No Gore

[andrewmuir]

As yet I have only played deos as I patiently await the arrival of M2TW. But it struck me after I had massacred (lets be honest - defeated) the french at Agincourt that there was neither mud nor blood. I assume that this is just the demo so it is available to everyone because otherwise there is an obvious lack of realism. Is there a gore option in the full game? After all War is no game!

Andrew

[MSB]

For mud and blood you need your graphics settings on full. Try that and you should be able to see some good old medieval blood and gore.

[andrewmuir]

In the demos? I think not. But anyway you have put my mind at rest if not in peace- Thanks

Andrew

[Roy1991]

In the demos? I think not. But anyway you have put my mind at rest if not in peace- Thanks

Andrew

There is blood in the demos.

[andrewmuir]

There is blood in the demos.


Not a drop!! Least not on my screen. I played the Battle of Trebia in the RTW demo at maximum detail. I then released the Carthaginian Hordes (Ctrl A) on one legion and went in close to seek the smallest corpusle. Even when the elephants trampled over the prostrate bodies there was nothing to be seen but pristine corpses. Definitely sang froid.

Andrew

[Samurai Waki]

Well, its never been about the blood and guts, but the tactics. Yes visuals are all very nice, but not necessary. Most people get the general idea that a guy is dead when he's on the ground and not moving...

Having said that, RTW lacks any gore level, but I think there is at least one mod for it

MII:TW however does have it, and personally, it doesn't add anything to the game for me.

[Warluster]

I have got only the Demo and when the arrows went into the charging knights blood went high up into the air, theres heaps of blood on mine and i have it on low for everything! But no mud...

[Monarch]

There is blood in the demos.


Not a drop!! Least not on my screen.

Andrew

Then its you're screen and I suggest you seek technical support. Because, there is blood in the demo.

[Roy1991]

There is blood in the demos.


Not a drop!! Least not on my screen. I played the Battle of Trebia in the RTW demo at maximum detail. I then released the Carthaginian Hordes (Ctrl A) on one legion and went in close to seek the smallest corpusle. Even when the elephants trampled over the prostrate bodies there was nothing to be seen but pristine corpses. Definitely sang froid.

Andrew

Uhm, so you're talking about the RTW demo now?
What does that have to do with the MTW2 Agincourt demo?

[andrewmuir]

Uhm, so you're talking about the RTW demo now?
What does that have to do with the MTW2 Agincourt demo?

Right. Once I had downloaded and played the M2TW demo I removed it as it took up too much space while I awaited the arrival of the real thing.So I downloaded RTW demo and there was no blood. Clearly Sega have taken the decision that gore is is part of life (and death) and in my view rightly included it.

I also agree with the assertion that the game is about tactics and for many people the earliest wargames had neither visuals nor sound. But if we really want to understand about making tough decisions in realtime then the durection that these games is taking is in my view the correct one.

I would put one suggestion for a mod. Playing in realtime really means that one shouldn`t press the PAUSE button. However it would help us tyros if one could slow down the game while maintaing the action moving.. just a thought.

Andrew

PS I`m not really a blood and guts guy - just trying to up my posts.

A.

[naut]

Welcome and enjoy your time here at the .Org !


Rythmic

[caravel]

[Rant][Die Hard Total War Fan]Unfortunately alot of games have gone down the bloodthirsty route, and TW looks set to join them. Personally I don't think there should be any blood in M2TW. The game is about tactics, strategy, building and maintaning an empire, raising armies to conquer the world and managing all of that as effectively as you can. Since RTW, TW games have gone down the route of eye candy and effects. When I play a TW game I don't need to see the enemy hacked up and dismembered with spurts of blood flying in all directions. Unfortunately, for some players, anything less isn't good enough. They call it "realistic". They don't give a damn if the English had mounted longbows shooting fire arrows or if the Egyptians had war elephants with cannons, just so long as there's realistic modelling, gore, gallons of blood and plenty of eye candy. If you're actually playing the TW battles correctly you should be zoomed so far out that you won't be able to even see the gore, or even the different individual heads, shields, clothing and armour. The day CA started concentrating on the battlefield eye candy was when we were given RTW.

