eminent scientist-philosopher in his own right. He contributed hugely to the establishment of the science of meteorology and was one of the Royal Navy's greatest surveyors - many of his charts of South America are still in use today, so accurate were they.

He was a man afflicted by poor fortune and his own manic depression - and suffered greatly in his own mind for being the man whose chose Charles Darwin as his naturalist on the second voyage of the Beagle. He was intensely religious, and the publication of the "Origin of Species" weighed hard upon his conscience.

Yet because Fitzroy was such a intellect, Darwin had a razor-sharp mind to hone his ideas upon during the long voyage, not least the struggle with his own faith.

Fitzroy may well have been remembered as a truly great man of the 19th century, had he not had the misfortune to travel with arguably the greatest man of that time.

I would recommend "This Thing of Darkness" by Harry Thompson as a very good read (fictionalised history) to understand the man alongside the biographies.

[Petrus]

Raoul Nordling, the Swedish consul-general in Paris in 1944.

He negociated truces between the resistance and the nazi army during the insurection.

He persuaded von choltitz, the german commander, to free thousand of men, women and children that were to be deported and not to destroy Paris monuments.


He personified courage, willpower and humanism, a great man indeed.

[Mithradates]

One of my favourites would have to be Perkin Warbeck. Pretender to Henry VII he basicaly annoys the hell out of Henry for a decade in numerous escapades :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perkin_Warbeck

[Perplexed]

King Athelstan of England. The real "Great" Anglo-Saxon king; he battered the Scots, Welsh, Cornish, and the Norsemen, and for the first time of any Anglo-Saxon king effectively extended English influence to the whole of Great Britain.

[Red Peasant]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart

Propably one of my favourite British Generals of WWII. Didn't do much commanding due to his age, but he's still a very impressive person.

Thanks. I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

[Marshal Murat]

So why can't I become Emperor Murat I of these United States, Protector of Mexico, King of Canada, and Inu-kitia of the Inuit, and High Councillor of the Jedi Council?

[Mount Suribachi]

Thanks. I thoroughly enjoyed reading that.

He has the CMG, which instantly makes him a hero in my book. That and the KCMG remain my 2 favourite gongs, if only for their exellent alternative meaning

I'm going to bring up the name of one Captain Valentine Todd. Trapped inside Ladysmith during the Boer War, he continued to insist upon playing cricket despite the siege. He was killed by an artillery shell whilst running up to bowl. Unable to prise the ball from his lifeless hand, the umpires declared it a dead ball. Upon such men were the British Empire built

[Franconicus]

Hans Beimler

Born 1895 in Munich Hans Beimler became locksmith. During WW1 he served on a minesweeper. 1918 he joined the soldiers council in Cuxhaven. He was one of the first members of the new founded communist party.

In 1919 he joined the defenders of the Council Republic of Munich. He tried to blow a bridge up to stop the advance of the counter-revolution forces. He failed, was arrested and imprisoned for two years.

Afterwards, he kept working for the Communist Party, was imprisoned several times. He was deputy in the parliament of Bavaria and Germany for several years.

After the Nazis came into power, Beimler was arrested again and brutally tortured. He was send to the new concentration camp at Dachau where he was tortured again and where he was called on to suicide.

Somehow he managed to kill a SS guard and escaped. He gave the first authentic report about the concentration camps. This report circulated in the German underground.

Beimler had to leave Germany. In July 1936 he came to Spain to support the fight against Fascism there. After the torture, he was not able to fight, so he became instructor and political commissar. Beimler was in opposition with the Stalinist part of the Republic.

In August 1936, when he inspected the troops, he was shot by a sniper. There are two theories. One says that Beimler was killed by assassins of the Stalinists. The other one says that he was killed by Fascist snipers.

When Beimler was entombed, more than 2 million Spaniards said goodbye. No Spanish king ever received such an honour.

