Excommunicated!

**Vicarious** · 11-24-2006, 10:06

In my campaign as Spain on VH/VH, the Pope early got me excommunicated for my aggression against the Portugese (which was actually just self-defense, but that's another discussion..).

For 30-40 turns now, it hasn't mattered that much to me. But now it's starting to be a pain in the ass. The 20% excommunication effect to public disorder is really bad for my growing settlements, and my economy suffers because I have too keep taxes on low. And worst of all: The pope has announced a crusade against Antioch, which I'm shut out from. And I really really really want to!!

So, what to do? I have been a good catholic, building churches and Priests and chasing the Moors out of Europe preaching theire land into catolism (which have brought me from 0 to 4 crosses on the "Pope-scale")..
Of course I have sent a diplomat to the Papal States, begging the Pope for reconciliation every single turn... But there's no mercy. Just to check out, I have offered him all that is possible to offer. That means, to give him all my regions plus max regular tribute for many turns. The offer is always "we cannot quite accept this.." or something. (I think there is no point of offering this much anyway, just for testing. Giving one lousy region + a low tribute also brings the offer to "balanced", and the same answer as with 10 regions + 100000 florins). I also try to slowly build up the diplomatic relationship, it is now "reasonable". My reputation is "untrustable" though, I'm not sure why. My diplomat is only subterfuge 2. Maybe I should get a better diplomat. But how?

Well, hello Pope! What's to loose, man?? You get regions and tributes, and you obtain another nation with war-hungry men to participate on your crusade. This just isn't right.

So, any advice here?
I really need to be on this crusade..

**BigTex** · 11-24-2006, 10:13

Hmmmm, first a question. Is your heir a solid general?

Maybe its time your faction leader took a ship to fight some pirates with. Get a really weak ship, one thats preferably very low on men. Stick only your faction leader on there. Go out to sea and let that ship get sunk somehow.

I would also suggest that after you kill off your king and get reconciled. That you tribute the church 500-700 a turn for awhile, nearly guranteed to raise your standing to perfect.

**PaulTa** · 11-24-2006, 10:33

Yeah, it's not that hard of a process to stay on the pope's good side. I have a diplomat camped outside of Rome as HRE, and every turn I make a couple of three hundred florin gifts. I'm at war with five catholic factions, and my standing hasn't dropped much lower than 8 crosses since the last forty turns.

Think about it like this... nine hundred florins a turn in donations secures you A) Rights to initiate conflict with other catholic factions without excom, and B) the ability to pick crusades with almost a guaranteed chance of success, not to mention C) other catholic factions without such a high standing with the big guy get excommed for attacking you.

**Vicarious** · 11-24-2006, 12:06

Originally Posted by BigTex

Hmmmm, first a question. Is your heir a solid general?

Yes, I think my heir has pretty much as good stats as my king.
And I think I could come up with a good way to give him a heronic death, alone against a full army stack of Moors..

But it's still bitter to loose a good general/governor. Is this the only way out? And am I certain to get reconciled if my king dies?

You guys agree that it is kind of "buggy" that the Papal States won't accept 10 good provinces to reconcile my faction?

**Vlad Tzepes** · 11-24-2006, 12:20

Originally Posted by Vicarious

You guys agree that it is kind of "buggy" that the Papal States won't accept 10 good provinces to reconcile my faction?

Noooo! You shouldn't even think about bribing the Holy Father!

**Vicarious** · 11-24-2006, 13:45

Originally Posted by Vlad Tzepes

Noooo! You shouldn't even think about bribing the Holy Father!

Hey, I'm not trying to bribe the holy father himself... I'm trying, as an experiment, to give him 10 provinces in exchange for Spain being reconciled.. Wouldn't that be a fair deal? (for him...)

Regarding what JFC says, I have a question:
It is the Cardinals and Prefarities which get to be voted on as a new pope, right? And they are only Priest. Is it so that when they win the Pope-election, they turn into a General which can fight battles? (and hence, get killed...)

**JFC** · 11-25-2006, 13:14

Yeah he does turn into a General. Ripe for stomping on.

**JFC** · 11-24-2006, 13:10

Originally Posted by Vicarious

Yes, I think my heir has pretty much as good stats as my king.
And I think I could come up with a good way to give him a heronic death, alone against a full army stack of Moors..

I did a similar thing. I was excomunicated. Sent the King off against a four stack Venician army and he only sodding won! Then he died... of old age... Ahhhhh.

HOWEVER, the Pope still said hell was too good for me. That was it. I levelled Rome and killed the pope. Which was nice.
Round 1 of votes put in a Pole. (I was at war with) When I found his roming army I put him out of his misery.
Round 2 put in a Venetian (again at war) So when he actually landed in England he was soon found by my English Knights, so it was Good Knight Mr Flavious!

Round 3 put in Mr Smith from Peckham and all was forgiven!
What was even better is that Sicliy was laying seige to Rome, so I evacuated. Rome rebbelled against its new Sicilian rulers and became Papal with Sicily being Excommunicated. Glory Be, this is our finest hour!