Units not in the game that should be?

[lancelot]

Good day forumites...A quick question for you history buffs.

Are there any unit types that are currently not in the game that most certainly should be? Especially regarding the Byzantines...

Cheers.

[econ21]

[Armchair historian mode on]

The Byzantines lack a kind of heavy spearman (skutatoi?) - big round shield, long spear, mail vest. They protected the foot archers and formed a base for the cavalry-heavy Byzantine army.

In the same vein - and fully filling the same function on the battlefield - the English really need a "spear" armed dismounted knight (or rather one with a cut down lance). It was the ability of these chaps to see off a cavalry charge that made the French knights start to dismount over the course of the HYW - as indeed other English knights routinely did in the Wars of the Roses.

These are the two big omissions that strike me, because they have such a major (and perverse) effect on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the armies concerned. It's strange why CA model the Byzantines and English as being weak at receiving a cavalry charge, as this was one of the things they had evolved to excel at (providing the base necessary for their archers to be effective against powerful cavalry-heavy foes).

I guess the omission stems from the artificial sword vs spear "rock-paper-scissors" thing TW has going. In reality, the skutatoi and anti-cav English men-at-arms were not distinct units from the sword-armed Byzantine infantry and dismounted English knights depicted in the game. Medieval melee troops usually had spears/polearms and swords (and often more), and could switch between them as desired.

[Armchair historian mode off]

[lars573]

Byzantine spearmen are close to Skutatoi. Close as your gonna get without modding. Funning thing is I've seen 2 descriptions of Skutatoi 1 has them wearing textile armour with a felt helemt. The other has them with a lamellar cuirass between 2 textile layers.

The only thing I see them missing is Stratiotai. Which I think I saw in the Venician roster.

[lancelot]

Interesting info, thanks.

Whats the deal woth Stratiotai?

Also what happened to that Pronoial ailagion unit (sp???) from MTW1?

I remember someone ages ago mentioning Tagmata...is that a formation or a unit?

[lars573]

Stratiotai are post 4th crusade kataphractoi/lancers.

Tagmata were an evolution of the Comitetenses and Palantinae forces. They full time soldiers stationed around Constantinople. Each was about 4000 (on average but the varation was given as 1000-6000) strong. There were about 6-8 each of cavalry and infantry. I've read 3 articles about and each translated the name "Tagmata" as a different modern formation. Battalion, regiment, and brigade were all used. I'd use regiment or brigade personally.

As for Pronoial ailagion I think that much like the schimitar swinging tunic wearing byz-inf from MTW they tossed it. But the description of the new Byz-cav ascribes those men as having pronoial land grants, the new byz-inf too.

[IrishArmenian]

Lowland nobles for the Scots. They have Highland Nobles, so why not Lowland ones? Lowland Nobles of course, would fight in a much different way, as they had contact with other forms of warfare (Welsh, Norman, etc.)

[Grifman]

[Armchair historian mode on]

In the same vein - and fully filling the same function on the battlefield - the English really need a "spear" armed dismounted knight (or rather one with a cut down lance). It was the ability of these chaps to see off a cavalry charge that made the French knights start to dismount over the course of the HYW - as indeed other English knights routinely did in the Wars of the Roses.
[Armchair historian mode off]

The British do have this with some of their dismounted knight units that have polearms. The problem is that there is a bug where once the cavalry charge is over, they don't attack any more and get slaughtered. This should be fixed in the patch.