The dissolution of the Union

[InsaneApache]

It looks as though Scotland will vote for independence and secede from the UK.

A majority of voters in both England and Scotland back the break-up of the United Kingdom, a poll has suggested.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6185652.stm

Good. I'm all for it. At last we (English) will have to be recognised as a nation, also no more English subsidies for our friends in the north.

Another interesting side effect will be no more Labour governments in England, their power base is after all north of the border. Oh....one more bonus. Mr 'grumpy' Brown, our pickpocketing Chancellor will have to bugger off back to Scotland (I would revoke his visa myself if I could ) and therefore would not be able to become the next Prime Minister.

So is it a good thing or bad thing?

[Sasaki Kojiro]

Well, we need their cotton so I guess we'll be backing Scotland in the war.

[scotchedpommes]

Good. I'm all for it. At last we (English) will have to be recognised as a nation, also no more English subsidies for our friends in the north.

Another interesting side effect will be no more Labour governments in England, their power base is after all north of the border. Oh....one more bonus. Mr 'grumpy' Brown, our pickpocketing Chancellor will have to bugger off back to Scotland (I would revoke his visa myself if I could ) and therefore would not be able to become the next Prime Minister.

So is it a good thing or bad thing?

Ah, feeling the love. I wouldn't treat those polls as definitive, and although it's
been clear that Labour's been going all out to try and visibly talk down the
Nationalist cause at the conference recently I'm not sure they'll have so much
to panic about.

That said, I'm undecided as yet. On the trivial side, it would be vaguely satisfying
to finally be done with the Tories, at least in their current form, and certainly
put an end to Malcolm's cause. What would you bang on about without Labour
though? Gasp.

[InsaneApache]

What would you bang on about without Labour
though? Gasp.

The Lib-Dems.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm not too bothered either way. We'll both be part of the EU, so people will be able to move freely between the countries and work wherever they want, so if the Scots want to go to all of the trouble of setting up their own currency, government agencies, all the other country stuff, as well as losing their sizeable English subsidies, then so be it. Of course, if they wanted to stay I'd be equally happy that way.

[KukriKhan]

Would this be a "domino effect" thingee? First Scotland, then Wales, then N.I.? Or would Scotland claim stewardship over N.I. ?

How do the Royals figure into this equation? Isn't it a "unified" crown? Or was that just a parliament-passed law?

To follow Sasaki Kojiro's idea: which of the four (Eng, Scot, Wales, NI) has more oil?

[Pannonian]

Would this be a "domino effect" thingee? First Scotland, then Wales, then N.I.? Or would Scotland claim stewardship over N.I. ?

How do the Royals figure into this equation? Isn't it a "unified" crown? Or was that just a parliament-passed law?

To follow Sasaki Kojiro's idea: which of the four (Eng, Scot, Wales, NI) has more oil?

England has the most MPs, who represent more grease than the North Sea could ever produce. That said, I've heard reports that the politicians north of the border are even more useless than those in Westminster.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Heh, there is no way Wales would ever become independant of England. We have no economy to speak of.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Heh, there is no way Wales would ever become independant of England. We have no economy to speak of.

Historically, that little practicality thing has rarely stood in the way of a good separatist movement -- only gets in the way once you realize you now have a country to run.

[ezrider]

Without government money Northern Ireland would have 50% unemployment. A lot of people work for the council, the DOE, the civil service or another government backed inst.

I wonder what the loyalist will make of this:

A majority of voters in both England and Scotland back the break-up of the United Kingdom, a poll has suggested.

England: "we don't want you anymore, piss off you paddy ********!"
The loyalists: "We can't hear you, *covers ears* lalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalalala", "God save our gracious Queen ....."
identity melt down in 10, 9, 8 ..... Boooooom!

[Grey_Fox]

If Scotland seccedes from the Union all it will do is prove is that the majority of voters are morons. Scotland has gained more from the Union than any other nation. It was the driving force behind English expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries, just look at the number of Scots in parliament and on the boards of the East and West India Companies. It has not much of an economy and it shows when the biggest employer is the civil service. That's what happens when school history courses are changed.

[spmetla]

So you guys would be getting rid of St. Andrews cross in the Union Jack then, correct?

[scotchedpommes]

Oh, let's deal with the important issues, yes.

[drone]

FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOM!!!!!!

[Mikeus Caesar]

Muppets.

Let them secede from us. They'll be begging to rejoin after a few years, when the country is limping along and on the brink of bankruptcy.

Scottish don't know how well they've had it in the Union. They'll only realise once they leave, i suppose.

[King Henry V]

It would be very nice to be free of all those unintelligeable Labour politicians. However, I think we have far too much shared history that I think it would be a shame for a complete dissolution of the United Kingdom. I think the best solution would be like that modelled on Austria-Hungary: common defence, foreign and customs policy, but with otherwise complete internal independence for Scotland and England (Wales can remain England's bitch ) and a personal union between the two countries represented by the monarch.

