An idea about Naval Battles

**oudysseos** · 11-27-2006, 13:20

I know that this topic has been flogged before, but I have been wondering about possible ways to portray ship battles that you could actually fight as opposed to auto-resolve.

This is a question, not a suggestion or an "I need this..."

Basically, would it be possible to have a battle on water where each ship, with all of its rowers and marines, is one unit, i.e. one animation? I put it that way because I recall that when this topic was raised before, the biggest problem seemed to be how to turn a ram or siege tower into a ship and how to use the seperate unit of soldiers with it. If the ship and soldiers were one unit, like the archers on an elephant or chariot, then would it be easier? My thinking can be broken down as follows;

1. Water exists on battlemaps already: men can fall into it and drown or swim.
2. Take a swimming unit, make it look like a ship with people on it. Could you not then manoeuver it and fight with it?
3. Primary attack = ramming secondary attack = marines boarding (they couldn't actually do so I know) or perhpaps a secondary attack should be a missle attack- bows for smaller ships and catapults/ballistae for larger ones.
4. The fact that rough seas and storms probably can't be modeled isn't much of a problem as sea battles didn't take place during storms: it's actually realistic to have sea battle only taking place during periods of calm flat seas. I rowed the reconstructed trireme Olympias in 1989 and it was pretty tippy in any kind of sea. Also very cramped and smelled bad.
5. would require 5 or 6 unit slots, maybe. Bireme Trireme Ligurian Quinquereme.
6. Might only be possible for custom battles. Would still be fun.

Am I bonkers? PLease remember that this is a feasibility question and not a 'Put this in 0.8' question.

Related issue- is it possible to stop armies being transported by warships? Putting a full stack onto a squadron of triremes doesn't seem very historical to me: during the Civil War didn't Caesar have to commandeer civilian transport to cross the Adriatic? And triremes didn't have a lot of extra room on them. Or perhaps I am mistaken.

**Chuffy** · 11-27-2006, 13:49

No, this isn't possible at all.

Its been tried before.

**spirit_of_rob** · 11-27-2006, 14:06

Put simply what can be accomplished with regard to naval battles is not worth the huge amount of effort you have to put into it.

**khelvan** · 11-27-2006, 14:21

No naval battles, sorry. I don't think you'll see any in MTW2 either.

**MSB** · 11-30-2006, 20:24

Originally Posted by khelvan

No naval battles, sorry. I don't think you'll see any in M2TW either.

Medieval

However if it is more moddable then perhaps it could be done.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 11-30-2006, 21:53

Well, it's not. For now you can't even mod the text files, as the packs involved can't yet be properly extracted by anyone without the CA tools.

The only thing you can actually read/alter properly after unpacking the files in the way that is possible, are files that refer to hardcoded stuff like fonts.

The one thing really good about M2TW, not related to the game itself, is the manual. Containing ridiculous extra info and/or extra warnings such as:

Handle the game discs with care to prevent scratches or dirt on either side of the discs. Do not bend the discs or enlarge their centre holes.

And that's just before page 1: fun to read, eh?

**Zenith Darksea** · 12-01-2006, 17:34

Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios

The one thing really good about M2TW, not related to the game itself, is the manual. Containing ridiculous extra info and/or extra warnings such as:

Handle the game discs with care to prevent scratches or dirt on either side of the discs. Do not bend the discs or enlarge their centre holes

And that's just before page 1: fun to read, eh?

Can we at least attach spikes to them and use them as shuriken?

**-Praetor-** · 12-01-2006, 17:47

Originally Posted by Zenith Darksea

Can we at least attach spikes to them and use them as shuriken?

I think that the obvious use of them is to sharpen the edges of it and use them as a predator disk.

**Dumbass** · 12-01-2006, 18:22

Wait, does that mean I can't play frisbee with my dog?

**Arbaces** · 12-01-2006, 18:36

The only problem which I think would break the theory would be units not being able to fight while swiming. So, it would be necessary through scripting to spawn battles from a custom set whenever a naval battle takes place, on a hidden place on the map with a certain new climate (unreacheable otherwise), with battlefield textures which would fake the water. The water would still not move (will be 2d, you won't see it transparent or with waves on it). Naval battles are 100% possible but they require a titanic work if you want them at least decent. Everybody from scripters to skinners and modellers would need to do real work on it.

Arbaces.

**oudysseos** · 12-01-2006, 20:17

Fair enough. Makes me wonder why CA haven't done it for M2TW.

**Ludens** · 12-01-2006, 21:09

The problem is that a naval battle is not just a land battle on a choppy, blue field. To create realistic naval battles you need to factor in the weather, the wind, the waterflow, the effect of fires; in other words: far more advanced physics than either R:TW or M2:TW can offer. Your proposal has merrit, but I'd rather have no naval battles at all than unrealistic ones.

**spirit_of_rob** · 12-01-2006, 21:40

Originally Posted by oudysseos

Fair enough. Makes me wonder why CA haven't done it for M2TW.

They said a while ago they didnt want to put naval games in until they could do everything they wanted grapnels boarding actions etc etc

**Tellos Athenaios** · 12-02-2006, 00:56

And wasn't there the "after some of those battles it's always 'oh, no here we go again' feeling" bit that made CA not to overly keen on adding it to their games? Especially since you'd have few tactics and few formations possible. Most would be boarding, slaughtering, getting the hell outta here, and repeating that n times, would it not? And, after some time, even the most eye candy and realism addicted player would want some sort of true gameplay, wouldn't he/she?