Keeping the Holy Lands...

**Lord Condormanius** · 11-27-2006, 18:38

I usually keep them (for tax purposes) until they are just about to revolt. Then I tear down all the buildings (except the Catholic Church, if there is one) and give the region to the Pope. Papal standing goes through the roof and now they are stuck managing a revolting city, which they will probably lose and call another crusade on.

**lars573** · 11-27-2006, 18:41

Cheating for money is a great thing, keeps the holy land yours.

**Lord Condormanius** · 11-27-2006, 18:48

Originally Posted by lars573

Cheating for money is a great thing, keeps the holy land yours.

I would have to disagree. While it may allow you more money, it is 'cheating' after all and subtracts from the overall challenge of the game. It doesn't take a genius to cheat to win. Anybody can do it. I may be wrong, but I think the poster was looking for sugestions on how to deal with the Holy Land regions that didn't involve a windfall profit from nothing.

I just think cheating in a game like this is pointless.

**Musashi** · 11-27-2006, 18:53

I've never seen the Egyptians or Turks field an army that actually worried me. Just stuff any holy land conquests with free upkeep militia units and let them try to take it.

**Jacque Schtrapp** · 11-27-2006, 18:53

Originally Posted by Lord Condormanius

I usually keep them (for tax purposes) until they are just about to revolt. Then I tear down all the buildings (except the Catholic Church, if there is one) and give the region to the Pope. Papal standing goes through the roof and now they are stuck managing a revolting city, which they will probably lose and call another crusade on.

That is pretty humorous. I took Antioch in a crusade in my Spanish game and couldn't afford to hold it, so I devised a profitable exit strategy. I left two crusader spear units to hold the city and then took the rest of the army and sacked Aleppo. I left Aleppo undefended and marched on and sacked Damascus, then Acre, and finally Jerusalem. Without about 75k in the ole treasury, I marched what was left of my forces back to Antioch (sacking Acre again along the way) and picked up the two crusader spear units from Antioch, which was only a turn or two away from boiling over with rebellion, and then marched onwards to the sea and hired a mercenary ship to ferry my men over to Rhodes which I captured and turned into my advance post for when I return and am serious about holding the Holy Lands. I left the region in shambles from both a population and economic standpoint. I'm sure the locals will not be even a tad bit polite to anyone sporting a spanish flag or a christian cross in the future

**ScrapTower** · 11-27-2006, 19:04

Yes cheating is not what I had in mind. Yes the Egyptians are quite easy to handle in moderation but they do tend to call a Jihad, and thats when you need the full stack. I have also pondered sacking all the settlements and leaving the Holy Lands in shambles. Im sure this is quite lucrative. I just need to get it out of my head that I need to hold them so early. A quick profitable crusade and im out. I shall return!

**CrownOfSwords** · 11-27-2006, 19:10

I managed to keep Jerusalem under control for quite awhile playing as the Scottish. But it is hard to fend off Islam. But my view on cheating, after about my 8th campaign i decided I was going to cheat as the Spanish and just rush through the campaign so I can FINALLY go to the new world. Well it started off that way i took all of what is now Spain, but I began to realize that the AI was pushing out some extremely large armies. I believe the add money cheat gives the computers money also, I have found myself in a 3 way war Spain vs Milan vs Denmark involving many many full stacks of units. So much for rushing to the new world..

**ScrapTower** · 11-27-2006, 19:23

Nice tips Flavius Gonzo. Thats pretty much how I've been playing it out. I *could* keep the Holy Lands but it would be as posted before, a long term investment. It would open up early trade with the Mediterranean sea, and a castle in the east would provide a base to project my power. Im starting to lean towards a slash and burn first crusade, for stats and profit only. I want to keep them, and I would make the investment, but not at the cost of slowing my massive building efforts going on in England.

**Somebody Else** · 11-27-2006, 19:16

It shouldn't be too hard to take both the castle type settlements next to Jerusalem, or indeed the two near Antioch as well. These are much more amenable to being ruled - not quite so much unrest, plus they provide a handy base from which to go and sack Jerusalem/Antioch whenever they happen to revolt, providing a rather handy cash injection.

When it comes to dominating an area of the map, that's what castles are for, so take them and dominate. Forget about the cities, they're just there to provide money. Don't get hung up on maintaining public order, this isn't some namby-pamby social service game... The people are there to be exploited, in any way possible.

**ScrapTower** · 11-27-2006, 19:30

Originally Posted by Somebody Else

It shouldn't be too hard to take both the castle type settlements next to Jerusalem, or indeed the two near Antioch as well. These are much more amenable to being ruled - not quite so much unrest, plus they provide a handy base from which to go and sack Jerusalem/Antioch whenever they happen to revolt, providing a rather handy cash injection.

When it comes to dominating an area of the map, that's what castles are for, so take them and dominate. Forget about the cities, they're just there to provide money. Don't get hung up on maintaining public order, this isn't some namby-pamby social service game... The people are there to be exploited, in any way possible.

Right On!

Keep the castles, burn the cities, milk the Egyptians, take the cities when your ready.

**Flavius Gonzo** · 11-27-2006, 19:04

My first crusade was Antioch in my English H/H campaign. I *barely* managed to hang on to it, but after maybe 12 turns or so, it's finally to the point where I can move my general out of the city without a revolt. Anyway here's some tips, and also some more questions (my 2nd crusade, this time Jerusalem, just started.)

1) If you don't have a full stack and can't afford to hire crusader mercs, definitely at least hire several units of pilgrims -- even post-crusade their upkeep is only 90 a turn, so they're useful for getting your public order due to garrison up to the max. Sending 2 stacks, with the 2nd loaded with pilgrims seems to be an even better idea.

2) Don't even think of occupying a crusaded settlement, definitely sack or exterminate. (Question though: my first successful crusader general went from a nobody to a heavyweight overnight after the crusade, especially his chivalry stat... if I would have exterminated instead of sacking the city, would he have gained a dread stat and hence lost a chivalry stat? Depending on the answer to this question, I think extermination might be an even better bet.)

3) BRING PRIESTS with your crusade. Spies/Assassins are also very helpful to your public order because they can rid the city of enemy spies which seem to hurt public order.

4) Once you've occupied the first two buildings you build should be the first two levels of churches. Religious unrest is the biggest problem to getting an islamic city under control.

5) Don't be afraid to spend money hiring mercs to garrison the city if it helps public order. I consider holding the city a long term investment, so it's worth it in the short run to spend at an abnormally high rate there.

6) Finally, if it looks like you'll have to endure a turn or two of unrest, move everyone except your spear and town militia out of the city walls. That way, revolts don't damage your better units which can't be replenished easily.

And if anyone can lend any info on what happens trait-wise to an exterminating general, I'd love to hear it... it will be useful to know what I should do with Jerusalem if my 2nd crusade succeeds.