[Templar Knight]

What will happen to the armed forces? The SAS is made of 65-75% Scots

[BDC]

What will happen to the armed forces? The SAS is made of 65-75% Scots

England has always employed foreigners...

When the oil money runs out, Scots-guard money will play a big role in the Scottish economy. :)

They can be like Gurkhas. Get the most dangerous jobs and a crappy pension.

[GoreBag]

How do the Royals figure into this equation? Isn't it a "unified" crown? Or was that just a parliament-passed law?

It was unified, but ceased to be before the Acts of Union. I doubt that a newly 'indepedent' Scotland would bother with a monarchy after separation.

Anyway, Scotland, go for it. Better late than never.

[Duke Malcolm]

So you guys would be getting rid of St. Andrews cross in the Union Jack then, correct?

Assuming there remained a King/Queen of Great Britain, the Union Jack would remain. Failing that, the Union Jack would cease to be.

I am split over the matter. The only way Scotland could do well after the Union is if it adopted a small government with a free market, Adam Smith style. Unfortunately, the majority of parties would rather see a furthering of the People's Glorious and Free Republic of Scotland. For which we certainly have not got the money, let alone could we afford this £100 billion well of money proposed by the SNP from oil revenues.

And Heaven Forfend Scotland ends up a republic. No doubt the Party would like that ("Oah yes, all the Queen's dosh into Scottish coffers"). Of course, the only thing that would come to Scotland thereafter would be the Palace of Holyroodhouse while the Balmoral Estate would remain the private property of Her Majesty the Queen (of England and Her Other Realms and Territories).

As for the matter of the shared history of Scotland and England, that is the whole reason behind this apparent rise in nationalism. It is history. The Empire died in the past 60 years. It was once a shared child of this Island, providing a common struggle for it. Now it is no longer. People have no reason to stay. And since democracy is all the rage now, what People want People get...

[Aenlic]

Interesting that none of you have speculated on the issue of who would get to keep the North Sea oil? It seems to be a little arrogant to just assume that England would get to keep the rigs and production facilities, hmmm? I think that this single issue alone is enough to keep Scotland and England united. Neither one can afford to do without the oil.

[Duke Malcolm]

Interesting that none of you have speculated on the issue of who would get to keep the North Sea oil? It seems to be a little arrogant to just assume that England would get to keep the rigs and production facilities, hmmm? I think that this single issue alone is enough to keep Scotland and England united. Neither one can afford to do without the oil.

Scotland would get the oil, it is on Scottish territorial waters, methinks. The companies would keep the rigs.

[King Henry V]

Interesting that none of you have speculated on the issue of who would get to keep the North Sea oil? It seems to be a little arrogant to just assume that England would get to keep the rigs and production facilities, hmmm? I think that this single issue alone is enough to keep Scotland and England united. Neither one can afford to do without the oil.

Well the oil is running out you know....

[Louis VI the Fat]

No! This would spell the end of the UK and leave Europe a weak and divided Britain! We must not cater to seccesionist illusions and halt this development at once and...

*ponders*




...UK...weak...divided...

[Kralizec]

Would a seperated Scotland continue as a member of the Commonwealth? How republican are the Scots generally?

Also, can someone fill me in on the whole "devolution" thing? As I understand it, Scots have a parliament exclusively for themselves (and similar things planned for the Welsh and N.Irish) while the English don't as they have to share parliament with the Scots?

[InsaneApache]

Scotland would get the oil, it is on Scottish territorial waters, methinks. The companies would keep the rigs.

Ok Malcolm two things.

It's the Union Flag, not the Union Jack. You of all should know better.

As for the oil thingy.....a little re-drawing of the international maritime boundaries......

As if we'd let the Scots keep all that money....this is Blair after all....

[Duke Malcolm]

Would a seperated Scotland continue as a member of the Commonwealth? How republican are the Scots generally?

I do not know. It would certainly be a member of the Commonwealth, just as England would be. I don't know about the Monarchy. Many see them as the "English" Royal Family, and might be done away with after the Union. I don't think that there are many who are specifically republican and would prefer an elected president, but we can hardly offer the throne to the Duke of Bavaria...

[Vladimir]

I think the best solution would be like that modelled on Austria-Hungary: common defence, foreign and customs policy, but with otherwise complete internal independence for Scotland and England (Wales can remain England's bitch ) and a personal union between the two countries represented by the monarch.

I think that's called a civil union in the US, as apposed to marriage of course .

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

I'm not sure the oil is too big a factor. Even with it taken into account, there is still a net flow of money out of London and the South East towards Scotland.

The split would be financially beneficial for England. Not that that means it's a good idea, of course. Perhaps proper federalism would satisfy both parties?

[King Henry V]

I guess they could always invite over a real Scot to become King of Scotland:
Franz, Duke of Bavaria, heir of Bonnie Prince Charlie.