M2 Test Imperial Orders Thread

[Strappy Horse]

I have to agree with Flydude here, looking at Bologna, I've found the same. The numbers do add up nicely. Admin is included in the total income, and corruption is substracted from that. Result is the net income that is shown under the city name, and as net income in the city overview.

About the King's Purse, after a quick survey through my save games, I think it has to do with the number of (grand)sons of the royal family.
In 5 save games in follows the pattern of 500 florins per son (own or married) of the king and the heir.

Some examples:
-In our case we have a king and 2 sons, = 3*500 = 1.500
-In my Milanese save Duke Catelano does not have sons, but his brother and heir has 2 sons. 4 male characters in the ruling family account for a King's purse of 2.000 florins, which indeed it is.
-In my French save, King Louis has 1 son and heir, one grandson, the king himself, for a King's purse of 1.500

[Lucjan]

Ok, I think everybody's got the idea of what happened now.

I was doing this.

3158+4505+192-58=7797
I.E. Ducal Total Income + Imperial Income & Purse + Positive Corruption - (Positive corruption - Negative Corruption)

FlyDude has much simplified this procedure by noting that I overlooked the fact that negative corruption is already deducted from the accounts. So For Bologna, which reads as 1156 income on the screen, should actually read as 1239. and Vienna which reads as 1274, should read as 1325. Making the proper formula...

3158 (Total Ducal Income as Displayed) + 134 (Negative Corruption as shown in the Financial Overview) + 4505 (Imperial Income and Purse) = 7797 (the correct number)

And as for the upkeep, thanks to both econ, flydude and strappy horse for pointing out that I'm a silly fool and neglected to notice the obvious difference in retinue sizes for regular generals as opposed to the prince and emperor, therefore the difference in prince and emperor's upkeep. Off to work on the turn now that everything pans out correctly.

[Lucjan]

(OOC) Ok, awesome news for everybody.

Now that we've finally got all the bugs worked out of our system. I've gotten through turn 1, we're starting turn 2. Everything adds up properly, and Hamburg has fallen to the Imperial army.

A few notes. Merchant income doesn't add to the local city/castle income, so I took the liberty of adding it to it in the individual ducal budgets myself, with a side note of our total merchant's income for the whole of the HRE.

Also, Venice offered a trade agreement and gave us map information.

Anndd..(this is jumbled I know, but I've been up for 27 hours now), when you conquer a settlement, the florings gained from the conquest need to be added to the total overall income otherwise it doesn't quite add up, and also to the Empire's income for this turn, otherwise you'd be jipping the empire of hard earned cash (neglected to reflect this in the income of the Imperial budget, but did put it where it belongs in the overall income....I've been up too long, going to bed in a minute).

Individual town incomes change slightly each turn due to harvest, taxation fluctuation, admin skill, etc, so need turn by turn updating, as well as the issue of the "projected" treasury not actually being the treasury we end up with because of transitional events.

I.E. Venice offered us the trade agreement on their turn, we didn't do it on ours, so the income increase from that occurred after all our calculations for the next turns treasury had already been complete. I solved this by simply taking the new treasury, subtracting our total duke's projected starting balance for turn 2, and using the difference as the Imperial coffers new starting balance, allowing Imperial coffers to absorb both the fluctuation in harvest and taxation, and the increase in trade level.

Also...we hadn't thought of this. In the event soldiers are captured by an enemy army, who pays for their release? I think the owning duke should pay, it makes it more interesting that way. Or in the case of the Imperial Army, the empire's coffers pay.

Anyway... Bottom line, we've got everything working properly now and the game can commence without issue.

In the event that others may not wish to handle the finances aspect of the game, I'd be willing to deal with this at the end of each orders phase as a treasurer. I get a weird sense of accomplishment out of this. While still allowing the construction/recruitment/movement to be carried out by a seperate chancellor who wouldn't have to worry about the financial part. (Something like a co-consular arrangement, except the extent of my power would be to manage the overall finances and, obviously, my own dukedom.)


EDIT - Here is the latest financial record.

And the newest save file. http://www.totalwar.org/patrons/pbm/...M2HRE-PBEM.zip

[Tamur]

Very impressive work Lucjan and econ, good pursuit of the problem without giving up. You have proved to me once again why I flee in fear from accounting topics!

[Strappy Horse]

Looking good Lucjan!
One minor thing, if I made a correct estimate of the construction costs, they are included in the totals for round 2, but I don't see them in the purchases column.

EDIT: Never mind, they were purchases from round 1, not round 2.
Still, is it usefull to change the format a little to show the purchases we've ordered for the last round?

[Lucjan]

Thanks Tamur.

And not sure what you mean Strappy Horse. Are you saying you want me to add a column that details what you spent money on last turn? Because reminding players what they spent their own money on could get rather lengthy, and I'm not entirely sure how helpful it'd be if the money is already spent. On the other hand, I could see the benefit of adding another column that just says "Last Turns Expenditures" with a total of that player's spent florins from the last turn. If that's what you meant to begin with, sorry, just a misunderstanding on my part.

EDIT - Considering all players will have access to the save file on a turn-by-turn basis for the purpose of reviewing their duchy and giving new orders, I think it shouldn't be a problem for players to be able to see where there money's gone. Again maybe I'm just confused.

[econ21]

...I could see the benefit of adding another column that just says "Last Turns Expenditures" with a total of that player's spent florins from the last turn.

Good idea and to make it easy, I suggest that in our orders phase, we each detail our proposed expenditures and provide the total to save you some work (and allow double checking for errors).

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Also, Lucjan, it might be good if you posted in bold caps:

TURN 2 ORDERS PHASE STARTS

and then 48 hours make another post later:

TURN 2 ORDERS PHASE ENDS

Each Duke should only make one post between your bookend posts, but we could edit them to revise them. Once you have closed the orders phase, then we are not allowed to edit our post (orders) anymore. Doing it this way might keep things tidy and easy to manage.

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Tamur: on the knights you wanted, I suggested that we formalise contracts in the orders phase. So you could type something like:

"Contract Vienna 1: Duke Leopold offers Duke Otto X florins for one unit of mailed knights, to be trained immediately."

And I would reply

"Contract Vienna 1: accepted."

And at the same time, I would give orders for the unit to be training.

That way, it's all in black and white for everyone to see.

As for what X is, I suggest purchase price 680 + 25% = 850

Sorry I did not do this last turn - I did ask you to formalise it and then you said something about mounted knights being no good defending in a siege. If it is the dismounted knights you want - which I agree are a more useful unit - they will require a castle be built in Innsbruck first.

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We really should start putting posts like this one of mine in the OOC thread and devoting this thread only to orders.

[Strappy Horse]

On the other hand, I could see the benefit of adding another column that just says "Last Turns Expenditures" with a total of that player's spent florins from the last turn.

That's what I meant, for the dukes, I think it's useful to see in one overview, 'this my income, these were my expenses, and this is what I have left' I agree with Econ21 though that the dukes can also show their expenses in their orders post.