Medieval II Total War and EB2: suggestions for the team.

**Dumbass** · 11-28-2006, 18:09

Now what religions would there be for EB2? Would the Roamns follow the same religion as the greeks (Their religion was almost identical) or their own? Would there be different pagan religions or just all blended into one, like in Baba.

**Krusader** · 11-28-2006, 18:18

Originally Posted by Dumbass

Now what religions would there be for EB2? Would the Roamns follow the same religion as the greeks (Their religion was almost identical) or their own? Would there be different pagan religions or just all blended into one, like in Baba.

Definetly not regarding pagan religions.

For the Celts, religion was very important and as I recall it was heresy to introduce other gods into their pantheon. Any ruler would have to follow the "laws of the gods" and it seems the celts were more rigourous in seeing that it was really done too.
For the Greeks & Romans, they would probably identify other gods as their own, while other religions again I'm unsure off, but one reason the Ptolemies managed to survive for around 300 years was because they worshipped and built temples to the Egyptian deities.

As for how we will use the religions, we don't know yet and discussions will probably begin in more earnest when we know if MTW2 can be modded so that it will be worth the effort to mod EB2.

We hope religions & jihads can be used to represent migrations, but I'm betting it can be difficult.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 11-28-2006, 19:49

As for castles and such: you can't alter the tax rate, so it makes most sense to have them in regions with type 3 or 4 government buildings (to reflect both the fact that this region has to be able to defend itself on it's own and that the far off 'protector' imposes minimal 'government'/ law there). I'd suggest you keep their basic use the same as in M2TW, that is that of a 'military settlement'. So don't make castles a government type building, leave them as a different type of 'governors house' as they already are.

On the merchants topic: from what I have experienced, they're simply meant to be used abroad. You don't make much money having them standing on your own resources, they're far more profitable somewhere far away. Now point is that they're ideal agents to manipulate relations with and treasuries of other factions, since whatever they do it's not an act of war, but neither is it very pleasing to other factions. Since their use has been limitted to making money and 'eliminating' other merchants only, it's a bit of a mystery how they can be fitted alongside EB's resource system.

Still, it's not all that ahistorical: looking at China in EB's timeframe for example, we can see a state that was forged by a king and his prime minister (named Li Se) (who was the protege of an extraordinary wealthy merchant named Liu Pu-Wei). And remember that particular king involved gave China it's name.

Perhaps, those merchants can simply replace the various merchant hangers on in RTW?

**Anthony** · 11-29-2006, 00:55

Originally Posted by Krusader

Definetly not regarding pagan religions.

For the Celts, religion was very important and as I recall it was heresy to introduce other gods into their pantheon. Any ruler would have to follow the "laws of the gods" and it seems the celts were more rigourous in seeing that it was really done too.
For the Greeks & Romans, they would probably identify other gods as their own, while other religions again I'm unsure off, but one reason the Ptolemies managed to survive for around 300 years was because they worshipped and built temples to the Egyptian deities.

As for how we will use the religions, we don't know yet and discussions will probably begin in more earnest when we know if MTW2 can be modded so that it will be worth the effort to mod EB2.

We hope religions & jihads can be used to represent migrations, but I'm betting it can be difficult.

Celts did allow a few foreign gods. Well, one really, of note, and that was Hercules, because, as the Greek myth of his heritage and such went, they were related to him. So, that's kind of a special case.

Of druids, their 'political' abilities lay solely in their religion. Celts were religiously inclined to listen to them. They had to. Because their religion was part of the political process, it gave them political power, but it was wholely derived from their religion. Also, mind that Celts in Greece had a prediliction toward temple robbing, but never did that to their own temples. It's a clear favoritism of their own religion. But religion is also more than the gods worshipped, it's also practices, which varied widely, and were made illegal at times, which did anger people greatly.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 11-30-2006, 18:00

In M2TW you can have buildings make up part of your walls. Thus, perhaps, if the EB team can get it's hands on some skilled 3D modellers, there's a chance that it can actually realise realistic walls for the Khartadastim.

**JeffBag** · 12-05-2006, 16:29

But Copperhaired Berserker, Sicily/Palermo starts as a castle! I have never seen the AI convert between city and castles.

**Grimmy** · 12-07-2006, 03:20

The religion aspects of M2TW might be usable to show population's loyalty to culture/state?

A peoples religion was often either controled by, or exemplified by the state leaders of that day and age. Empire leaders were often, also somewhat chief priest and Gods appeaser.

So, wouldn't the "religion" as used in M2TW be a good marker for a population's general attitude toward cultural loyalty and "national" identity?

(Not sure what to use in place of "state" and "nation" since those are more modern concepts, if I understand such things properly)

If the answer is yes, then the "priest" unit can be used as a representative sent by the controling authority (Chief, Emperor, Senate, Council, whatever) to investigate local problems or settle civil disputes or address local concerns that are negatively affecting local feelings.
The heretics and witches could be used as agents provocaturs or rabble rousers that need to be put down.

**A living god** · 12-07-2006, 11:15

Change the population requirements so that Huge Cities are actually huge cities.
Population Requirement
Village -> Town 2,500
Town -> Large Town 8,000
Large Town -> City 20,000
City -> Large City 50,0000
Large City -> Huge City 120,000.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 12-07-2006, 16:38

Originally Posted by Grimmy

The religion aspects of M2TW might be usable to show population's loyalty to culture/state?

A peoples religion was often either controled by, or exemplified by the state leaders of that day and age. Empire leaders were often, also somewhat chief priest and Gods appeaser.

So, wouldn't the "religion" as used in M2TW be a good marker for a population's general attitude toward cultural loyalty and "national" identity?

(Not sure what to use in place of "state" and "nation" since those are more modern concepts, if I understand such things properly)

If the answer is yes, then the "priest" unit can be used as a representative sent by the controling authority (Chief, Emperor, Senate, Council, whatever) to investigate local problems or settle civil disputes or address local concerns that are negatively affecting local feelings.
The heretics and witches could be used as agents provocaturs or rabble rousers that need to be put down.

Yep, that's what post 1 is about.

Although, you have quite a different approach to 'priests' - nice.