As for the old "it's medieval warfare, it was bloody and brutal" line. To me that still seems like a lame excuse for wanting blood and gore for the hell of it. Next thing there'll be people wanting to personally execute prisoners one by one in whatever fashion you desire, torture, rape, burn villages, massacre women and children etc (I did actually see threads like that at the .com). There has to be some abstraction. Flashing green markers didn't appear on battlefields either. Blood belongs with the aformentioned aspects of mediaval warefare, not in the game.

Like RTW, M2TW can be modded, so hopefully many of the problems will be addressed. RTW is alot better with the RTR mod installed. There are other mods also but I've not tried those as yet, doubtlessly equaly as good/ So it seems that CA are going down the route of satisfying the mainstream gamer and the hardcore TW fans will have to rely on the modders. This isn't so bad I suppose.[/Rant][/Die Hard Total War Fan]

@Rythmic: That diagram looks about right.

[andrewmuir]

I know the publisher is Sega but I assumed they had some input.

If you just want the tactics then avoid pressing INSERT.

If you don`t want reality get out your chess set.

If you think I`m spamming then have me booted. I just hate that portrait.

I`m very happy to be a part of this community and learn from those who have been TW fans from the beginning.

For me I like the reality of a battle - especially when I`m winning.

Andrew

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

There is blood in the game and Demo..

[Roman_Man#3]

If you don`t want reality get out your chess set.

If you think I`m spamming then have me booted. I just hate that portrait.
Andrew

two things. chess is reality, and you need tactics to win. secondly, you can(or should IIRC) change your portrait with out being a full blown member.

[caravel]

I know the publisher is Sega but I assumed they had some input.

They have some input, but at the end of the day they have to let the developers do their jobs. Sega are the parent company, and so obviously the publishers, CA are the devlopers and always have been. If anything Sega are pretty much blameless for anything that anyone doesn't like about TW games, because it all started to go wrong when the publishers were activision.

If you just want the tactics then avoid pressing INSERT.

Maybe I'm a bit thick, but I didn't get that one, sorry.

If you don`t want reality get out your chess set.

Of course, chess!!! How could I be so stupid. This is clearly a case of black and white... Either I want horrendous levels of blood, gore and graphic slaughter and dismemberment, or obviously TW games, or any computer game, is not for me, I should dust off my chess board and pieces and play that instead.

If you think I`m spamming then have me booted. I just hate that portrait.

change the portrait to another or select the "do not use an avatar option" from your UserCP.

I`m very happy to be a part of this community and learn from those who have been TW fans from the beginning.

Well personally i'm happy to see all new members. It's what keeps this place alive and interesting.

For me I like the reality of a battle - especially when I`m winning.

Andrew

People buy this game for different reasons. Some want to see the graphical representation of the battles and the rest doesn't interest them much. Other prefer the campaign maps. Really this board has three main types of members:

1) Those that came from STW/MTW and played the single player and/or multiplayer game and stopped at that, not liking RTW.

The rightly guided ones, followers of the true path, into the west.

2) Those that moved on from STW/MTW onto RTW and then possibly M2TW and may play that in SP/MP. Many of these may play one or more of the popular mods for RTW.

The traitors, condemned to eternal damnation until the time comes when their lord releases them. They took the eastward path.

3) The newer members that started out with RTW or M2TW.

The unguided ones. Those who have not yet found the true path. Occasionally one of these finds the true path, and sets sail into the undying lands in the west to join his brethren.

The 3rd type of player has not experienced the earlier games, so cannot apreciate how it was before, the dark times. They see these games from a different perspective. for us old TW players it is moreso about th strategy and tactics, and not about the eye candy. I care more about game balance, historical accuracy and non graphical realism than I do about units with randomised heads or realistic grass etc.

[Roman_Man#3]

Manco Capac, just as you started sounding serious, you made a Lord of the Rings analogy/joke. shame on you.

[naut]

If you just want the tactics then avoid pressing INSERT.

I'm so confused, can you run me through this one.

If you think I`m spamming then have me booted. I just hate that portrait.

It was a joke mate.

BTW, when is M2TW released in your neck of the woods?