[The Wizard]

Vilho Petter Nennonen, the Finnish artillery commander at the Battle of Tali-Ihantala, who managed to halt a Soviet numerical superiority of three-to-one, which was in addition bolstered by one of the most impressive artillery arrays seen in World War II, by extreme concentration of artillery fire that actually managed to equal and then surpass the Soviet barrage in effectiveness.

Considering that most of WW2 military deaths were caused by artillery, that is some serious kudos right there for operational and tactical ability. An oft-overlooked genius of arguably the most important military wing.

[Julian the apostate]

http://www.genealogyforum.com/gfaol/...tary/Irish.htm
Brigadier General Thomas F. Meagher

Meagher's idea of forming an all arms force was very modern. But in one respect he settled for the old ways. Rather than equip his men with modern rifles, he chose the Caliber 69 Model 1842 Springfield musket as the infantry weapon for the brigade. He believed that the Brigade's role would be to engage the enemy at close range, where the smoothbore musket firing buck and ball rounds would be most effective. Close range also meant using the bayonet, which Meagher believed the Irish would relish.

[Franconicus]

Hellmuth von Mücke (1881 – 1957)

This man was a famous commander, who never won a battle, a war hero transformed into a pacifist, an early Nazi imprisoned at Dachau; a figure in a difficult era in German history; a figure that shows that the stereotype of a Wilhelmine German does not always fit.

V. Mücke was born into a family of destitute nobility. He served as 1st officer on the Little Cruiser “SMS Emden” at the East Asian Squadron. He hoped to get promoted more rapidly there.

At the beginning of WW1 the squadron left Asia and tried to break through to Germany. The SMS Emden was ordered to leave the squadron and to raid Allied supply to distract the attention from the main forces.

Until end of 1914 the mission was very successful. At November 9th the Emden arrived at the Direction Island to receive supply and to destroy the radio station on the island.

Macke disembarked with a platoon of 50 soldiers with guns, pistols and 4 machine guns. It was his first command. He destroyed the radio sender. However, the sender had been cabling to an Australian convoy. The convoy sent the HMAS Sidney, a light cruiser, to look if there was something wrong on the island. There the Sidney met the Emden.

The Sydney was faster and her guns were bigger. The Emden was sunk soon. While the Sydney returned to the convoy, Macke and his men were cut off on the island. Luckily they found an old schooner, the Ayescha. They seized it and tried to reach Sumatra. However, the schooner had leaks, the English had damaged the pumps and in three of four tanks the water was spoiled. Furthermore they were stopped in the doldrums. Nevertheless, they managed to reach Padang in December. The town was a colony of the Netherlands and neutral, so they had to leave the harbour within 24 hours. However, they had been able to make an arrangement with a German merchant ship that picked them up. In Padang von Mücke had heard that Germany was allied with the Ottoman Empire and tried to get home via Arabia and Turkey. The Red Sea was blocked by the Allied fleet, so they disembarked at Hobeida. Macke’s goal was the Hedschas railroad that was supposed to cross Arabia from North to South. However, when he reached Houdaidan, he saw that the last part has not been finished. He and his sailors had to cross the desert. The Turkish governors blocked their way, because they wanted them to support against Arabian rebels. Von Mücke’s platoon had to return and tried to go north along the coast with two ships. One of them sunk on a riff. He finally reached the area of Dschiddah, where they landed and started to march to Mekka. A surprise attack of Bedouins could be repelled, but the situation was dangerous, as they run out of water.

Abdullah, the son of the Emir, mediated and soon the German soldiers were his guests. However, they found out that they were more prisoners than guests and decided to escape another time. They seized another ship and reach the northern end of the Red Sea in May 1915. Finally, the reached the railroad. In May they arrived in Constantinople.

They were the only sailors of the East Asia Squad that reached Germany during the war. Only six men had died during this Odyssey. Having received some decorations they were divided to different fronts. Half of them were killed within a short period.

