Medieval II Total War and EB2: suggestions for the team.

[NeoSpartan]

Just want to inject my own thoughts here-

I have played M2TW for a few weeks (on and off), and it actually isn't bad. It isn't the most historical game, but there is nothing that would hamper a serious overhaul of the game to make it historically accurate to the Medieval period.

The battles are quite harried, but the actual AI action is not so bad; it certainly acts with a lot more cohesion than it did in RTW.

That being said, there is no way that EB will work for M2TW. It has too many time-specific features to be worth the effort.

Actually, I think it will be well worth the effort.

BUT, u are right that MTW2 has many time specific features, and others are too far streched. So, I think that for EB2 the Devlp. team shouldn't break its head trying to incorporate everysingle feature of MTW2.
-A few of the features I see as unnessesary for EB are:
--Religios agents (priests, excomunators, and the like)
--Merchants.
--The whole deal of extending the map for the Americas.

Those are the ones I can think off.

[Anthony]

Merchants would be of great use. Trade was a big issue, and there were monopolies on various types of goods and what not. Religion can also be used, because it was also an issue (pagans did not all get along; I think the British druids would attest to that if Romans, also pagans at the time, hadn't slaughtered them), though it might be changed to something more relevant.

[NeoSpartan]

Merchants would be of great use. Trade was a big issue, and there were monopolies on various types of goods and what not. Religion can also be used, because it was also an issue (pagans did not all get along; I think the British druids would attest to that if Romans, also pagans at the time, hadn't slaughtered them), though it might be changed to something more relevant.

Religion yes. But not to the exent of M2TW. It is simply streching Religion too far. Yes Crusades and Jihads did take place but NOT that often, Inquisitors didn't go creazy killing ur generals & priests since 1090 when the game begins. Just to name a few streches....

Now merchants.... In and then u get an income from that merchant being on that resource.M2TW u put a merchant next to a resource Thats how it works, u can put more, ur merchant get expirience, etc.....BUT if we look at the TON of resources in EB (get the Resources patch, or just wait for .8) and that would be just too much micromanagment, cluttering, and not at all useful. (This merchant thing is borrowed from Rise Of Nations, a horribly unhistorical and just plain lame game in my opinion). Besides controlling provinces in resorce rich areas and Trade Rights make a LOT more sence.

[Conqueror]

Religion can also be used, because it was also an issue (pagans did not all get along; I think the British druids would attest to that if Romans, also pagans at the time, hadn't slaughtered them), though it might be changed to something more relevant.

I've been under the impression that the druids were eliminated not because of any religious conflict, but because they held great political influence among the Celts and were therefore a political threat to Rome's rule. Many Romans themselves were inclined to worship gods outside of their traditional pantheon.

[Dumbass]

Now what religions would there be for EB2? Would the Roamns follow the same religion as the greeks (Their religion was almost identical) or their own? Would there be different pagan religions or just all blended into one, like in Baba.

[Krusader]

Now what religions would there be for EB2? Would the Roamns follow the same religion as the greeks (Their religion was almost identical) or their own? Would there be different pagan religions or just all blended into one, like in Baba.

Definetly not regarding pagan religions.

For the Celts, religion was very important and as I recall it was heresy to introduce other gods into their pantheon. Any ruler would have to follow the "laws of the gods" and it seems the celts were more rigourous in seeing that it was really done too.
For the Greeks & Romans, they would probably identify other gods as their own, while other religions again I'm unsure off, but one reason the Ptolemies managed to survive for around 300 years was because they worshipped and built temples to the Egyptian deities.

As for how we will use the religions, we don't know yet and discussions will probably begin in more earnest when we know if MTW2 can be modded so that it will be worth the effort to mod EB2.

We hope religions & jihads can be used to represent migrations, but I'm betting it can be difficult.

[Tellos Athenaios]

As for castles and such: you can't alter the tax rate, so it makes most sense to have them in regions with type 3 or 4 government buildings (to reflect both the fact that this region has to be able to defend itself on it's own and that the far off 'protector' imposes minimal 'government'/ law there). I'd suggest you keep their basic use the same as in M2TW, that is that of a 'military settlement'. So don't make castles a government type building, leave them as a different type of 'governors house' as they already are.

On the merchants topic: from what I have experienced, they're simply meant to be used abroad. You don't make much money having them standing on your own resources, they're far more profitable somewhere far away. Now point is that they're ideal agents to manipulate relations with and treasuries of other factions, since whatever they do it's not an act of war, but neither is it very pleasing to other factions. Since their use has been limitted to making money and 'eliminating' other merchants only, it's a bit of a mystery how they can be fitted alongside EB's resource system.

Still, it's not all that ahistorical: looking at China in EB's timeframe for example, we can see a state that was forged by a king and his prime minister (named Li Se) (who was the protege of an extraordinary wealthy merchant named Liu Pu-Wei). And remember that particular king involved gave China it's name.

Perhaps, those merchants can simply replace the various merchant hangers on in RTW?

[Anthony]

Definetly not regarding pagan religions.

For the Celts, religion was very important and as I recall it was heresy to introduce other gods into their pantheon. Any ruler would have to follow the "laws of the gods" and it seems the celts were more rigourous in seeing that it was really done too.
For the Greeks & Romans, they would probably identify other gods as their own, while other religions again I'm unsure off, but one reason the Ptolemies managed to survive for around 300 years was because they worshipped and built temples to the Egyptian deities.

As for how we will use the religions, we don't know yet and discussions will probably begin in more earnest when we know if MTW2 can be modded so that it will be worth the effort to mod EB2.

We hope religions & jihads can be used to represent migrations, but I'm betting it can be difficult.

Celts did allow a few foreign gods. Well, one really, of note, and that was Hercules, because, as the Greek myth of his heritage and such went, they were related to him. So, that's kind of a special case.

Of druids, their 'political' abilities lay solely in their religion. Celts were religiously inclined to listen to them. They had to. Because their religion was part of the political process, it gave them political power, but it was wholely derived from their religion. Also, mind that Celts in Greece had a prediliction toward temple robbing, but never did that to their own temples. It's a clear favoritism of their own religion. But religion is also more than the gods worshipped, it's also practices, which varied widely, and were made illegal at times, which did anger people greatly.

[Tellos Athenaios]

In M2TW you can have buildings make up part of your walls. Thus, perhaps, if the EB team can get it's hands on some skilled 3D modellers, there's a chance that it can actually realise realistic walls for the Khartadastim.