[QUOTE=Adrian II]
Shall we stay on topic and refrain from personal attacks? After all, what I wrote is nothing new or shocking.
Of course YOU DID

Historically speaking there have been many waves of antisemitism in modern Poland. Some were downright murderous, as when in 1941 the Polish inhabitants of the town of Jedwabne killed and burned the 1600 Jewish inhabitants of their town. The same thing happened in a host of other Polish towns that year. Need I point out other instances of Polish collaboration with the Holocaust or during the Warsaw ghetto uprising? This is all well-established, I think.
The problem is that Podlasia region is the ONLY ONE which experienced something like this. It is a LOCAL phenomenon - in NO other region NOTHING similar happened. There were FEW cases of such murders and they are investigated since Poland is free again.

Of course DO that - the cases of Polish collaboration are the MARGIN - there was NONE open collaboration, that is the main difference.
There was NONE organisation helping the Nazis to eliminate Jews only some criminal collaborators who were selling not only Jews, but resistence members and other people.
Poland was the only country which had Jewish party members in its government, Jewish branch of the resistence, special organisation to save tje Jews ( Zegota) - the INTEGRAL part of the resistence.
Not to mention such things like the Jewish units in the '44 uprising or the liberation of Gesiowka death camp by the resistence.


Over 100 000 Jews were saved by Polish citizens, despite the DEATH penalty given for ANY form of help as I am sure you are aware.

Aslo don't you see that the Jewish uprising was also Polish ? The Star of David was placed close to the Polish banner by the resistence fighters. They had support (limited - their mission was doomed and lack of resources was strangling the Polish resistence as well) of the Polish resistence.

Finally - don't you see that Poland was TERRORISED - Poles were exterminated too. People were taken in open human hunts on the streets. It was not France, Norway, Belgium, Denmark or Holland where collaboration was organised and supported, where Jews were transported (France) by state companies. No it was not.

Well established doesn't mean it is true ! For more than 45 years Poles couldn't defend themselves for the accusations made partly by ignorant, partly by extremists, partly by mentally scared who blamed those who were so close, but were also under terrible pressure.

I ahve seen other 'well-established' 'truths' - Poles are a robble, uprising of '44 was criminal adventure, Germans killed Poles in Katyn, Poland attackedn in 1920, Northern Korea was defending not attacking and many others - the well established MYTH of Polish collaboration exists, but how truth it is is a different question !

After the war, large sections of Poles from all walks of life persecuted the Holocaust survivors. There have even been post-war Polish pogroms, either encouraged or glossed over and ignored by both the Catholic Church and the Communists. In fact if there was one issue in which the Church and the Communist governments of the post-war period could agree, it was antisemitism.
Ohh Mr. Gross's works. They are hardly the reliable source - he is a journalist not a historian.

The case of the after-war pogroms is clearly a shame, but ( FEW) these were compensated by the fact of lack of any during the war.
Besides the fact that some Jews were seen in Soviet NKVD unfortuanatelly revievied some anti-semitic sentiments. It is a shame, but hardly a reason to poison the ORG with those anti-Polish accusations.

The last sentence is simply disgusting, Do you mean that John Paul II was anti-semitic ? Or cardinal Wyszynski ? Please enlighten me.


And even today, Polish government ministers indulge in the sort of antisemitic rhetoric I quoted above
.

That is a plain, ordinary LIE - NONE Polish minister used any form of anti-semitic rhetoric. In fact Poland is the CLOSEST Israel's ally in the EU.



It doesn't help anyone to deny that history and take offense at facts. And it certainly does not help Polish-Israeli relations to the point where Tel Aviv will hand over an Israeli citizen for prosecution in Poland in a highly politicised case like Mr Morel's.
What facts ? You are seriously biased.

I have spent years combating anti-semitism so I am all aware of its existence, but I am also aware of the anti-Polish stereotypes linked to this.

You have suggested:

1. That the Polish government is anti-semitic - Which is a LIE

2. That Polish courts are anti-semitc - Which is a LIE

3. That Poland supports anti-semitism - Which is a LIE

So I am asking WHY we are in the EU ?



@Stig

Guys keep it down, we had some fights about this before. Tarrak (Kraxis) isn't on lately not here nor at the Pond or the AO forums (because he has no internet atm), so he can't moderate this, but if this turns into a fight between our nationalistic Polish friends and the rest of the world I can easely send him a mail to check in again because some people have difficulties with debating, as a forum is all about debating

Some, I agree. Throwing accusations with NONE basis in facts is hardly debating. It is an INSULT.

And insults have to be dealt with, sometimes with pure facts, sometimes with a pounch to the face and if someone has been awarded as a historian he should be careful in extreme when using doubtful sources or soon we will see Holocaust deniers offending Jews in this forum too.