V. Mücke served at the Navy until the end of the war. Due to his experience, he became pacifist and wrote some books. He also was nationalist. In 1919 he became member of the DAP (since 1920 NSDAP). For the NSDAP he was deputy in the parliament of Saxony. In the late 1920ies he left the party after some differences. During the government of Hitler von Mücke’s books were rated as “Bolshevik” and anti German. He was twice in the KZ and was prohibited to write. After his son died in WW2 von Mücke turned away from Nationalism.

After the war von Mücke got involved against the rearmament of Germany. Although he was blamed for being Communist and threatened with psychiatry the former war hero kept his pacifistic opposition.

[Keith_the_Great]

Battle of Dunnichen 684 AD

The Pictish King Bruide defeats the Pagon King Ecgfrith of Northumbria

probably most important battle in scottish history, rather than bannock burn or stirling brigade.

its a very interesting story, worth reading about

[Agraes]

Ecgfrith was christian, the fourth christian king of Northumbria after Oswald and Oswiu, first one beeing Edwin of Deira.

For those interested (its a bit out of subject ):

The battle of Dunnichen, also known as the battle of Nechtansmere, was fought on the 20th of May 685 AD. Of all the Dark Ages battles in Britain, it's probably one that have been the better reported, notably by the english monk Bede.

In 685 AD, most of the northern briton kingdoms have fallen to the growing power of the Angles of Deira and Bernicia, now united in the kingdom of Northumbria. The Gododdin had fall around 638 AD, and the Northumbrians were enough strong to control southern pictland and Dal Riada, after having defeated the Picts and even send an expedition in Ireland to size slaves.

But a new power rose in Pictland. Bridei III was the son of Beli, the king of Alcluyd, and grandson of the king Nechtan of the Picts. He rose to the kingship of Fortriu, and after several successful campaigns he was able to control most of Pictland and became a threat for the Northumbrian power.

Ecgfrith, the Northumbrian king, decided to invade Pictland with a strong force to stop Pictish raids in his own kingdom. The two armies met near Dunnichen, in Angus. Bridei divided his armie in two halfs, the smaller was waiting the Northumbrian army near a swamp, and the bigger part was hiding on the Dunnichen hills.

When the Northumbrians were enough close, the smaller part of the Pictish army feigned retreat and run. This was the moment Bridei was waiting to attack with the other part of the army. The Northumbrians, trapped in the marsh, were slaughtered, their king slain and survivors enslaved. The Picts, and their allies from Alcluyd and Dal Riada, were totally victorious.

This victory was decisive for the future of Scotland, and it has been argued that Scotland may have never existed in case of a Northumbrian victory at Dunnichen. It definatly free the Picts, the Dal Riadans and the Britons of Alcluyd of the anglian power, as a preparation for their future union.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Flavius Belisarius, Greeks would know who he was (or should). He was one of the greatest generals of the Byzantine Empire and one of the most acclaimed generals in history. But, he is not well known. He lead a sea and land expedition against the Vandals. He conquered Italy, and defended Rome against the Ostrogoths. He helped supressed the Nika riots. His last years as general was pushing the Bulgarian's back across the Danube. He was tried for corruption (many say he was judged by his main enemy). He was imprisoned, but pardoned by Justinian. He died in 565.

[Derfasciti]

Emperor Norton. I love this guy. Seriously, he does sound like a decent bloke. I love the story about him halting an anti-Chinese riot simply by reciting the Lord's Prayer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_A._Norton

Ah yes, that guy was on Weird U.S.A. on the History Channel.

[Justiciar]

Paddy Mayne. Watched a Documentory about him yesterday. Fellow was a madman, bless him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paddy_Mayne

[The Wizard]

Joseph Radetzky von Radetz, the great Austrian military mastermind who kept the ailing Habsburg empire breathing through the great trials of 1848. Would that he had lived longer, or was born later, for he would have met and overcome Moltke's match.

[Cangrande]

The fabulous crossdressing Prince Eugene of Savoy who gave a whole new meaning to army camp. Also one of the great commanders of his age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Eugene_of_Savoy