[caravel]

Manco Capac, just as you started sounding serious, you made a Lord of the Rings analogy/joke. shame on you.

Me? Never.

[Roman_Man#3]

Me? Never.

hahaha. whew. you had me worrying there. i didnt think you would. but still. you cant ignore the head.

[Steinfeld]

As for the old "it's medieval warfare, it was bloody and brutal" line. To me that still seems like a lame excuse for wanting blood and gore for the hell of it. Next thing there'll be people wanting to personally execute prisoners one by one in whatever fashion you desire, torture, rape, burn villages, massacre women and children etc (I did actually see threads like that at the .com).

Don't tell me you never wondered why you can NOT just send back the head of an enemy diplomat in STW. If I ever had the desire for blood in a TotalWar game, that was the it.

[caravel]

Don't tell me you never wondered why you can NOT just send back the head of an enemy diplomat in STW. If I ever had the desire for blood in a TotalWar game, that was the it.

Never really worried me. If I wanted to be rid of a rival faction emissary I would order their assassination. Also, that is not the "blood and gore" thagt I'm talking about. Any reference to violence in the campaign game is highly abstracted. The real time battles are a different thing altogether, as they are attempting to simulate, through 3D graphics, a medieval battle. This is where the whole blood and gore crops up.

[andrewmuir]

I cannot quote everyone but here are some replies.

1. Pressing insert takes you in close.

2. I thought spamming was advertising. I eat enough SPAM in the war not to have to bother again.

3. I actually bought Shogun and never got into it. M2TW interests me not because of the detail, although that helps, but because I am interested in European history especially from the start of the middle ages in 600AD or thereabouts. I studied in some detail Belsarius`s reconquest of the Roman Empire under the leadership of Theodora.

4. I chose to open the topic because it just seemed strange to me that I could see no blood. I confess I am a Martin Scorcese fan but mostly because he chooses actors who can bring out the reality of violence but even he is not averse to show a little gore now and then.

5. I have enjoyed the debate, but don`t be deceived - I have a huge amount of respect to those who have the patience and imagination to master strategic war games.

Andrew

[naut]

1. Pressing insert takes you in close.

Oh yeah, right in RTW it does.

3. I actually bought Shogun and never got into it. M2TW interests me not because of the detail, although that helps, but because I am interested in European history especially from the start of the middle ages in 600AD or thereabouts. I studied in some detail Belsarius`s reconquest of the Roman Empire under the leadership of Theodora.

Yeah, I'm not a great fan of Japan either.

By the way, have you got M2TW yet or are you still waiting?

[andrewmuir]

Oh yeah, right in RTW it does.


Yeah, I'm not a great fan of Japan either.

By the way, have you got M2TW yet or are you still waiting?

Still waiting but I have an Australian friend comingto stay next friday and if it doesnt come by Wednesday he will buy it and bring it. A small price to pay but if the original turns up I`m sure I will find takers here in Santiago.

Andrew

[naut]

Ahh.

[Bellum]

...Chess is awesome! D:


And no, blood and gore doesn't really 'add' anything to the game mechanics, but do you not enjoy 'atmosphere' at all? The potental of the second engine. The sounds of battle, the screams, the arrows that you can hear enter the enemys flesh.


And most importantly the individual soldiers.

[naut]

...Chess is awesome! D:

Yep

And no, blood and gore doesn't really 'add' anything to the game mechanics, but do you not enjoy 'atmosphere' at all? The potental of the second engine. The sounds of battle, the screams, the arrows that you can hear enter the enemys flesh.


And most importantly the individual soldiers.

Yes its a nice addition, but its not key to me. AI being good and the strategy is what I care about.

[andrewmuir]

Yep


AI being good and the strategy is what I care about.

In most games of strategy or action the trick is to discover how the AI is working. AI is good if it is difficult to predict and behaves as you would expect , by hindsight, how the most brilliant strategists would act.

Andrew

[naut]

In most games of strategy or action the trick is to discover how the AI is working. AI is good if it is difficult to predict and behaves as you would expect , by hindsight, how the most brilliant strategists would act.

Exactly. But in a game it is hard to implement this.